Hello Everyone,

I want to start off my first post by saying I really wish I had researched polygraphs before I had been administered one. I knew they were inadmissible in most court situations, I knew they were regarded as bunk science, yet I didn’t “refresh” my memory prior to my polygraph because I was worried it would make me more anxious and cause me to fail. Little did I know that I was being set up to fail from the start; and having read this site would have let me beat the odds that were stacked against me.

My polygraph horror story is in regards to the one department that seems to be the worst offender; the FBI.

First off, some information on me. I’m about as an ideal candidate as you can get. I hold two degrees in political science, I’ve got a squeaky clean record; I don’t drink, I’ve never done drugs, my credit is spotless and I’ve never even so as much as gotten a speeding ticket. 

When I received a conditional offer for employment with the FBI a few months ago, I couldn’t have been more pleased. I have wanted to work for the government since I was in college, and I worked my butt of in school, and stayed on the straight and narrow to make that happen.

When I went in for my security interview, it was a very pleasant experience. The agent interviewing me was extremely nice, and even suggested I apply for a better position then the one I was offered, and passed my information on to the recruiter for that area. He told me I had an amazing background, and that he would love to have someone like me working along side him. He assured me I would have no problem with the polygraph and I’d be an employee in no time.

He then returned me to the reception area where I had to wait for the polygrapher. And wait. And wait some more. He ended up being close to forty minutes late for my appointment. I figured he was busy, and this is normal. Little did I know this was just step one in creating a stressful situation for me.

The polygrapher was the exact opposite of the agent conducting the security interview; he was brash, curt, and looked at me right off the bat with the suspicion that I was nothing more than a criminal. I figured he had just been at his job for too long and this was the type of thing one could not turn off.

He went through a pre interview, stressing over and over again how integrity is the most important thing and that they cannot employ people who lie. EVER. He kept building it up and up to me that if I have ever lied, to an employer, or a loved one, that I was not FBI material. At this point I obviously started to get nervous. 

When he went over the questions, which I later found out were the true “control” questions, I was very nervous as I immediately noticed a grey area. Have I ever lied to a superior? I’m sure I had. I had to have done that. I know that I had lied to a previous boss and told her I agreed with her when I didn’t. Does he really mean that I cannot lie? Aren’t little white lies okay as long as they aren’t anything serious? For this first one I told him no, as I was really hoping he meant serious stuff.

When he got to the question about lying to your loved ones, your spouse, the people who rely on you, I broke down and said yes.

He stopped, tore his glasses off, and yelled “WHAT?!!!!!???” Literally tore them off, and began shaking with rage.

You would have thought that I had murdered someone.

I explained that I am sure I have lied to my spouse in the past, about stupid things, like whether or not their clothes looked good, or whether or not I wanted to go out and do something.

He said “Those are fine. I mean SERIOUS things.”

And I kept saying “But if I am supposed to have so much integrity, aren’t those lies serious?

And he kept assuring me it was not and issue, while following it up with “Didn’t your parents teach you right from wrong? Do you know right from wrong?” And telling me that his little machine was going to “find out” if they brought me up right.

I started to feel like I was in the twilight zone ;[

As a side note, I am one of those people that has a tendency to want to go above and beyond. So if someone is sitting there railing against me and telling me I  should never lie, I’m going to think every time I told a lie that it was damaging to my character and makes me a bad person. And if you ask me a very vague question like “Have you ever lied to someone close to you” or  “Have you ever cheated on a test?” of course I’m going to rack my brain for the one time when I was a kid when I may have done this. 

Back to my story. The polygrapher sets me up for the test. He had me to do the number listing (answering no to each) as discussed on this site.

It was when he put on the blood pressure cuff that I realized I was going to have a problem. I have really bad circulation, and by the fourth question in my hand had turned bright red, with my veins popping out (almost like a tourquinet had been applied.) I had complained of the pain and even mistakenly moved a few times because of it, which he proceeded to yell at me about.

