Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Failed a polygraph today (Read 12821 times)
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Failed a polygraph today
Aug 28th, 2009 at 1:45am
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I applied for a support position with the FBI two years ago. I just got back from the polygraph testing and am so depressed. 
First I must say I used to work for a police department as a dispatcher, and have taken one before.
The polygraph I took today was only a handful of questions the one I took before was probably over fifty questions. 

I knew there was something wrong when the guy kept on scratching his head and kept on moving and drinking water. At the end of the test he asked me what was going through my head when he asked me the questions. I said nothing I guess. He said he got very high reading from the drug part. I did use marijuana once when I was fifteen (I am 30 now). He asked me if I was lying I said no, he kept on insisting that I was lying, I started crying I said no. He said that if he submitted the polygraph like that, that they would deny it outright. He told me it would be best to make a statement which he typed up and I signed. He wrote that I lied and probably did it twice, he asked me when I did it. I said I hadn't that I was lying now that I was signing this document. He said he knew I was lying because he was an expert and he had done hundreds of these before. I was not lying. 
I am so depressed I can't believe I failed this question. I did not lie. I have always been against drugs, there was nothing to hide. I've always tried to live a "legal life"
If I was lying then why did I pass the part where he asked me if I intended to lie on this test. 
Now it is not about the job anymore, I don't need the money thank God, but I would like to clear my name. If I ever apply for a job I have to disclose that I failed a polygraph.
Is there anything I can do? Cry
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2009 at 4:35am
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estrella wrote on Aug 28th, 2009 at 1:45am:
He told me it would be best to make a statement which he typed up and I signed. He wrote that I lied and probably did it twice, he asked me when I did it. I said I hadn't that I was lying now that I was signing this document.


Did you in fact sign the "confession" that your polygrapher wrote up for you?
  

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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2009 at 10:47pm
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Yes he wrote a statement that said that I might have done it one more time. He made me doubt myself. When I finished signing it he told me, so where did you do it?! I told him I told you I didn't do it. I now realize how stupid it was on my part to sign this. I know there was not another incident, I would remember. He even told me I was probably drunk that is why I don't remember, I reminded him that I don't drink. I called the lady in charge of my application, I explained to her what happened I already submitted an appeal, but it will take a while she said before I hear back. What do I have to lose nothing but my reputation
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #3 - Aug 28th, 2009 at 11:06pm
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You must realize that police officer are pathological liars. The guy kept on scratching his head and moving and drinking water to confuse you. This is also why he asked you what was going through your head when he asked you the questions. All devious tricks to confuse and scare you. He asked you if you were lying and you said no, but he kept the pressure up, insisting that you were. He said that if he submitted the polygraph like that, that they would deny it outright - another lie from a pathological liar. The worst thing he came up with was his typed statement for you to sign. Pardon my language, but these people are heartless, soulless bastards. I would hope you fine relief in having been dispatched from any type of police work. I personally would have not passed this deceptive test either, but simply because of the fact that I would have told the examiner exactly what I thought of him. And probably would have been arrested for it. Congratulations on failing. No real human being should get involved in their kind of work. I hope you find work in a more civil occupation, but be sure to say to HELL with the FBI. 
(I am going to post a write up I copied from a cop watch site below.)
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #4 - Aug 28th, 2009 at 11:10pm
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Police and prosecutors: They are brute beast, bullies, evil deceivers, trained to isolate and psychologically bludgeon their victims, insisting that they confess to crimes irregardless of guilt or innocence, fabricators and destroyers of evidence (Flight 800), law breakers (Ruby Ridge) and even genocidal murderers (Waco), not caring about the law (New Orleans), reprobates when it comes to justice, deserters of all discretionary reasoning, refusing to come to terms concerning their own wickedness, without conscience desiring to destroy the innocent along with the guilty, never willingly confessing to having ever wronged others, too arrogant to apologize for their wrong doings (FBI), pathological liars who have been trained to question people unto the purpose of trapping them in their words, who only care about using and destroying you in order to get notches on their gun for self preservation and selfish personal gain.  If you are an innocent, law abiding person, you can not and must not trust or cooperate with police and prosecutors.  You must be as wise as the most hardened criminal.  The authorities must be seen as your vilest enemies.  They are without souls and can never be trusted.  You can not allow yourself to be deceived by the rare cop or prosecutor who is found to be honest.  Such a discovery will be a temporary fluke or a cop or prosecutor who has no future as a result of age or circumstances and thereby has only recently repented of their past evil tactics for the purpose of hoping to gain eternal salvation through works.  They should be seen as an apparition only, extreme rarities that your will never encounter.  Not even these can be trusted to be consistently righteous, however.  For once a person has consciously executed an evil upon another and did not repent unto reversing the evil, they have thereby gone beyond the point of return and will do such evils again and again.  Be especially careful of seemingly nice, friendly cops and prosecutors, '2 Cor 11:14 ...for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light'.  You simply must protect yourself in this fact that the American government and justice systems has become extremely hostile toward American citizens.

