Poll
Poll Question: Do you think that lying and cheating on a polygraph exam is justified if one thinks it might help them get a job with the government or avoid further suspicion in a criminal investigation?
bars   pie

Yes re: employmet/ Yes re: criminal investigation    
  5 (41.7%)
Yes re: employmet/ No re: criminal investigation    
  5 (41.7%)
No re: employmet/ No re: criminal investigation    
  2 (16.7%)
No re: employmet/Yes re: criminal investigation    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 12
« Last Modified by: SanchoPanza on: Nov 2nd, 2008 at 4:30pm »
Normal Topic Polygraph Countermeasures Poll (Read 9592 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box SanchoPanza
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 343
Joined: Dec 8th, 2007
Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 4:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
GO TO THE ABOVE THREAD AND TAKE THE POLL.

The question is: Do you think that lying and cheating on a polygraph exam is justified if one believes it might help them get a job with the government or avoid further suspicion in a criminal investigation?

For the purpose of this poll, "cheating" is defined as the attempt to influence the results of the polygraph exam or manipulate chart tracings by deceit, trick, or artifice which would include the countermeasures promoted in Dr. Maschke's Book.
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 6:48pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
polygraph exam?

The polygraph is not an "exam".  So if you're trying to conjure up the vision of little Johnny cheating on a math test, it doesn't apply.   

Quote:
....to influence the results of the polygraph exam or manipulate chart tracings by deceit, trick, or artifice which would include the countermeasures promoted in Dr. Maschke's Book.


But if these chart tracings of mere bodily functions are used by the chart operator to deceive, trick or manipulate an person who is telling the truth into falsely believing he/she is actually lying, than it's not really cheating.  Turnaround is fair play.

Problem is, you guys have been doing this so long you're livng is a world of make believe.

TC

P.S.  Still think Dr. Zimbardo is a proponent of the polygraph?  Got anymore bogus research to misapply?
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2008 at 7:23pm by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box SanchoPanza
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 343
Joined: Dec 8th, 2007
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 8:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
T.M. Cullen wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 6:48pm:
The polygraph is not an "exam


You should really buy a dictionary Mr. Cullen
"Exam" is a commonly accepted abbreviation of the word examination. I have included the definition below.

Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees". 

For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.

examination 

noun 
1.  the act of examining something closely (as for mistakes)   
2.  a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge; "when the test was stolen the professor had to make a new set of questions"   
3.  formal systematic questioning [syn: interrogation]   
4.  a detailed inspection of your conscience (as done daily by Jesuits) [syn: examen]   
5.  the act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned   

examination. (n.d.). WordNet® 3.0. Retrieved November 02, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/examination

What definition of the word exam are you using?

Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #3 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 1:46am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
SanchoPanza wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 8:51pm:
T.M. Cullen wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 6:48pm:
The polygraph is not an "exam


You should really buy a dictionary Mr. Cullen
"Exam" is a commonly accepted abbreviation of the word examination. I have included the definition below.

Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees". 

For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.

examination 

noun 
1.  the act of examining something closely (as for mistakes)  
2.  a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge; "when the test was stolen the professor had to make a new set of questions"  
3.  formal systematic questioning [syn: interrogation]  
4.  a detailed inspection of your conscience (as done daily by Jesuits) [syn: examen]  
5.  the act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned  

examination. (n.d.). WordNet® 3.0. Retrieved November 02, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/examination

What definition of the word exam are you using?

Sancho Panza


Sancho,

TC is right. you are using the term "exam" to mean "as in cheating on a exam" which is not the case at all.
When one takes an "exam" and gives the correct answers that individual WILL pass the exam. Not always so with polygraphy as you well know.

The definition of exam doesn't actually apply to polygraph as stated in your post.
 
1) Polygraph does not examine something closely. It only attempts to induce a confession using the subjects ignorance of polygraph and it's validity.

2) It is not a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge. Since polygraph does not detect lies as the general public has been lead to believe it does not evaluate anything other than a response to a question. 

3) it is not a formal systematic since systematic is defined as: done or acting according to a fixed plan or system we know that polygraph is far from a fixed plan or system since it seeks only to solicit information from the subject and cannot by itself be counted on for the truth.

4) IT CERTAINLY does not inspect anyones conscience in detail or any other way. It simply has no power to do that in any provable way.

5)The act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned. 
Again, polygraph by it self cannot determine what anyone knows or has learned. Only answers to the subsequent interrogation can and sometimes thats false too.

So Sancho, what definition of "exam" do you think applies to polygraph in the content of your little Poll?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box SanchoPanza
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 343
Joined: Dec 8th, 2007
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #4 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 3:18am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Notguilty1  You are again WRONG

Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees". 

For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.


Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 5:11am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Getting back to the original topic.

Call it whatever you want to call it, it is a ruse, it is a con game.  If a person has to resort to conning a conman, to prevent himself from being falsely branded a liar, then cheat baby cheat.

Now cheating on a bar exam, CPA examination...etc., that really is dishonest.

I believe in delving into the true meaning of things, and not being superficial to support a losing battle.  Criminals often parse and nitpick words to rationalize their guilt or otherwise obfuscate matters.  Just like you are doing.

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box SanchoPanza
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 343
Joined: Dec 8th, 2007
Re: Polygraph Countermeasures Poll
Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 11:11am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
T.M. Cullen wrote on Nov 3rd, 2008 at 5:11am:
Criminals often parse and nitpick words to rationalize their guilt or otherwise obfuscate matters.



Mr. Cullen.  Go back and read your posts. You are the one who is arguing the definition of the word exam when Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees". 

You seem to think by changing the definition of the word exam, you can change the definition of "Lying" and " Cheating" . A feeble attempt at a straw man argument at best.
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Polygraph Countermeasures Poll

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X