Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) RCMP polygraph... wow you were right. (Read 112096 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box wes99
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 14th, 2008
RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Feb 14th, 2008 at 5:18pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I am going to attempt to make a long story short here… Almost a year ago I applied to the RCMP in Canada; I thought it would be a good job for a variety of reasons. I have a University degree; and had been employed overseas for several years. I did well on the written test, physical test and then the interview. Next came the polygraph, to be honest I was always skeptic about the polygraph (who isn’t?) so I did a little of research on the internet, I found this site and briefly looked over it. I basically decided that I would trust the RCMP and believed that if I was 100% honest I would pass the “test”, I guess I thought this site was alarmist and perhaps not reliable. Huge mistake. 

Well you can guess what happened if I’m writing here. Yes I “failed” the test. I maintained my innocence in the post interrogation. I left feeling perplexed and very disappointed. The next day I went to my old University library to research the polygraph and figure out how it was possible to fail while being truthful. My jaw almost hit the floor when I read The Polygraph and Lie Detection written by the National Research Council in 2003 concerned about inaccuracy of polygraphs. Equally disturbing was the 1981 report, A Tremor in the Blood by famous psychologist Dr. David Lykken, also illuminating the short-comings of the polygraph. Lastly, I studied, The Lie Detectors: The History of an American Obsession by historian Dr. Ken Alder published in 2007. All three books ultimately conclude that the polygraph has no scientific basis and people frequently fail the test while telling the truth. I wanted to read a current source supporting the polygraph with scientific evidence however; I could not find any at my library.

I was so angry that I “failed” this “test” that I wrote a letter to the RCMP and told them I wanted to be removed from the recruitment process, why would I want to work for someone who thinks I am a criminal? For god sakes if I was a criminal why would I want to work in the lions den!? Several weeks later they gave me a call to talk, I said why would I want to work for someone who thinks I am a liar? They said “fine that is your choice”… and that was that.

I am ultimately writing this for a few reasons I guess.

1.      To get it off my chest and put yet another story out there about how polygraphs do not work.
2.      To encourage anyone reading this to go to the library and research the polygraph. You don’t have to believe me or this website. Take 30 min at the library and you will see that the polygraph works about as well as flipping a coin…. Simply unbelievable but true. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box nomegusto
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 75
Joined: Nov 26th, 2007
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #1 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:21pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm sort of confused here. 

You stated you failed the polygraph, but there still trying to recruit you.

One I don't think they accused of being a liar. They were saying you showed possible deception during the test, which could've of been cleared on a secondary polygraph. 

If they were going to allow you to take another polygraph, you might of showed inconclusive results (whick meant the machine could not accuratly determine(ok, the polygrapher) whether you were deceptive or not. 

As much as I'm not a fan of prescreening for employment, I personally feel giving up is almost worst then being accused. After seeing this site, and knowing how the machine worked. I'd go back in there with my head held high, and retake the machine. If your honest, have the qualifications, and can dispute the results of your test (which would show in a post test questioning, then you probably would of made it to the next round in the hiring process. 

Just my two cents. Good luck in your future ventures.
  

semper paratus
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Question Everything
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 13th, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #2 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:54pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
What I don't understand about the polygraph test is how an employer, such as a local police department, can hold anything against an applicant who researches the polygraph exam.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like most agencies and/or examiners will brand you a liar or a cheat for doing research on a test.  This is, of course, if you disclose the information to them prior to taking the polygraph examination.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box nomegusto
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 75
Joined: Nov 26th, 2007
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 8:06pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Negative Question:

The one time I did have a problem was when I didn't do the research. That caused for conflict. It's widely known that the majority of appilicants can and will look up information online before a polygraph. Saying you didn't honestly leads to possible deception. Albeit more or less stupidity. 

  

semper paratus
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Question Everything
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 13th, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #4 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 9:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I get the feeling that these individuals wouldn't appreciate being told how one could possibly fool the machine, and their profession.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box nopolycop
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 383
Joined: Oct 20th, 2007
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:49am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
And... "Another one bites the dust hey!, another one bites the dust!"

Okay, it looses something without music.  Wes99, you were the victim of a false positive, which happens with quite some frequency in pre-employment screening for LE jobs.  You are also known as collateral damage, the agencies don't give a rat's ass about you personally, they have plenty of applicants, and they are willing to accuse honest people of lying just to weed out those who might not be a good candidate, because frankly, polygraphs are cheaper than background investigations.

Best of luck with whatever career you choose.  If I had it to do over again knowing what I know now, I am pretty certain LE would not be my first choice.  I am glad I am about done with my career.
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #6 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 9:45am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
You must be withholding information.  The machine doesn't lie.

You may be sitting there THINKING your telling the truth, but if the machine shows deception, well, then you must not be telling them everything they want to hear.

Any questions?

And don't bore me with the opinion of some rinky-dink entity like the "National Academy of Sciences", they're just a bunch of BIASED SCIENTISTS!

Sackett

P.S.  Based on my experience, false positives don't happen frequently enough to worry about it.  How do I know that?  Just TRUST ME, I know, I am a professional polygrapher
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EJohnson
Limited (No Attachments)
Offline


Internet Countermeasures
Yields Failed Tests

Posts: 176
Joined: Oct 23rd, 2007
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #7 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 1:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
  

All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, &&all men are Socrates.-----Woody Allen  &&
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 5:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
T.M. Cullen wrote on Feb 17th, 2008 at 9:45am:
You must be withholding information.  The machine doesn't lie.

