Bill_Brown

I am certainly not frustrated by the stupid post of people like polyboy1. As you have noticed, I'm sure, there has been no confirmation or retraction. There never is. Statements like polyboy1's and much worse have been made about George primarily, including treason. When they are challenged, there is NEVER any confirmation or retraction. Stupid is as stupid does. If I was in George's shoes, the lawsuits would flow.

Nope, I'm not frustraded. Maybe joyed that this website is enough of a problem to polygraphers that it makes some of them show their ass.

Question to you. Have you learned that the one machine - one operator decision has ruined the LE employment life of many truthful applicants?

Still not frustrated. Just angry.

Quote:

That would do nicely. Please provide it.

There are many who post lies here and then do as you just did: "if you don't believe me, screw you." This is very infantile and totally incongruent with someone who is supposedly an instructor responsible for producing experts. Nobody here can spend time to validate your preposterous claims, it is up to you to give them provenance if you hope to build any credibility.

The truth adds up and fits, lies are awkward and disjointed. Quite frankly, your claims don't add up. First of all, you should only use "training aids" where you can be certain countermeasures were attempted. As George already told you, he did not use countermeasures. Moreover, properly executed countermeasures are impossible to detect, so such a technique cannot be taught, especially by someone with such a neanderthal-like demeanor.

Dear Readers,

I find it amazing at this point that the proponents of polygraph truly believe in their craft. This country will never understand the true costs of applicants who lost federal careers due to the collateral damage of "false positives." As long as polygraph examiners have their careers that make them money they are very happy to live with collateral damage. That is the price of doing business with the federal government if you want to apply for a job. Mark my words, the time of plentiful federal employee applicants willing to roll-the-dice just to get a job will be ending by about August of 2014. Yes, it will take that much time for the economy to recover and provide a reasonable amount of jobs that employers will have to compete for qualified employees who can pass most background checks.

Combine a two year wage freeze which might be extended by three more years with increased pension contributions, increased health payment deductions, shifting of high-three to high five annuity calculations and the perfect storm is going to be created in filling federal jobs.

Imagine a new FBI agent who is told that the law-enforcement pension has been done away with, the extra 25% law enforcement availability pay has been done away with, and they have to put up with passing a polygraph with yearly financial detailed disclosures for a GS-11 pay grade.  Good luck getting a new applicant for a "Special Agent" position.  You would have to be very "Special" or desperate to apply for a job like that.

If anyone thinks I am exaggerating,  they have not been keeping up with OPM, GSA, recent Congressional acts and proposals.  Passing a polygraph will be the least of any applicant coordinator's problem when they have no qualified applicants in about three years.

Regards.

Bill_Brown

I, and I think the majority of posters, respects your opinion of the polygraph and would go along with an additional BI. However, our national security agencies and most other LE agencies don't hold with your advocacy. Apparently they use it in place of BI's. I believe this is wrong and it's what I rail against. If all polygraphers held your beliefs, there would be less use for this website. There have been entirely too many horrow stories posted here and they all can't be false stories.

Sergeant 1107:  you make a good case, but sorry, no sale.  We do use charts from those who have admitted using CMs, but we also use those from cases where there is absolutely no doubt that they were employed.  Funny you should mention that we should use confirmed cases, since this site professes that CMs can't be detected.  Of course George M has always denied using CMs during his two polygraph exams, and he's not going to confess now, after more than  10 years;  it certainly would not help his credibility after all these years.  The majority of those who do, won't admit it, but that doesn't mean they didn't.  It just means it's not a confirmed case.  I suspect you are LE, so let me ask you, when you interrogate a suspect, and he denies involvement in the crime, do you simply take his word?  I wouldn't think so.  Same logic here.  However, we do take appropriate counter-countermeasures to confirm our suspicions, and when they are confirmed, it's a good bet CMs were employed (whether the subject confesses or not).  Again, having myself seen George M's charts, there's no doubt in my mind about his use of CMs.  Nor in the minds of everyone I have talked to who have also seen them.  CMs have been used long before Geoege M came along; I have no doubt some were successful, others were not.  However, polygraph technology has come a long way in the last decade, and we now have more tools to fight CMs than we did in years past.

A larger point re polyboy1 (Guest)'s misinformation - 

The countermeasure info in "The lie behind the lie detector" remains good. 

See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19543828. Respiration CMs change SCR (skin conductance), which is the measure most polygraphers rely primarily/exclusively on. They are not detectable.

pailryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

Pailryder, you are kind of silent for being Polyboy1's partner in all of this. Please elaborate for us about your experiences with George's charts and how you surmised that he was using countermeasures.