Immediately exercise your right to remain silent with the police when they begin to try to interrogate you (any questioning is an interrogation).  Once this is done, the police have no right to ask you any further questions.  If they presume to overstep their rights and continue to bully you with questions or lies concerning your right to remain silent, ignore them or repeat that you have already exercise your right to remain silent (and they don't have a right to ask you any more questions).  If they continue to try to get you to talk to them, find some object to focus upon and stare at and remain silent.  If they block the focal spot you are using, switch to another.  They are trying to make you feel isolated and insecure and you will probably feel that way.  They will try to deceive you by telling you that they want to help you.  Remember, they are schooled in lying and deception to get what they want, which includes a coerced false confession.  Ignore any and all purported evidence they throw at you.  You are not to defend yourself before the police by answering any questions.  Answering questions would cause you to place yourself in jeopardy by being tried by cop.  If you slip up and say something, immediately revert back to remaining silent.  Some police will try to seize on your speaking by telling you that as a result of your saying something, that you don't have a right to further remain silent.  Remember, the police are pathological liars.

Immediately exercise your right to remain silent with the prosecutors when they begin to try to interrogate you.  Once this is done, the prosecutors have no right to ask you any further questions.  If they presume to overstep their rights and continue to bully you with questions or lies concerning your right to remain silent, ignore them or repeat that you have already exercise your right to remain silent.  You are not to defend yourself before prosecutors by answering any questions.  Answering questions would cause you place yourself in double jeopardy by being tried by prosecutor.

Immediately exercise your right to not self incriminate yourself by 'taking your 5th amendment right' with prosecutors in a grand jury.  Prosecutors will at times become angry about a person who continually exercising their right to remain silent, so they will take that person before a grand jury where they do not have the right to remain silent.  This is where you continually take the 5th.  If a prosecutor threatens your with further charges or attempts to tell you that you don't have that right, continue to take the 5th.  Answering questions would cause you place yourself in triple jeopardy by allowing yourself to be tried by prosecutor.

If the prosecutor thinks that he has succeeded in fabricating a case against you and you end up in a trial, then this is where you need to be tried, by a judge and a jury of your peers.  You are to never allow yourself to be tried by cop or prosecutor beforehand.  Remember that they are only serving themselves and do not care who they destroy unto there own selfish purposes and desires.  Have you ever seen a prosecutors who lost a case who did not arrogantly proclaim that the person on trial was guilty, only he got away with the crime.

You should never allow yourself to be talked into taking a polygraph test.  Polygraph machines have never been capable of detecting whether a person is being truthful or not, no matter how trained or experienced the examiner is purported to be.  The machine is a complete fraud and thereby a tool that is used only for the purpose of trying to put people in fear.  The evidence from a polygraph test is not usually admissible in court, but knowing the worthlessness of such test along with the previous statement (are not usually admissible) makes submitting yourself to one quite dangerous.  Please read the free on-line PDF book: 'The Lie Behind the Lie Detector' at www.antipolygraph.org. ; There is a special emphasis on the complete discrediting of the polygraph by the former head of the F.B.I. polygraph division in this book.