You may be sitting there THINKING your telling the truth, but if the machine shows deception, well, then you must not be telling them everything they want to hear.

Any questions?


And don't bore me with the opinion of some rinky-dink entity like the "National Academy of Sciences", they're just a bunch of BIASED SCIENTISTS!

Sackett

P.S.  Based on my experience, false positives don't happen frequently enough to worry about it.  How do I know that?  Just TRUST ME, I know, I am a professional polygrapher


You don't know how many "fasle positives" there really are since, if the "machine" says your lying and there is no subsequent proof that your not, that test is considered accurate.

Trusting you because your a professional poligrapher is no reason to trust you.
You have trained for a few weeks to operate a machine that is scientifiacally unable to accualy do what is is supposed to do, that is unfortunatly used to mess up peoples lives.

HOW DO I KNOW??? TRUST ME I WAS A VICTIM OF A FALSE POSITIVE!!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 6:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Notguilty,

I was just kidding.  You obviously took my post as serious.

I was being sarcastic and doing a poor imitation of one of our board's polygraphers.

I too was a false positive.

  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 4:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
T.M. Cullen wrote on Feb 17th, 2008 at 6:27pm:
Notguilty,

I was just kidding.  You obviously took my post as serious.

I was being sarcastic and doing a poor imitation of one of our board's polygraphers.

I too was a false positive.



LOL LOL Hey Larry I got it NOW !! LOL.
I guess when I read it it sounded like something a poligrapher would say.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box wes99
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 14th, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 7:21pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I just don’t know what to say about someone who thinks the dozens of doctors and scientists that make up the National Research Council are “rinkey-dink”…    

All I know is that my personal experience with a polygraph seemed like something out of George Orwell’s novel 1984. I told the truth, and was then told I was a lair by a man who met me 3 hours earlier. The only way to describe it is as bizarre.   

Yes, I believe they may have been calling me to take a re-test (or in some cases I have heard that they move you on even after you “fail” the test) I guess I could have gone in with my head held high and taken the test again, however I started to ask myself several questions:

1.Do I want to be subjected to polygraph tests throughout my career?   
2.Knowing what I know now, (that polygraphs do not work) do I even want to work for an employer who claims that they do? 

Look, with 1 hour at the library it becomes plain to see that the debate about polygraph validity has been over for almost 30 years. They don’t work. It seems morally and ethically wrong to brand people liars based on this faulty machine. I guess it’s cheaper than a background check and perhaps it helps prevent criminals from applying for LE jobs, but who knows how many qualified non-criminals it also prevents from applying! Also, it may be cheaper than a background check but clearly not as accurate.

I just feel after my personal experience and a bit of research that polygraphs are a total sham. Perhaps the only exception to this is the “guilty knowledge test” that appears to have at least some validity, but is impossible to use in pre-screening.  If I have to buy into the myth of the polygraph in order to work in LE, then I guess a career in LE wasn’t for me all along anyway. That’s fine. Off to graduate school in the fall. Thank you for all the support and even the negativity. I love free speech and wouldn’t want it any other way.   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box wes99
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 14th, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 7:30pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Oh I'm sorry Larry, I honestly thought you were serious! HA! 

To be honest that is pretty much how the polygraph examiner talked to me. Very rude, he had a high and mighty attitude and said all the negative things written about the polygraph were bullshit... at the time I hardly knew what he was talking about, since I had not researched the topic yet, only spent a few moments on this site. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:33pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
notguilty1 wrote on Feb 18th, 2008 at 4:44pm:
T.M. Cullen wrote on Feb 17th, 2008 at 6:27pm:
Notguilty,

I was just kidding.  You obviously took my post as serious.

I was being sarcastic and doing a poor imitation of one of our board's polygraphers.

I too was a false positive.



LOL LOL Hey Larry I got it NOW !! LOL.
I guess when I read it it sounded like something a poligrapher would say.


You know Larry, I get it too.  I don't mind being challenged with opinion, inuendo and (so-called) experience but for you to attept to imitate me, write some garbage then sign MY name to it!  This is a time when imitiation is NOT flattery.  Not everyone who reads this is focused enough to research the posting line to see that you were writing something as me, AS IF you could...   

If you don't have the decency to challenge or interact with me directly with something more than sarcasm and self-righteousness, then don't bother.  I gotta tell you, you have truly shown yourself to be an unworthy and dishonest adversary.   

Sackett 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.
Reply #14 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 2:21am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Sackett,

Have you ever "suckered" a test subject into making some minor admission so you could blow it all out of proportion to justify a "reaction" on your ouija board machine?

Your pattern of posting indicates that you have.  In additon, the pattern of bird droppings in my office parking lot show you are being deceptive.

So "come clean" and admit it.! 

Does it bother you that you may be victimizing innocent people in that way, while  the guilty go free?

Shame on you!

"Not everyone who reads this is focused enough to research the posting line to see that you were writing something as me, AS IF you could...  "

How does it feel to have you're reputation smeared unfairly, like polygraphers do on a regular basis.

My gosh, you guys squeal like "stuck pigs", when you get your own medicine!

« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2008 at 2:49am by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RCMP polygraph... wow you were right.

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X