Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Calling all polygraphers (Read 19949 times)
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Calling all polygraphers
Jan 7th, 2008 at 4:58pm
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Polygraphers that come to this site seem to hold themselves on such a pedestal...but they are just the same as everyone else here...they have done things that are questionable, they have made bad decisions, and they have lied. Don't let their holier than thou attitude intimidate you. They have a job to do and I respect that...this is their career, but they are just everyday joes like the rest of us. Do polygraphers need to take a polygraph to get that job? If they did, I wonder if they would be nervous and how many would practice countermeasures?

The reason they make statements like "countermeasures don't work!" and "you will get caught!", is the same reason they give you the little speech in the polygraph pre-interview about how the polygraph will detect any lie, even little white lies...to scare you into making confessions.  I am suggesting people lie about major crimes or affiliations with bad people, but using countermeasures, even if just mental cm's and breathing techniques, is very smart. How can anyone suggest that being educated and taking steps to ensure your success is wrong or stupid? Countermeasures are not illegal and there is nothing immoral about using them as long as you are not a criminal or have contact with criminals.

I am sure that any polygrapher that reads this will go right to my other posts and start copying and pasting statements that I have made instead of just addressing the words that I am saying...because that is what they normally do to avoid the facts...bit I figured I would state my opinion anyway.

Chris
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 5:24pm
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Correction to previous post:

"I am suggesting people..." should read "I am not suggesting people..."
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 5:33pm
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chrismcphee33 wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 4:58pm:
Polygraphers that come to this site seem to hold themselves on such a pedestal...but they are just the same as everyone else here...they have done things that are questionable, they have made bad decisions, and they have lied. Don't let their holier than thou attitude intimidate you. They have a job to do and I respect that...this is their career, but they are just everyday joes like the rest of us. Do polygraphers need to take a polygraph to get that job? If they did, I wonder if they would be nervous and how many would practice countermeasures?

The reason they make statements like "countermeasures don't work!" and "you will get caught!", is the same reason they give you the little speech in the polygraph pre-interview about how the polygraph will detect any lie, even little white lies...to scare you into making confessions.  I am suggesting people lie about major crimes or affiliations with bad people, but using countermeasures, even if just mental cm's and breathing techniques, is very smart. How can anyone suggest that being educated and taking steps to ensure your success is wrong or stupid? Countermeasures are not illegal and there is nothing immoral about using them as long as you are not a criminal or have contact with criminals.

I am sure that any polygrapher that reads this will go right to my other posts and start copying and pasting statements that I have made instead of just addressing the words that I am saying...because that is what they normally do to avoid the facts...bit I figured I would state my opinion anyway.  
Chris


Interesting opinion ChrisMcphee33   especially coming from someone who as never taken a polygraph test or USED COUNTERMEASURES and is only HOPING his planned countermeasures work, because when  they DON'T WORK. he may NEVER WORK IN LAW ENFORCMENT.
Why are you so worried that someone might cut and paste one of your previous posts? Surely you aren't afraid of your own words. Roll Eyes
"suggesting people lie"  perhaps a freudian slip?
Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 5:39pm
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SanchoPanza wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 5:33pm:
chrismcphee33 wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 4:58pm:
Polygraphers that come to this site seem to hold themselves on such a pedestal...but they are just the same as everyone else here...they have done things that are questionable, they have made bad decisions, and they have lied. Don't let their holier than thou attitude intimidate you. They have a job to do and I respect that...this is their career, but they are just everyday joes like the rest of us. Do polygraphers need to take a polygraph to get that job? If they did, I wonder if they would be nervous and how many would practice countermeasures?

The reason they make statements like "countermeasures don't work!" and "you will get caught!", is the same reason they give you the little speech in the polygraph pre-interview about how the polygraph will detect any lie, even little white lies...to scare you into making confessions.  I am suggesting people lie about major crimes or affiliations with bad people, but using countermeasures, even if just mental cm's and breathing techniques, is very smart. How can anyone suggest that being educated and taking steps to ensure your success is wrong or stupid? Countermeasures are not illegal and there is nothing immoral about using them as long as you are not a criminal or have contact with criminals.

