Normal Topic another question?? (Read 10132 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box rawform
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 15
Joined: Sep 22nd, 2010
another question??
Jun 29th, 2011 at 1:24am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm a bit confused; do I need to combine a breathing pattern 'with' a mental countermeasure or do I just pick one countermeasure? The way it sounds I have to combine breathing with one of the other types of countermeasures, and if I combine all the countermeasures it would be over kill. Please clarify for me, Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box rawform
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 15
Joined: Sep 22nd, 2010
Re: another question??
Reply #1 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 8:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
hey fokes just looken for a little clarification on the steps to take in order to prevent a false positive. A response would be greatly appreciated. thanks Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Chuckles
User
**
Offline


Polygraph Survivor

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar 17th, 2011
Gender: Male
Breathing and countermeasures
Reply #2 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 9:32pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Good question rawform,

There are two types of breathing that you are going to want to practice before going to the polygraph. There is your "normal" breathing, a constant pattern of a breath every 2-4 seconds. The normal breathing is probably going to be a bit shallower and tiny bit faster than your actual normal breathing.

During the polygraph examination you will talk to the examiner for a while without any sensors hooked up to your body and then eventually it becomes time to get hooked up. One of the things he will hook you up to will be a breathing monitor. He will hook up a long springy wire around your chest - it reminded me of the old cords that used to connect telephone handsets to the base before we got cordless phones. From the very moment he hooks that cord around your chest, to the moment he unhooks you at the end of the test you are going to be counting and controlling your breaths. You want to have a very steady breathing pattern on the machine. 

Before the test - breathe your set pattern
During irrelevant questions - breathe your pattern
During relevant questions - breathe your pattern

The only time you should alter your breathing pattern is when you are asked a "control question." This is a time to make it appear that you are stressed by the question, so you will augment your response. There are several suggestions for how to alter your breathing pattern in "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector." After using the altered breathing pattern for a few seconds, go back to your "normal" breathing pattern. 

When a polygraph examiner is looking at the results from his test he will notice that every time he asked you a relevant question (such as: "Did you steal the money?") He will notice that you kept right on breathing normally after you answered, as if the question did not bother you at all. And when comparing it to the way you answered your control questions (such as: "Did you ever lie to a loved one?") he will notice that you did respond to that question more. He will conclude that you are more worried about possible lies to loved ones than you are about stealing the money and will say that he did not detect any deception, and you probably did not steal the money.

Just remember - breathing is important, but there are other augmentations that you should use along with the breathing to enhance your response to control questions, such as thinking scary thoughts, biting your tongue, imagining an awful scenario (like getting stabbed! yikes!). These augmentations will make your pulse, blood pressure, skin sweat etc have more noticable spikes with the control questions than with the relavent questions, which is how we get a non-deceptive result. 

Here is a story I wrote in the post-conviction polygraph section talking about how I used breathing and other countermeasures to pass my polygraph:

https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1300331378

I wish you the best of luck with your test. Keep on studying "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector," and this website. Remember that some of the people on this site are polygraph examiners themselves. They make a living lying to people everyday about how they have a 98% accuracy level and 20 years experience working for the CIA or whatever. Half the battle is learning not to listen to their manipulations and threatening bullshit. I love that video where the guy hooks a copy machine up to the person and tricks them into thinking that his lies are being exposed. (It's on the front page of https://antipolygraph.org/ ). That is essentially what a polygraph machine is, no wonder so many polygraphers get angry when their secretes are pointed out.


  

Chuckles
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: another question??
Reply #3 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 11:00pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Rawform, what kind of polygraph exam are you anticipating?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box rawform
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 15
Joined: Sep 22nd, 2010
Re: another question??
Reply #4 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 12:44am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I dont want to say what its for at this time, but I will say it is most likely a probable lie test . I have no reason to lie but I also know that polygraphs are not scientific and  I would hate to fail because I didnt educate myself.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: another question??
Reply #5 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 12:52am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
rawform wrote on Jun 30th, 2011 at 12:44am:
I would hate to fail because I didnt educate myself.

You seem to know a lot already. I have spoken to many new people and they never used "false positive" or "probable lie." I'm very impressed at how quickly you have picked up these terms.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box rawform
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 15
Joined: Sep 22nd, 2010
Re: another question??
Reply #6 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 5:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
stefano, 
thank you, I've actually read TLBTLD about 4 times and I've read chapters 3 and 4 six times now. my confusion when trying to understand everything is if breathing alone will be enough, just wanted to clarily if a mental countermeasure and modifying my breathing at the same time is the right thing to do. for a while I thought modifying my breathing was going to be enough. Ill keep on practicing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: another question??
Reply #7 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 6:29pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
rawform wrote on Jun 30th, 2011 at 5:25am:
for a while I thought modifying my breathing was going to be enough.

I would recommend finding the proper "suite" of CMs which feel most natural to you. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box rawform
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 15
Joined: Sep 22nd, 2010
Re: another question??
Reply #8 - Jul 4th, 2011 at 4:31pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Thank you stefano,
I have another question regarding my breathing. Upon practicing I am concerned that my breathing pattern might be to deep. what kind of breathing pattern would be considered to deep? I find it necessary for me to have a breathing pattern that involves an almost normal inhalation of breath if I don’t fill my lungs with enough air it is to difficult to recover after deploying the countermeasure breath. It seems the only way I can recover comfortably from the countermeasure is if my breathing pattern is close to normal which I'm concerned might be too deep. I am not taking large breaths and my breathing pattern is within the 15 to 30 breaths. What is too deep?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: another question??
Reply #9 - Jul 5th, 2011 at 4:07am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
rawform wrote on Jul 4th, 2011 at 4:31pm:
I have another question regarding my breathing. Upon practicing I am concerned that my breathing pattern might be to deep. what kind of breathing pattern would be considered to deep?

Rawform, you are bogging yourself down with minutia. Stick to my previous advice--find the suite of CM's which feel most natural to you. Be like cool hand luke....you'll do fine.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 441
Joined: Jun 5th, 2006
Re: another question??
Reply #10 - Jul 5th, 2011 at 8:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
rawform

Think about how things turned out for Cool Hand Luke...you'll do fine.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: another question??
Reply #11 - Jul 5th, 2011 at 10:57pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Rawform,

Don't mind the quips from the frustrated polygraphists. It's very painful for them to see the genie being let out of the bottle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
another question??

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X