In the second set of questions, I was in excruciating pain because the series was longer, about 12 in all, and my hand was literally pounding. I asked him to do something about it. He got visibly pissed off, and agreed to move the cuff lower on my arm. As the test worse on, he became more and more hostile to me. At one point he yelled at me to get up from the chair as I was moving around too much, and then came over and pushed me down violently as I got up from it as I was still attached to the chest pieces. I asked him to please adjust the blood pressure cuff because of the pain.

Of course moving the cuff did nothing, as he kept inflating it to the point where I visibly had no circulation and was uncomfortable. I voiced this, but he said that was the best he could do.

Then we get to the end of the test, and he sits down and informs me with a grave voice that I failed. He proceeds into a tirade about how in his 20 years of law enforcement he has never seen a polygraph that was SO ACCURATE. I am the worst liar he has ever encountered, and my lies are “off the charts”.

He then told me what question I failed on.

It was: “Have you ever used drugs or been involved in the sale of drugs.”

I was FLOORED. Of all the things for me to fail on (after all, the control questions were the ones giving me a problem) I failed on drugs? The one thing I have never done in my life, EVER? The one thing that I have actually ended relationships over? Are you serious? Frankly I think for a person of my generation its fairly amazing that I haven’t done them. 

He proceeded to interrogate me as to what “troubled me about the question”. Shocked, and dismayed, I tried to come up with reasons. I had a parent who was an alcoholic, and as a result I never wanted to drink, and never did drugs. He dismissed this right off saying there is “no way” those could be connected as “drugs” are not “alcohol” What? Aren’t most kids nowadays taught that alcohol is a drug? Sorry buddy, but for me they are interrelated. 

I gave him other reasons. I had broken up with a boyfriend I had at the tender age of 15 as I thought he had sold drugs. I ended a friendship in grad school over drug use. The later he really latched on; he started yelling at me “If you are so anti-drug, why did you hang out with someone who did them?” I said because I thought that was in their past, and when I found out it not only wasn’t, but was causing them to act crazy, our friendship fell apart.

He then railed on me for another ten minutes about how I just need to be honest, I’ve used drugs. I need to stop lying. He asked if I had ever been offered. I said of course. He said he didn’t believe me because people “never give away drugs”. I must have bought them. I’m a drug user and a buyer. What? Again I was confused…when did I ever say someone was “giving them away?” To me I meant, I had been offered to buy them. I thought that was implicit in my statement. 

He went on and on and on saying how its such a shame because I’m so professional, I’m such a great fit, but unfortunately I’M A LIAR and I have “issues with that question.” Meanwhile he interspersed the conversation with “war stories” from his years as an agent about other people that lied, as well as other people that issues with the questions and why. Isn’t that information confidential? He must have told me about seven different people and gave out very personal details of their lives.

Then he explained I had to write this all down and give it to him so that he could send it to HQ who would decide what to do with me. The way he made it sound was that they might go through with my background check after all. While I was writing it, he very loudly and unprofessionally called the HR person I was supposed to meet with and told her how professional I was, but how much of a liar I was, and she would have to cancel her appointment with me. I could tell the HR person was a bit annoyed, because the conversation lasted for a few minutes and she was asking him questions that he seemed to rail against as well.

Then he makes me give him the statement, as well as the three signed papers I needed to bring to start my background check. After taking those papers I assumed I was ok. Why take the papers if they didn’t want to check me?

Then he tells me the truth. He digs into me telling me that I’m pretty much done with the FBI, I can just forget it because I’m a liar. Then he tells me I’m pretty much down with any federal job because they share all the info and everybody will know I’m a liar. Oh, and btw the FBI does the background checks for ALL agencies, so I’m out of luck, forever. 

I left that meeting feeling like my life is over. I still feel that way today. 

In the interim I hopped on the Internet and started my own research. I found out about the lie behind the polygraph, the court case involving the FBI, and the dozens of law firms just in DC that deal with helping people wrongly denied security clearances. I was blown away. If there are that many law firms just in DC dedicated solely to these issues, how pervasive must it be?