I am sure that any polygrapher that reads this will go right to my other posts and start copying and pasting statements that I have made instead of just addressing the words that I am saying...because that is what they normally do to avoid the facts...bit I figured I would state my opinion anyway.  
Chris


Interesting opinion ChrisMcphee33   especially coming from someone who as never taken a polygraph test or USED COUNTERMEASURES and is only HOPING his planned countermeasures work, because when  they DON'T WORK. he may NEVER WORK IN LAW ENFORCMENT.
Why are you so worried that someone might cut and paste one of your previous posts? Surely you aren't afraid of your own words. Roll Eyes
"suggesting people lie"  perhaps a freudian slip?
Sancho Panza

If CMs don't work then you would not be on this site.
  

Counter-measures were easy.
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 5:47pm
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Sancho Panza, your response is very typical...you really can't disagree with anything I say, so instead you YELL AT ME.
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:02pm
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Interesting opinion ChrisMcphee33   especially coming from someone who as never taken a polygraph test or USED COUNTERMEASURES and is only HOPING his planned countermeasures work, because when  they DON'T WORK. he may NEVER WORK IN LAW ENFORCMENT.
Why are you so worried that someone might cut and paste one of your previous posts? Surely you aren't afraid of your own words.
"suggesting people lie"  perhaps a freudian slip?


Sancho Panza, I find it interesteing how you try and get your message across and put ideas in peoples heads...look at the words that are in CAPS:

USED COUNTERMEASURES
HOPING
DON'T WORK
NEVER WORK IN LAW ENFORCMENT

This goes along with what I said about trying to scare uneducated people. You count on people having doubt.  PEOPLE should NOT have DOUBT...using COUNTERMEASURES is SMART.
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:30pm
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regardless of the font or emphasis used, the fact remains, you have never taken a polygraph test. you have never tried using countermeasures  during a polygraph test, so you don't know whether or not they will work. you are only hoping they will work so you can pass your upcoming examination. i have suggested  you should go ahead and try.

Here you are, telling people how well they work and all you really know is contained in what you have read. why don't you go buy a book on cardiac surgery and report to the hospital maybe they will let you  crack a couple of chests this afternoon or you could read abook about how to translate eastern languages and mr. mashke will give you a job doing translations for him.

Sanco Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:48pm
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Your comparing a polygraph test to cardiac surgery and language translation? We are talking about a person relying on a bp machine to tell if you are lying or not...not complicated science.

Of course I will take the test, I have no choice if I want this job. I am, and will be quite confident because I am well educated, I have prepared myself, and I know the examiner is just a person trying to get me to confess to what a bad person I am. I am not just crossing my fingers and hoping they will work, I know that answering the questions while using mental counter measures is the smartest thing I can do to get past a process that is far from perfect.

Are you a polygrapher? Did you have to take a polygraph test to get your job? If they made you take one to keep your job, a job which you obviously have a passion for..which is great...would you be nervous?
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 7:22pm
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SanchoPanza wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:30pm:
why don't you go buy a book on cardiac surgery and report to the hospital maybe they will let you  crack a couple of chests this afternoon

Sanco Panza



Yo Sancho, can you sign me up for the 10 week trade school that teaches cardiac surgery?  Grin
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #9 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 7:27pm
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chrismcphee33 wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:48pm:
Of course I will take the test, I have no choice if I want this job. ?


Before you sit down for the polygraph, ask the polygrapher what chance there is that you can tell the absolute truth, but yet have his opinion reflect that he believes you are not truthful?  Because, in reality, one cannot PASS or FAIL a polygraph, although those are the words commonly used.  What occurs is the polygrapher makes an educated guess as to your truthfulness.

For last polygraph I took, I did exactly that.  The examiner told me about 90%, which I felt was a reasonable answer, given I already knew what the answer should be.  I then said, "Well, with that in mind, let's get to it."
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 7:33pm
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chrismcphee33 why don't we just let time and the RCMP reveal your ignorance.

Nopoly  All I have to say to you is...




Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 7:38pm
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Sancho, you are avoiding my question...I am genuinly interested to know.

Did you have to take a polygraph test to get your job? If they made you take one to keep your job, a job which you obviously have a passion for..which is great...would you be nervous?
  