Never consent to a home, vehicle, personal, or personal item search without a search warrant.  As stated once again, you are to never allow yourself to be tried by cop or prosecutor before hand.  Remember that they are only serving themselves and do not care who they destroy unto there own selfish means and desires.  You are to demand within yourself, that as an American you are innocent until proven guilty.  You are not going to allow yourself to be stopped by the police and then assumed to be guilty until you allow them to search you to prove that you are innocent of any wrong doing.  Any law enforcement officer who is presuming to turn this constitutional presumption of innocences on its head is corrupted.  Consenting to a search would cause you place yourself in quadruple jeopardy by being tried by cop.

Remember to be strong concerning the exercising of your rights.  Many people in the justice system become enraged when they don't get their way.  Stay your ground.  Those who do not take the above to heart will suffer the consequences of not completely protecting themselves when confronted by the authorities.  God, in his grace, has given you ways to protect yourself, use them.

A recent experience that show the selfish intent of police:

I recently had to renew my CHL.  The class was being given by a county High Sheriff in a small county.  He was very pro-conceal carry and delighted in talking about all that our state congress had done to undo the anti carry laws, rules, and decrees that had popped up across the state from various agencies.  Several prosecutors in large cities had instructed their police officers to always ask a person where he was coming from and where he was going.  These questions were absolutely none of the police business, but were being asked for the purpose of entrapping the motorist.  This entrapment was out of a dispute that rogue prosecutors had with a new law that allowed anyone to carry a concealed gun in their car, even without a conceal carry license.  The lawyer for the Texas Rifle Association thereby instructed the organization members to answer the above questions thusly: 'Officer, my lawyer has informed me that all the information you need from me is on my drivers license.'  Now, back to the High Sheriffs CHL class.  Thinking to help the sheriff in his zeal for peoples 2nd amendment rights along with the rest of the people in the class, I mentioned the Texas Rifle Association lawyer's instruction to its members.  I unfortunately received a rather angry, short, shocking reply from the sheriff, however.  His reply was so fast that all I could think at the time was that that was obviously the wrong thing to say in front of a policeman and informing other in their rights was the last thing he wanted to hear.  I actually completely missed what he had said.  He was able to quickly regain control of himself, however, and seemed to realize that his reaction was improper and I was correct in informing people of their rights.  One can see from this experience, however, that no matter how nice a policeman may seem, they harbor hostilities, especially for people who exercise their rights and tell others how to do the same.

A word on talking with the police or prosecutors:

I have seen it posted on many sites that you should be polite with the police.  You should, however, be polite up to a point.  After this point you need to either be quite or at the very least be assertive in presenting or repeating your rights.  Police officers and prosecutors desire for you to be confused, fearful, and defensive when around them.  Psychologically subduing a  person is an advantage for them.

Here is a card you can print up and give to police and prosecutors if they begin to try to question you.

As a law abiding citizen, my lawyer has instructed me to inform you that:

All the information you need from me is on my drivers license.
I am exercising my right to remain silent and will not answer any questions.
If I am no longer being detained, I wish to leave.
You DO NOT have my consent to search my home, person, possessions, or vehicles.
I will not consent to requests to go to a police station or prosecutors office to be questioned.
If I am arrested, I wish to speak to a lawyer and request for one to be provided.
If I can afford a lawyer, I wish for a lawyer to be provided until I can hire one.
I will not consent to being given a polygraph test.     www.antipolygraph.org
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #5 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 1:07am
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Quote:
I will not consent to being given a polygraph test.


"I  do not consent to being subject to a polygraph interrogation".  It is NOT a test, it is an INTERROGATION.   

Ed Van Arsdale (Ponca City, OK), who is a retired police detective and current private polygrapher, recommends to his defense attorney clients that anybody sent to a police polygraph should NOT submit to a post test interrogation.  Also, that they should terminate the polygraph and leaved is the an examiner becomes "aggressive", or "accusatory".

There you have it, right from the "horse's mouth"!