I’m now at a crossroads and I don’t know what to do. I was hoping the people who frequent this forum could give me some advice.

I know step one is that I should request my file via the freedom of information act. Beyond that I’m not sure what I want to do because I no longer want the job (why would I want to work for them when I know I will only have to be submitted to this charade again in five years?) but what I am horribly concerned with is that my federal career really is dead in the water.

I have contacted a lawyer, who seemed really familiar with the issue but to consult him is quite expensive and I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Right now my main concern is about this information being shared with other agencies or being used against me in anyway.

So my questions are:

1.      If I do not want the job, is a lawyer worth it?
2.      I’ve read here that nobody ever passes the retest with the FBI. Is this 100 percent true? I ask because I’m sure if I consult a lawyer, they would need me to pursue retesting to prove that the FBI has no intention of allowing me to pass.
3.      I know the court case has been settled in favor of the FBI. Does anyone know if the lawyers involved are planning an appeal? I couldn’t find any info about it on their website.
4.      Do I need to worry about this? Is my life truly over? I’m sure if I apply to the State dept, it would become a problem, but what about places, which shouldn’t have an intense background check, like the VBA or USAID?
5.      Would it be worth contacting the ACLU since I am female and pursuing it that way? Frankly if anybody wanted to use me as a test case they would be hitting a goldmine, as my record is so clean.
6.      Are the issues about my pain during the test, the waiting time, and the stories he told me about other people’s tests significant? Do these violate any ethical standards?

I am fairly sure that when the polygraph went in there with the preconceived notion that I was a liar, as I told him in the question review part of the test that I had never did drugs. And he so convinced that I was a liar that he did everything with his his power to make that outcome a reality.

Honestly, I think its fairly laughable that a federal law enforcement agency can accuse me of lying based on a pseudo science, but not actually put any of their law enforcement capabilities to work to find out if they are right or wrong.

Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

NoLongerBelieve

It doesn't take a lawyer for you to officially charge the sadistic bastard with assault then bring a damage lawsuit against him and his employer. He is not allowed to put his hands on you much less shove you down in a chair. Go to the police station and charge him with assault and endangerment and demand his arrest. Cutting off circulation is very dangerous. There is no reason for a BP cuff to be that tight for a good test. The physical abuse probably wouldn't have happened if you were a man. A man, who was any kind of a man, would have put him on the floor. This website is full of experiences like yours and it makes me so angry I want to go kick his ass for you. As long as applicants puts up with this crap and not fight back, it will certainly continue.

Pailrider,yankiedog, sackett, etc., do you think there is still a membership place in APA for that SOB? Will the APA sanction him for assault? Or will you poo poo this case like you do others of this nature. The polygraph industry should clean its own house before trying to clean others.

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That is not true, and he knows it is not true.  He lied.  So how did he manage to get hired by the FBI if lying disqualifies one as "FBI material".

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You were.  The ironic thing is that HONEST people, who want to BE TOTALLY UP FRONT, don't do well in such an environment.   

Incidently, they WANT you to lie to control questions. That way they can  compare your reactions to a control question, to any reaction while answering a "relevant" question.  If your reaction is stronger when answering the later, you fail!  The key to passing is to react MORE to the control questions.  That is one of their "dirty little secrets".

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This is why polygraphs should be video taped and a copy kept on file by a third party.  They wouldn't try this shit if they knew they were being taped.

We just discussed this on another thread, and we got a bunch of lame answers from a practicing polygrapher as to why that would be a mistake.  They don't want scrutiny.  Scrutiny is their enemy!

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They say that to all the girls!   

I started a thread awhile back about a murder case in which the polygrapher said the same thing (almost word for word) to a young kid who just discovered his fiancee had been murdered.  Of course, he was found INNOCENT.

I think they teach them this shit in polygraph school.

I could go on and on.

Welcome to the club.  Their are many, many people who have been in your situation.  This is how this board got established.

Tell everyone you know about your experience!  The public has been sold a bill of goods with regard to the polygraph.

