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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Policy › How can we get polygraphs banned for employment

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How can we get polygraphs banned for employment (Read 13155 times)

PolygraphisBS New User Offline Posts: 1 Joined: Apr 26^th, 2014	How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Apr 26^th, 2014 at 4:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Are there any petitions going on where their goal is to ban polygraph tests for employment purposes?


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #1 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 6:00pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I'm afraid that any petition to ban polygraphy from the workplace will be ignored. A decade ago, AntiPolygraph.org sponsored an online petition calling for an end to polygraph screening, but it had no noticeable effect. We've since taken it offline. I'm reluctant to endorse any new petition against polygraph screening because I fear it would used to create a watch list like the one federal investigators created from Doug Williams' business records. So long as the mistaken public perception persists that polygraphy "works," and that more polygraphs = more security, I think it will be difficult for any politician to embrace polygraph reform for fear of being attacked as "soft on security." Thus, I think that what we most need at this stage is public education. All of us can help by doing what we can to tell others about the shortcomings of polygraphy and why reliance on it is bad not only for individuals, but also for our collective security. Remember that spies and serial killers have beaten the polygraph. By spreading the truth about polygraphy, we can help to create a climate where voicing support for polygraph screening invites scorn and ridicule.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #2 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 11:21am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 6:00pm: Thus, I think that what we most need at this stage is public education Public education is almost always a good idea. George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 6:00pm: Remember that spies and serial killers have beaten the polygraph. A true statement, as far as it goes, some have, but some have not.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #3 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:57pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 11:21am: A true statement, as far as it goes, some have, but some have not. Your statement could also be applied to those who have been falsely accused. Polygraph operators gloat when they are able to extract admissions, but seem indifferent to the damage caused by their false positives.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #4 - Apr 28^th, 2014 at 10:42pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 11:21am: Public education is almost always a good idea. I hope you will put this into practice and advise all of your clients to peruse this website to ensure a balanced deliberation prior to committing to your services as a polygraph operator.


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #5 - Apr 29^th, 2014 at 12:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Arkhangelsk I have recommended this site to clients for several years, as it is far and away, the most complete resource for polygraph information. I have been at this more than thirty years and I have yet to meet an examiner who was indifferent to false positives. A constant refrain from your side, but I honestly have not found that to be the case.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #6 - Apr 29^th, 2014 at 8:24pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 12:08pm: Arkhangelsk I have recommended this site to clients for several years, as it is far and away, the most complete resource for polygraph information. I have been at this more than thirty years and I have yet to meet an examiner who was indifferent to false positives. A constant refrain from your side, but I honestly have not found that to be the case. So you tell the people that you are going to "polygraph" to read THE LIE BEHIND THE LIE DETECTOR before you test them?

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #7 - Apr 30^th, 2014 at 4:09pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 12:08pm: I have been at this more than thirty years and I have yet to meet an examiner who was indifferent to false positives. This is very touching, a kinder softer side to polygraph operators. Perhaps some examinees can share their experiences where the polygraph operator exhibited concern and empathy while falsely accusing them of lying.


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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #8 - Apr 30^th, 2014 at 6:27pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Apr 30^th, 2014 at 4:09pm: pailryder wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 12:08pm: I have been at this more than thirty years and I have yet to meet an examiner who was indifferent to false positives. This is very touching, a kinder softer side to polygraph operators. Perhaps some examinees can share their experiences where the polygraph operator exhibited concern and empathy while falsely accusing them of lying. I have been in the polygraph business (both pro and con) for over forty years, and I have NEVER seen any polygraph thug show ANY remorse for falsely branding people as liars! Quite the opposite - I have heard them brag about it! There are many police departments - and other agencies - who hire private polygraphers to administer their "tests". I have heard them brag about running fifty tests to fill five job openings. They have a financial incentive to fail as many people as they can! "False positives" = big pay checks! So please Pailface - no bullshit stories about polygraph thugs crying crocodile tears for their victims...