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 8:05pm
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Everyone is a little nervous when they take any test. If mere nervousness were the cause of a "failed" test, than no one could never pass the test. So, your baited question is obviously just that.

Quote:
I know that answering the questions while using mental counter measures is the smartest thing I can do to get past a process that is far from perfect.

....and so you my man, are also far from perfect. I look forward to your story after your test. Remember, there are thousands of tests administered every year---and TLBTLD has been downloaded tens of thousands of times. Funny how there is a conspicuous absence of success stories on this forum. I recall 3 or 4 people who seem fairly mentally odd claiming that they defeated the test. Hmmm, 3 or 4 versus tens of thousands of downloads.
If antipolygraph were an online weight loss plan, you would be suspicious if all the cheerleaders were morbidly obese. Think about it.

Polygraph Examiners are here because we know that the phony advice causes more pain than helps. If this site stated that if you stuck a butter knife in a power outlet, that you would be able to gain super strength----electricians would be on this site, not because they were scared and jealous such activity was potent, but that such activity harmed people.
  

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All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, &&all men are Socrates.-----Woody Allen  &&
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 8:48pm
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CP33
I have taken polygraph tests  and yes I was nervous. However, I have an extremely strong sense of honor and integrity (unlike some exhibited here I might add) that would and did prevent me from lying and cheating just to get a job. Once again this appears foreign to some here. Based on your previous statements this group includes you.

I, for one, would not want a job that I had to lie or cheat to get and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want a job they had to lie or cheat to get. You and I obviously disagree about that. My position on that subject isn’t likely to change.

There is something fundamentally wrong with those who endorse lying and cheating as a justifiable means to obtain a position of trust knowing that if they are successful they will be required to swear an oath promising to be trustworthy, truthful and honest. It is wrong there is no way that it can be right and I don’t care who else or how many are willing to prostitute their integrity for personal gain or status, it will never be right.

Had I failed a polygraph test, I would not build a website or co-write a book that repeatedly tells the reader it is OK to lie and deliberately conceal information as well as offering suggestions regarding ways and means to attempt conceal criminal activity in order to cheat the testing process, nor would I appear on such a website trying to tell people that cheating on a polygraph test is OK because I didn’t get a job I thought I deserved.

I am learning that trying to explain honor to the dishonorable, honesty to the dishonest, and trust to the untrustworthy is a bit like trying to explain sound to someone born deaf or color to someone born blind, They just lack a frame of reference for the discussion.

Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Re: Calling all polygraphers
Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 9:56pm
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SanchoPanza wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 8:48pm:
CP33
I have taken polygraph tests  and yes I was nervous. However, I have an extremely strong sense of honor and integrity (unlike some exhibited here I might add) that would and did prevent me from lying and cheating just to get a job. Once again this appears foreign to some here. Based on your previous statements this group includes you.

I, for one, would not want a job that I had to lie or cheat to get and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want a job they had to lie or cheat to get. You and I obviously disagree about that. My position on that subject isn’t likely to change.

There is something fundamentally wrong with those who endorse lying and cheating as a justifiable means to obtain a position of trust knowing that if they are successful they will be required to swear an oath promising to be trustworthy, truthful and honest. It is wrong there is no way that it can be right and I don’t care who else or how many are willing to prostitute their integrity for personal gain or status, it will never be right.

Had I failed a polygraph test, I would not build a website or co-write a book that repeatedly tells the reader it is OK to lie and deliberately conceal information as well as offering suggestions regarding ways and means to attempt conceal criminal activity in order to cheat the testing process, nor would I appear on such a website trying to tell people that cheating on a polygraph test is OK because I didn’t get a job I thought I deserved.

I am learning that trying to explain honor to the dishonorable, honesty to the dishonest, and trust to the untrustworthy is a bit like trying to explain sound to someone born deaf or color to someone born blind, They just lack a frame of reference for the discussion.

Sancho Panza

That is a bold statement seeing as how polygraphers lie and cheat as part of their jobs.  You can't tell me that polygraphers are 100% truthful when discussing the polygraph. Huh
  

Counter-measures were easy.
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Calling all polygraphers

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