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 7:20am
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Thank you for your posts, I am feeling a bit better today I know I will get over it sooner or later. I feel more betrayed than depressed now. I don't know how these people can sleep at night. 
Last night when I didn't get any sleep thinking about it, I even thought of paying for my own poly. I even called the Poly place they said they could do it for 250.00.
But then I thought what is it really going to solve, nothing. If I know I didn't do anything; if I know I told the truth; then the  FBI could suck it (excuse my language) really.
They are the ones that don't deserve me. Tongue
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 11:05am
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Thats the spirit. Assertively take control of what they did to you and spit it back in their contentious, arrogant faces. They drive off the good, so now all they can hire is another Robert Hanssen and suffer another embarrassment.
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 7:21pm
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landers

Indeed, I haven't read such a hate filled post since my old friend, Lethe, last spewed venom.  Will the brute, evil deceiver and godless soul Sergeant1107 reply?  Wait, he is a police officer and thus, a pathological liar!
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2009 at 11:57am by pailryder »  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 7:37pm
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Estrella, 

I sent you a personal message through this website, but also wanted to post here in case you don't check that inbox.  I'll modify my remarks to address you and everyone else.  

First, I'm so sorry about your bad polygraph experience.  This is a tough thing to get "fixed" and a tougher thing to get over, and I wish you luck.  

Second, I'm wondering if you're anywhere near me (I live in Virginia), because I'm making a documentary on polygraphs and I would love to interview you.  I'm a completely independent film-maker, compiling stories just like yours because I don't want anyone else to be victimized by this process.  I believe you, and I think your voice is very important.  

Please let me know if you'd like more information about my documentary project, or if you're anywhere nearby and would like to get together to chat.  

As for Pailryder and other polygraph examiners who read these boards:  I continue to extend the same offer to you.  If you plan to be in Virginia and would like to talk with me on film, please send me your qualifications and story.  

Thanks and take care,
Katelyn

katelyn.sack@gmail.com
www.katelynsack.com
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #10 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 10:27pm
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Dear Mr. or Ms. Pailryder my intention was not to be mean to anyone, I am new to this website and only found out about it after I did my polygraph as I wanted answers (I guess) as to why I would fail such, and opinions and experiences on others who took it.
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #11 - Aug 30th, 2009 at 1:40am
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Estrella,

Here is the standard polygrapher reply to people such as yourself, who come here for answers after having come up false positive on the polygraph:

"Well, there is a ton of research that shows polygraphs are 98% accurate.  So I don't know what happened in your case.  You must have had a bad examiner.  Are you sure you were telling the truth?  How can you be sure?

At any rate, no test is perfect.  Even X-rays, MRIs and atomic anti-discombobulation regulators have error rates.  So give polygraphy a break.  Besides, nobody is entitled to a job.  I can help but sense a tone of "entitlement" on your part.   Maybe you are lying about telling the truth, and have just come here to bitterly complain and tarnish the good name of polygraphy!  Have a nice day!"

TC

  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #12 - Aug 30th, 2009 at 2:54pm
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To Estrella:

I posted the note below to 'Off-Topic Posts' after posting here. Please read it in the light of the post from 'T.M. Cullen'.

'At the top of most article pages, there is the wisely posted statement: 'Be aware that polygraph operators also read the discussions on this message board. Participants of this forum should also be aware that: Be aware that polygraph operators may also reply to the discussions on this message board with deceptive, misleading comments.'

In regards to the accusation above by pailryder concerning my post: 'Police and prosecutors:', I will make this statement also. 'Participants of this forum should also be aware that: Be aware that police officers and prosecutors may also reply to the discussions on this message board with deceptive, misleading comments.'

What do you have to loose by heeding my posts above? Nothing.
What do you have to loose by not heeding my posts above? You freedom, as well as possibly family, friends, and material possessions.

Wishing you all the best, Landers
« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2009 at 1:29pm by landers »  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #13 - Aug 31st, 2009 at 11:19pm
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Mr. Cullen, at no moment do I feel a sense of entitlement to any job nor have I ever thought I am better than anyone else. It is obvious you on the other hand have the "cop mentality" I have worked with many like you. NO I did not lie, I repeat I DID NOT LIE. While I have given up hope for this job, I also feel it is not worth losing any more sleep over it. My family knows me and my friends know me, that is all that matters. I have told the truth and I don't know how else to prove it, just that it could very well be the examiner who was not trained as he should have been.
  
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Re: Failed a polygraph today
Reply #14 - Aug 31st, 2009 at 11:55pm
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Estrella,

My post was a joke!

I was a "tongue in cheek" imitation of some of the standard and lame answers polygraphers have given on this and other boards.

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Failed a polygraph today

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