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #9 - May 7^th, 2014 at 6:58pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	This is what I have been advocating for almost forty years! I have always said that one of the best ways to stop the use of the polygraph is to sue the hell out of the polygraph thugs who abuse people with it. Here is one attorney, Mr. Gene Iredale, who just chalked up a BIG W for the victims who have been abused by the practitioners of this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture incorrectly referred to as a "lie detector". Polygraph operators, read it and weep! Polygraph victims, read it and rejoice! http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/07/4103242/dea-settles-suit-alleging-governme...

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #10 - May 7^th, 2014 at 7:27pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thanks for pointing this out Doug, IMHO it's monumental. The DEA contractors had a legal case because their jobs were not covered by the EPPA's exceptions. One important point that comes to mind, that while the EPPA does allow certain agencies to use polygraphy in their screening process, there is nothing which gives the polygraph operators free reign--making decisions based upon their whim and prejudices, not making the charts publicly available for unbiased scrutiny etc. I think their abuses could be effectively challenged in court despite the EPPA exceptions. I hope George may reach out to Mr. Gene Iredale Esq. and invite him to peruse this website and read the postings of the polygraph operators here and in the compromised polygraph forum as well. I have no doubt, it would give impetus to possible future litigation to hold the charlatans accountable. $500,000 is not lunch money--the judgement is arguably a chink in the armor.


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Drew Richardson Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 427 Joined: Sep 7^th, 2001	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #11 - May 8^th, 2014 at 2:17pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	This truly is potentially colossal! The implications for the greater issue (well beyond polygraph examinations administered to federal contractors) of all polygraph screening are inescapable. Every victim (and potential future examinee) of polygraph screening should be seeking legal advice. Those who have caused damage and harm through polygraph screening have been put on notice a very long time ago. Damages will likely be extensive...


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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #12 - May 8^th, 2014 at 2:57pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Drew Richardson wrote on May 8^th, 2014 at 2:17pm: This truly is potentially colossal! The implications for the greater issue (well beyond polygraph examinations administered to federal contractors) of all polygraph screening are inescapable. Every victim (and potential future examinee) of polygraph screening should be seeking legal advice. Those who have caused damage and harm through polygraph screening have been put on notice a very long time ago. Damages will likely be extensive... Drew: I fervently hope you are right! I have been saying the actions of the polygraph operators were grounds for a lawsuit for 35 years! I hope EVERY victim will finally be made whole and this insidious industry will be destroyed!

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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Drew Richardson Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 427 Joined: Sep 7^th, 2001	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #13 - May 8^th, 2014 at 2:58pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	In addition to numerous informal conversations with my various bosses at the FBI occurring some 10 to 15 years before, the FBI was very clearly and officially made aware of the shortcomings of polygraph screening with my testimony before the U.S. Senate in September of 1997. (https://antipolygraph.org/hearings/senate-judiciary-1997/richardson-statement.sh...) It will be most interesting to see how the Bureau proceeds with polygraph screening following the news of this thread…
	« Last Edit: May 8^th, 2014 at 3:57pm by Drew Richardson »

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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: How can we get polygraphs banned for employment Reply #14 - May 8^th, 2014 at 3:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Drew Richardson wrote on May 8^th, 2014 at 2:58pm: In addition to numerous informal conversations with my various bosses at the FBI occurring some 10 to 15 years before, the FBI was very clearly made aware of the shortcomings of polygraph screening with my testimony before the U.S. Senate in September of 1997. https://antipolygraph.org/hearings/senate-judiciary-1997/richardson-statement.sh... It will be most interesting to see how the Bureau proceeds with polygraph screening following the news of this thread… Your testimony was dynamic, and the powers that be were clearly warned. I also testified in the U.S. Congress in support of the EPPA and pointed out the abuse in my testimony http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011381806;view=1up;seq=281 They have known for decades that this abuse was occurring, but they callously continued it. Hopefully this will be the beginning of the end.

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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