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Of Colanders and Lie Detectors (Read 5730 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Of Colanders and Lie Detectors May 24^th, 2008 at 6:47am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A new video is available on AntiPolygraph.org's YouTube channel:
	« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2008 at 6:24am by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #1 - May 24^th, 2008 at 10:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George, That was a great video clip!


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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #2 - May 25^th, 2008 at 5:23am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I agree! George, you look great with a colander on your head, natural even. Of course, using a clip from a fake polygraph was well beneath you... Sackett


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #3 - May 25^th, 2008 at 5:48am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 5:23am: Of course, using a clip from a fake polygraph was well beneath you... The scene used to illustrate the polygraph, from the movie Harsh Times, which has been previously discussed on this message board, features a real polygraph instrument with a real polygraph operator (Barry Colvert) behind it. That which is "fake" about the polygraph is the notion that it can detect lies -- a falsehood marketed to the public by those who make a living giving these bogus tests.
	« Last Edit: May 25^th, 2008 at 6:29am by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #4 - May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A movie is for entertainment; like your clip, entertaining, but hardly accurate. Just because it features a "real" examiner and instrument does not mean his actions (in the movie) were a proper application of the polygraph process. It was not accurate. I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree, but most of the arguments on this board are petty. However, in the name of accuracy and truth, it has to be brought to the attention of the readers. Sackett


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #5 - May 25^th, 2008 at 3:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm: I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree... Indeed, Jim. I think you're picking fly shit out of black pepper.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #6 - May 25^th, 2008 at 3:23pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 3:20pm: sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm: I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree... Indeed, Jim. I think you're picking fly shit out of black pepper. George, I'm just trying to fit in here... Sackett


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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #7 - May 25^th, 2008 at 4:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm: A movie is for entertainment; like your clip, entertaining, but hardly accurate. Just because it features a "real" examiner and instrument does not mean his actions (in the movie) were a proper application of the polygraph process. It was not accurate. I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree, but most of the arguments on this board are petty. However, in the name of accuracy and truth, it has to be brought to the attention of the readers. Sackett Yet, you come here daily to make petty arguments. The collender analogy is an accurate one based on the known results that polygraph yeild, not the lie that the polygraph industry continues to try to perpetuate that polygraphs are 95-98% accurate, of course Sackett thats only if the hundreds of "variables" that you claim are in order. Variables, that BTW cannot be found anywhere.


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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #8 - May 25^th, 2008 at 4:54pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	notguilty1 wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 4:32pm: sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm: A movie is for entertainment; like your clip, entertaining, but hardly accurate. Just because it features a "real" examiner and instrument does not mean his actions (in the movie) were a proper application of the polygraph process. It was not accurate. I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree, but most of the arguments on this board are petty. However, in the name of accuracy and truth, it has to be brought to the attention of the readers. Sackett Yet, you come here daily to make petty arguments. The collender analogy is an accurate one based on the known results that polygraph yeild, not the lie that the polygraph industry continues to try to perpetuate that polygraphs are 95-98% accurate, of course Sackett thats only if the hundreds of "variables" that you claim are in order. Variables, that BTW cannot be found anywhere. I'm not here to argue, just point out deficiencies in the information presented here. As for the colander, was it legal to use? Yes. Did it obtain information in the case George mentioned and help resolve the criminal issue? Probably. So if somebody allowed themselves to be conned by some inventive detectives, then so be it. Those aren't the type that sit around on the computer reading your insightful opinions anyway... Sackett


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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #9 - May 25^th, 2008 at 7:41pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 4:54pm: notguilty1 wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 4:32pm: sackett wrote on May 25^th, 2008 at 2:44pm: A movie is for entertainment; like your clip, entertaining, but hardly accurate. Just because it features a "real" examiner and instrument does not mean his actions (in the movie) were a proper application of the polygraph process. It was not accurate. I suppose you could argue this is petty, I agree, but most of the arguments on this board are petty. However, in the name of accuracy and truth, it has to be brought to the attention of the readers. Sackett Yet, you come here daily to make petty arguments. The collender analogy is an accurate one based on the known results that polygraph yeild, not the lie that the polygraph industry continues to try to perpetuate that polygraphs are 95-98% accurate, of course Sackett thats only if the hundreds of "variables" that you claim are in order. Variables, that BTW cannot be found anywhere. I'm not here to argue, just point out deficiencies in the information presented here. As for the colander, was it legal to use? Yes. Did it obtain information in the case George mentioned and help resolve the criminal issue? Probably. So if somebody allowed themselves to be conned by some inventive detectives, then so be it. Those aren't the type that sit around on the computer reading your insightful opinions anyway... Sackett WOW! We finally got a winner!! Sackett, this is what George is pointig out with this site and how the collender relates well to Polygraph. It is nothing more than a way to get people to confess (all be it sometimes falsely) I am glad that once again you see what Polygraph is all about! If you replace polygraph with collender in your post you have it.


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #10 - May 26^th, 2008 at 10:27pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mr Maschke Trust a polygraph examiner on this one, for true professional realism you need at least one wire running from the colander to the copier.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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Disappointed New User Offline Posts: 7 Location: Utah Joined: Mar 7^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Of Colanders and Lie Detectors Reply #11 - Mar 21^st, 2009 at 3:49am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on May 26^th, 2008 at 10:27pm: Mr Maschke Trust a polygraph examiner on this one, for true professional realism you need at least one wire running from the colander to the copier. Hello, Pailryder, That was good. But, of course you don't need any wires to equal the performance of some polygraph exams (speaking from experience). Please don't be offended. I have another purpose in joining the conversation. I see a lot of talent and knowledge on this board. Probably more than in the average professional conference. My thought is wouldn't it be great if we put our heads together and could solve this conflict over accuracy. Somebody is going to find a solution, I think. It could be as simple as a better protocol than the CQT. In this vein, I was mulling over a possible solution. I admit it's not very good, and maybe folks here can improve the idea. Suppose we have a subject that is so nervous the machine will surely say he is lying on the relevant question. Could we construct a list of equally threatening questions, so many that he couldn't possibly be guilty on all of them. Then we could watch to see if the machine knows which question is the relevant question. Or, if it accuses him of lying on an implausible number of questions. This is targeted to stopping false positives. I think if that were its only virtue, it should still be a valuable addition.


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