I am applying to a couple LE Departments, one of which is LAPD. I took a Poly with LAPD some time ago, and despite complete honesty on my part, I was DQ'ed for being "deceptive." I began doing research on polygraphy, and decided to re-apply with LAPD and another LE agency. I employed countermeasures on my poly with this other LE agency, and passed without a problem. I then showed up to my poly with LAPD, and employed the same countermeasures; the results weren't what I expected. At the end of the 3 test cycles, the examiner left the room. When the examiner returned, he claimed that my breathing was "clearly  artificial." He began asking about which websites I had researched about countermeasures. He said that if I told him, he can "try to atleast get me a re-test." From my research, I knew that he was just fishing for a confession. I denied all claims of using CM's, and he said the results were going to be looked at byanother examiner and personnel should contact me. 

I really thought the examiner might've been bluffing, but apparently not...I recently found out that my results indicated that I used CM's, and that I was probably gonna have to re-take the poly.

Has anybody experienced anything like this? If I am given a chance to take another poly, should I try using the CM's again? Does anybody know if examiners compare charts (my breathing during the last poly versus my breathing during my upcoming poly?)

George,

I agree completely. By the way, have you heard of anybody get hired even after their polygraph results indicate the use of CM's?

Thanks for your thoughts guys...

I don't know why LAPD wouldn't consider me a good fit as an officer...I have my Bachelor's Degree, never been arrested, never tried drugs, and an overall clean background in every respect. 

I just hope that if I am given another chance at taking the Poly, the examiner will not have pre-determined that i will fail the exam, based on the results of my last Poly. I guess I'll find out.

Any thoughts?

Nonombre,

To get this response I must have really struck a nerve, I wonder what your F3 responses would have been had you been hooked up. Most likely deemed deceptive of course. Now to dissect your posts. You always give me such great and wonderful things to work with.

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He was accused of using countermeasures, not proved and not shaken. And asked to come back for a retest. In your own words, a candidate is never asked back if caught using countermeasures. Nice try but not substantiated. He beat the system and the system default is always the countermeasure charge.

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A fact has proven truth and is reliable in its scope, and maintains its value time and again. Something the polygraph cannot do !! You polygraphers may have changed your questioning techniques to remove control/relevant techniques to make it harder for the examinee to figure out what is happening and identify them. But the process and the interrogation techniques remain the same. Defeating the polygraph only requires disbelief, and practice at relaxing, and its the greatest fear you polygraphers have. Once the fear is gone, no adrenal reactions or F3 responses. I have now proven this many times in over the recent year with those I have tutored. Your R/I questions are of no consequence, as they are of the least reliable of the formats, if the polygraph had any reliability at all. Funny I never see any response when I post the 3 things you have to make your polygraph work. Remove the fear, give the examinee knowlege, and they relax. And no amount of pretest psychological prep work is going to change the result. And now that I have figured out the questioning changes, I will make sure that those I mentor are well prepared. 

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This was the easy question, lets see where to begin. Doe the Rampart scandal come to mind, racial profiling by LAPD, planting evidence to convict gang bangers, ( this really doesn't bother me), but it still wrong. Some of the guilty move to personnel after the scandal. Over a 70% denial rate by LAPD on hiring, especially to women and minorities. And lets see, the polygraph is a filter, pure and simple. And lets see if you don't pass the polygraph, you don't get hired. And I know you don't think that the 70% that is denied a job, all had hidden issues that disqualified them. It the perfect management tool to avoid lawsuits from job descrimination. And its also perfect to remove those that just don't fit the LAPD mold to be an officer.  Certainly sounds like a filter to me, and because the determination is final. Wahlah, disqualified without anyway to fight it. And let me remind you of one of your notible polygraph experts, Roy Ortiz, recently demoted for changing polygraph results on candidates he deemed not fitting the LAPD model. How much more proof do you need. There is a link for the Roy Ortiz debacle  here on the site:

Link: https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1182068515

You can read all about it. I never post a comment or statement without having the firepower to back it up. But do continue to call on anything you feel I am wrong about. I think I have covered it all.

Regards  

nonombre wrote on Aug 4^th, 2007 at 8:09pm:


Ombre,
The problem starts with polygraphy. Why do we have to tell the subject to sit still and breathe normally?
what is normal breathing in a stressed situation. Generally, these are ordinary folk,  trying to get on with
their lives. They will be stressed in the p/g situation. Their breathing will be somewhat erratic.

The very fact that a subject has to be told to breathe normally is where the BS starts.

I have seen subjects 'trying to breathe normally' and often it was quite amusing. It's such BS and you
know it too.

Just have the cogones to admit it.