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for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? (Read 8395 times)

KOM New User Offline Posts: 1 Joined: Dec 22^nd, 2007	for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Dec 22^nd, 2007 at 1:35am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	when you apply the countermeasures do you apply the tongue biting technique as he asks you the questions or do you wait til he asks the questions? same with the controlled breathing? also has anybody used the tongue biting method only and passed even tho they lied?


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WJ User Offline Posts: 30 Location: Washington D.C. Joined: Jul 14^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #1 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 12:06am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Don't do that technique. They watch your face. Just breath natural during relevant questions and use mental CMs and the pucker factor during control questions.

	Counter-measures were easy.
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EJohnson Limited (No Attachments) Offline Internet Countermeasures Yields Failed Tests Posts: 176 Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #2 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 2:55pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	To my knowledge, seat cushion countermeasure detectors are standard issue for ALL federal examiners. WJ claims to have used sphincter countermeasures on a Secret Service exam. Bullshit.

	All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, &&all men are Socrates.-----Woody Allen &&
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WJ User Offline Posts: 30 Location: Washington D.C. Joined: Jul 14^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #3 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:19pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I did but you don't use your butt muscles. Pucker using about 20% to 30%. On the last round of questioning I did not use them just the mental counter-measures. Also it was not the SS, that is the test I failed. I took the test for another agency and passed after using CMs.

	Counter-measures were easy.
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #4 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:55pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	EJohnson wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 2:55pm: To my knowledge, seat cushion countermeasure detectors are standard issue for ALL federal examiners. In spite of the claim that countermeasures don't work!!!

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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SanchoPanza Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 343 Joined: Dec 8^th, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #5 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 4:49pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	WJ wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:19pm: I did but you don't use your butt muscles. Pucker using about 20% to 30%. On the last round of questioning I did not use them just the mental counter-measures. Also it was not the SS, that is the test I failed. I took the test for another agency and passed after using CMs. Exactly how much is 20% to 30% of your rectum. I mean, did your head still fit? Sancho Panza

	Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Hunter User Offline Posts: 39 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #6 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 4:53pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nopolycop wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:55pm: EJohnson wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 2:55pm: To my knowledge, seat cushion countermeasure detectors are standard issue for ALL federal examiners. In spite of the claim that countermeasures don't work!!! Have you ever considered that examiner's do advance as you advance in countermeasures? You do a pucker, we have a pucker pad. Each and every tactic developed has a counter and we do study and use the counter tactics on those that use counter measures. We are not perfect, we do make mistakes. WJ, You are a total idiot and your advice is so out of touch with the real world, I won't even respond with reasoning, it would be wasted on you.


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WJ User Offline Posts: 30 Location: Washington D.C. Joined: Jul 14^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #7 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 4:55pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	SanchoPanza wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 4:49pm: WJ wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:19pm: I did but you don't use your butt muscles. Pucker using about 20% to 30%. On the last round of questioning I did not use them just the mental counter-measures. Also it was not the SS, that is the test I failed. I took the test for another agency and passed after using CMs. Exactly how much is 20% to 30% of your rectum. I mean, did your head still fit? Sancho Panza Not 100% preasure but 20-30%.

	Counter-measures were easy.
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #8 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 7:57pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hunter wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 4:53pm: nopolycop wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 3:55pm: EJohnson wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 2:55pm: To my knowledge, seat cushion countermeasure detectors are standard issue for ALL federal examiners. In spite of the claim that countermeasures don't work!!! Have you ever considered that examiner's do advance as you advance in countermeasures? You do a pucker, we have a pucker pad. Each and every tactic developed has a counter and we do study and use the counter tactics on those that use counter measures. This appears to be an implied admission that countermeasures actually do work, thus the need to develop anti-countermeasure devices and tactics. Would this be correct?

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Hunter User Offline Posts: 39 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #9 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:36am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	This appears to be an implied admission that countermeasures actually do work, thus the need to develop anti-countermeasure devices and tactics. Would this be correct? Read again please. There are counters to counters, does that sound like they work? Not to me at all. My statement is clear and to the point, you develop a countermeasure and we will develop a counter-counter measure. Including but not limited to physical and mental counter countermeasures.