Read the "The lie behind the lie detector", and the National Academy of Sciences report on the polygraph.  Both can be download from the home page of this site.

TC

NoLongerBelieve wrote on May 23^rd, 2008 at 12:10am:


Probably not. I don't know what a lawyer could accomplish for you at this point that you cannot do on your own.

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The only exception that comes to mind involved an FBI applicant who was already employed by a federal law enforcement agency prior to his seeking employment with the FBI.

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To the best of my knowledge, no appeal has been filed. I'm doubtful whether one could be filed at this stage, as more than a year has passed since the court's ruling.

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It's certainly not the end of your life, but it will have adverse consequences. Whenever a National Agency Check is done on you (as it may be for any number of federal jobs), it will come to light that you have an FBI file, and that file will be requested and reviewed, and your polygraph results may at that point become a hindrance.

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The ACLU has in the past taken a public stance against polygraphy in the workplace, and it's not a bad idea to contact your local office regarding your experience. Whether or not gender bias played a role in your polygraph results, no person's honesty and integrity should be judged on the basis of such junk science as polygraphy.

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I don't think the waiting time is such a big deal, and it may not have been intentional. The stories he told you about other people's tests don't necessarily constitute misconduct (he didn't disclose their names, right?), and in any event, the stories may have been cut from whole cloth and simply intended to encourage you to make an admission.

The pain you felt is a significant issue though, whether or not the polygrapher intentionally overinflated the pressure cuff, and the pain you experienced could have affected the outcome of the examination.

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It's entirely possible that your polygrapher decided he was going to flunk you from the get-go, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that such is the case. While he may have seemed like an asshole while "setting" the "control" questions, his theatrics may have actually been intended to "help" you pass by sensitizing you to those questions.

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It is indeed absurd that our government relies on such pseudoscientific nonsense to judge people's honesty and integrity. I hope you'll join us in helping to spread the truth about lie detectors.

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At this stage, I think the most important thing you can do is to contest the polygraph results in writing. Your letter should be added to your permanent FBI file and will document the fact that you do not, by your silence, tacitly acknowledge that the polygrapher's accusation of deception is true.

What proof does she have?

It will boil down to "he said, she said".

This is why most polygraphers are against video taping exams.

Wouldn't it be cool if a reporter took an FBI poly with a hidden camera?  I'd watch that!

TC

NoLongerBelieve

You and others in your shoes can help future applicants, and yourselves, by getting the ball rolling to remove and prevent idiot polygraphers (like yours) from forcing their abusive nature on others.

If you don't want to charge him with assualt, then contact an investigative reporter with the Washington Post and give him your story. Also contact the same type reporter at the TV station. Then write to your elected officials in D. C. and tell them if they don't do something about this, then you will campaign for their removal. That idiot is extremely lucky that he will never have to test me.

To me, the main purpose of this site is to educate and George has done an exemplary job with it but, to only post your story here will have little adverse effect on the polygraph industry. It may serve to to give you a little peace of mind. If EVERYONE who posts their complaints here would take them to the media and their congresspeople (and heaven forbid file individual lawsuits) you would see a difference. To give you an example: I just heard that the organization, with which I am very active, was instrumental in defeating the House Speaker's amnesty bill. We had nearly 100,000 signatures on a petition plus individual letters, e-mails and faxes. This is what it takes to make our poluted-crats take action. We could even lower gas prices (working on that one too) by taking such action. Those who are willing to do nothing, have no room to complain.

As I said before, I get angry when I read stories like yours and have written to my congresspeople on behalf your plights but, just my lowly letters alone has no effect.

Twoblock,

Don't step in any bear shit while you are up there!

TC

paleryder

Your response is what we have come to expect when a lawless polygrapher is exposed. How would she know if he was an APA member? I would expect any polygrapher, worth his salt, would be a member. The reason for my posts is trying to get her to take the experience to a higher level. Evidently, members are not interested in cleaning their own house.

Your last sentance isn't worth a comment.