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Inconclusive - Advice for next time? (Read 13870 times)

applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Mar 10^th, 2008 at 7:58pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I am applying for a position with the FBI and was just notified that my initial polygraph results were inconclusive. I didn't know anything about polygraphs before I took the last one, but have since done a great deal of research into the mechanics of the process. (This site was an incredible resource!) In particular, I now understand how probable-lie control questions work. Here are my questions: How forthcoming should I be about my knowledge of the process, including probable-lie control questions? Will knowing the importance of the probable-lie control questions affect my "natural" responses to these questions? Is there any point in trying to disclose past misdeeds related to the probable-lie control questions during the pre-test interview (like stealing that piece of candy when I was 9-years old)? Any other advice this second time around?


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #1 - Mar 10^th, 2008 at 8:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	In this situation, I think your best option may well be to be perfectly frank with your polygrapher about the research you've done and your understanding of polygraph procedure. Your polygrapher for the re-test might have a hard time believing that you haven't researched polygraphy after having had an inconclusive result the first time. There is a risk that your candor will result in your polygrapher arbitrarily accusing you of deception and/or countermeasure use. But perhaps your polygrapher will correctly take your honesty about your newfound knowledge of polygraphy as a sign of your intent to answer all questions truthfully. Your knowledge of the question types could influence your reactions to them, but its hard to anticipate how. Knowing that it's important to react strongly to the control questions in order to pass might cause you to react more strongly to them. On the other hand, knowing that it's only the relevant questions that are of real interest might result in your reacting more strongly to them instead. I don't think there's any problem making minor admissions to probable-lie control questions, if asked. But there's a good chance that, after disclosing what you know about polygraph procedure, your polygrapher will choose to give you a Relevant/Irrelevant test (see Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector), instead.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #2 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 2:52am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 7:58pm: I am applying for a position with the FBI and was just notified that my initial polygraph results were inconclusive. I didn't know anything about polygraphs before I took the last one, but have since done a great deal of research into the mechanics of the process. (This site was an incredible resource!) In particular, I now understand how probable-lie control questions work. Here are my questions: How forthcoming should I be about my knowledge of the process, including probable-lie control questions? Will knowing the importance of the probable-lie control questions affect my "natural" responses to these questions? Is there any point in trying to disclose past misdeeds related to the probable-lie control questions during the pre-test interview (like stealing that piece of candy when I was 9-years old)? Any other advice this second time around? My guess is that you were almost there, but the scoring didn't come out completely in your favor. Otherwise, they would probably just DQ'd you and moved on the one of the next 500 applicants... Yeah, tell the examiner you looked around the web for information about the polygraph. You were concerned and curious and naturaly went to the web for information. There, you found a lot of stuff, both pro and con. My opinion is, that if you are under 30 and say you haven't searched the web on something this important, you're probably lying anyway and it sounds rediculous. Rather than trying to "figure out" the process, why not go in and be honest. Completely honest. Do not try to beat it, you'll come off looking like your trying to hide something or guilty of something. After your testing, come back and let us know how you did. Good luck, Sackett


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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #3 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 4:15am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55, In case you didn't know, and for whatever it is worth to you (and no disrespect intended), Mr. Sackett is a practicing polygrapher. TC, False Positive "self-wallower"
	« Last Edit: Mar 11^th, 2008 at 4:32am by T.M. Cullen »
	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Hunter User Offline Posts: 39 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #4 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 6:02am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Are you the T.M. Cullen from NASA?


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #5 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 6:16am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 2:52am: Rather than trying to "figure out" the process, why not go in and be honest. The two are not mutually exclusive, you know.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #6 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:22am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	No, I am not from NASA. A rocket scientist I ain't. I am a retired Military linguist (Chinese). TC

	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #7 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 3:23pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 2:52am: applicant55 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 7:58pm: I am applying for a position with the FBI and was just notified that my initial polygraph results were inconclusive. I didn't know anything about polygraphs before I took the last one, but have since done a great deal of research into the mechanics of the process. (This site was an incredible resource!) In particular, I now understand how probable-lie control questions work. Here are my questions: How forthcoming should I be about my knowledge of the process, including probable-lie control questions? Will knowing the importance of the probable-lie control questions affect my "natural" responses to these questions? Is there any point in trying to disclose past misdeeds related to the probable-lie control questions during the pre-test interview (like stealing that piece of candy when I was 9-years old)? Any other advice this second time around? My guess is that you were almost there, but the scoring didn't come out completely in your favor. Otherwise, they would probably just DQ'd you and moved on the one of the next 500 applicants... Yeah, tell the examiner you looked around the web for information about the polygraph. You were concerned and curious and naturaly went to the web for information. There, you found a lot of stuff, both pro and con. My opinion is, that if you are under 30 and say you haven't searched the web on something this important, you're probably lying anyway and it sounds rediculous. Rather than trying to "figure out" the process, why not go in and be honest. Completely honest. Do not try to beat it, you'll come off looking like your trying to hide something or guilty of something. After your testing, come back and let us know how you did. Good luck, Sackett Yet, My poligrapher told me that my research probably hurt my results. ( probably cause, now I know he knew nothing for sure ) You can't win ..... it's a dice roll...... you'll see


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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #8 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 3:42pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	T.M. Cullen wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 4:15am: applicant55, In case you didn't know, and for whatever it is worth to you (and no disrespect intended), Mr. Sackett is a practicing polygrapher. TC, False Positive "self-wallower" Mr/Ms Cullen, be careful! Your sense of humor is showing... Sackett


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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #9 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 4:21pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thanks for all the great advice! I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out.


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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #10 - Mar 18^th, 2008 at 2:12am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	FYI - I had "round 2" today. I told the polygrapher that I did some research and knew how the probable lie control questions work. Even so, he used that format. I actually felt that things didn't go well because I was easily able to identify the probable lie control questions and did not feel that "twinge" of anxiety when asked one that I obviously should be lying to. I also did not attempt to employ any countermeasures. Unlike the first time, I only had two series of questions (I believe I had a breakdown series in addition the first time). He didn't push me very hard on any questions except at the very end, but only for a minute. I asked him what his recommendation would be, but he kind of dodged the question and made some vague comments about me reacting to some of the questions and that HQ would have to sort it out. It doesn't sound like a good sign... I hope I'm not another victim of this process!


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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Reply Reply #11 - Mar 18^th, 2008 at 10:59pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55, why don't we wait to find out the results of your examination, before you go running out to join the revolution... Sackett


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Sergeant1107 God Member Offline Posts: 730 Location: Connecticut, USA Joined: May 21^st, 2005 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #12 - Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 9:39am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 2:52am: Rather than trying to "figure out" the process, why not go in and be honest. Completely honest. Do not try to beat it, you'll come off looking like your trying to hide something or guilty of something. It sounds like he did that the first time and he did not pass. Wouldn't a reasonable person want to "figure out" how he could tell the truth on a test that purportedly detects deception and yet still not pass?

	Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #13 - Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Sarge, it seems to me that being 100% truthful is NOT something one has to "figure out." Sackett


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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #14 - Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 8:34pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm: Sarge, it seems to me that being 100% truthful is NOT something one has to "figure out." Sackett Well, Truth is that being 100% truthfull does not ensure you a passed Poligraph test!!
	« Last Edit: Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 9:53pm by notguilty1 »

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