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WJ User Offline Posts: 30 Location: Washington D.C. Joined: Jul 14^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #10 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 2:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hunter wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:36am: This appears to be an implied admission that countermeasures actually do work, thus the need to develop anti-countermeasure devices and tactics. Would this be correct? Read again please. There are counters to counters, does that sound like they work? Not to me at all. My statement is clear and to the point, you develop a countermeasure and we will develop a counter-counter measure. Including but not limited to physical and mental counter countermeasures. You might want to read this sites policy with regards to personal attacks. However, you say that pad works but it does not, at least not at the level I used it. I went through that whole test and she did not say one word to me about counter-measures. If she suspected it than she did not say a word. The only time she mentioned anything was when she said for me to stop thinking about my breathing and concentrate on the questions. That's it and I PASSED. Oh and what is your CM to the mental CM? DO you have a pad for that? I showed a normal breathing through out the whole process with the exception of when I was asked control questions. What a joke.

	Counter-measures were easy.
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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #11 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 3:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	WJ The only CM to mental CMs is mind reading and only our Creator can do that. However, with the power polygraphers have, all they have to do is say that the applicant used CMs and he is through. I hope you make an outstanding LEO.


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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #12 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 3:28pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hunter wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:36am: This appears to be an implied admission that countermeasures actually do work, thus the need to develop anti-countermeasure devices and tactics. Would this be correct? Read again please. There are counters to counters, does that sound like they work? Not to me at all. My statement is clear and to the point, you develop a countermeasure and we will develop a counter-counter measure. Including but not limited to physical and mental counter countermeasures. The point that I am trying to make is that there would be no need to develop a counter to a counter measure, if that counter measure didn't work, as the polygraphers here state with so much passion. The mere fact that the poly industry have developed the butt pad indicates that it is possible to alter the outcome of the physiological recordings of the polygraph machine, by using counter measures. Recently, someone indicated that an examiner asked them to do a math question, with an apparent attempt to show the examinee that the poly could detect this counter measure. The recent studies trying to prove that countermeasures hurt, and not help the examinee also inidicates that the poly industry is VERY ocncerned that once the use of counter measured become common place, their tenious position in the industry will become even more tenious. Sorry Hunter, as they say in my neck of the woods, "That dog don't hunt."

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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EJohnson Limited (No Attachments) Offline Internet Countermeasures Yields Failed Tests Posts: 176 Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2007	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #13 - Jan 8^th, 2008 at 9:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: The point that I am trying to make is that there would be no need to develop a counter to a counter measure, if that counter measure didn't work, as the polygraphers here state with so much passion Oh countermeasures work alright, they work as well as say, spitting tobacco in a urine sample for a UA. Such countermeasures do not fool people in the intrepid sense. They merely obstruct in the most optimistic sense, but ruin the credibility in most situations. If I puke on my SAT answer sheet, will I have "beaten the test.?" The testor will not have known my aptitude range for college admissions---so in that sense I won a booby prize. But the test monitor who watches exams might suspect that the person cheated on an official college entrance exam, thereby tainting the student forever as an academic crook or an obstructionist. So if the SAT's cannot "be beat"---then why have a monitor to watch testers? answer; just in case a witness is needed later. Same with the butt pad. The pad component is only a "witness component" that serves to indicate where a countermeasure is coming from----as the charts will have the "artificial look" without the pad. Plus, the instrument companies get to charge more money for the extra sensor. Quote: I hope you make an outstanding LEO. I suppose I too hope you make an outstanding lawman. But you have gotten off to a rocky start by attempting to manipulate your investigaters. Sometimes young men believe that because something seems counterintuitive (doesn't make sense to ya) it must be wrong. This is called "inductive reasoning"---meaning, if it doesn't make sense to you or contradicts your beliefs, then it must be wrong. WJ, you need to take a more thoughtful approach to matters of protocol.

	All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, &&all men are Socrates.-----Woody Allen &&
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Hunter User Offline Posts: 39 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: for anyone who has used countermeasures and passed? Reply #14 - Jan 9^th, 2008 at 4:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	[highlight]WJ, You are a total idiot and your advice is so out of touch with the real world, I won't even respond with reasoning, it would be wasted on you.[/highlight] I have been warned by the administrator of this site that my statement was not civil and I must cease using such language. My apologizes for the above posted language in reference to you. I will cease posting in this thread. Good luck in your endeavors with a LEO career.


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