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Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT (Read 11680 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #15 - Jul 13^th, 2007 at 4:53am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: so then what are questions such as is the room blue... and are examinees always supposed to lie to these??? That's an example of an irrelevant question, and a truthful answer is expected. See Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for a detailed explanation of polygraph procedure.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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1904 Ex Member	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #16 - Jul 13^th, 2007 at 10:10am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: the alien people were very welcoming... so then what are questions such as is the room blue... and are examinees always supposed to lie to these??? "Is the room blue?" - Is an Irrelevant Question (IQ) aka a 'Known Truth' question. IE - you are obviously sitting in the room, so you know whether its blue or whatever colour. Your answer to that Q will be a known truth to both you and the examiner. However, it sounds more like a VSA IQ than a P/G IQ. VSA IQ's and CQ's (as practised by VSA only examiners) are generally bordering on the ridiculous. Lastly, I think you are simply having a bit of fun here. Methinks you are an examiner.


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PussyLiquor Ex Member	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #17 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 4:08am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	No no guys... I am no examiner... I am trying to learn as much about the poly as possible because after reading georges story and many others I decided to support the movement toward the obliteration of these terrible devices!!!! All three polys I have taken... 2 serious... once practice with no consequences I have beat... but only barely. I want to learn more. I could swear that on my first (administered by a state LE agency for a sworn position) I heard him tell me to lie to the color in the room to see how my lies look on paper.... you guys are telling me the opposite... please explain


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Administrator Administrator Offline Posts: 343 Joined: Sep 28^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #18 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 4:04pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
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jkf1007 Guest	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #19 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	took a polygraph for an opening with a local fire department. the results showed a deception which was not true! this info was included in the Civil Service Commission's meeting minutes which were posted on-line. are they allowed to do this?


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #20 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:36pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: took a polygraph for an opening with a local fire department. the results showed a deception which was not true! this info was included in the Civil Service Commission's meeting minutes which were posted on-line. are they allowed to do this? How did this come about? Did you have an appeal hearing before the commission?

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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jkf1007 Guest	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #21 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:39pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Poly was part of the pre-employment testing. the minutes listed applicants that were to be removed from the eligible list due to "deception on the polygraph." minutes were posted on-line


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #22 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:48pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	jkf1007, It seems highly inappropriate to me for a civil service commission to publicly brand job applicants as liars in this manner. (Whether it's legal is another question, the answer to which I do not know.) Of course, it's inappropriate to begin with that applicants for any job should be required to "pass" such a thoroughly discredited and invalid "test" as the polygraph to begin with. This is an issue that you might want to take up with your city representatives and the local news desks of newspapers, radio, and television stations in your city.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #23 - Mar 13^th, 2009 at 2:23pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: took a polygraph for an opening with a local fire department. the results showed a deception which was not true! this info was included in the Civil Service Commission's meeting minutes which were posted on-line. are they allowed to do this? I thought the poly was allowed for only law enforcement and national security purposes, not firefighters.

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #24 - Mar 13^th, 2009 at 3:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nopolycop wrote on Mar 13^th, 2009 at 2:23pm: I thought the poly was allowed for only law enforcement and national security purposes, not firefighters. The federal Employee Polygraph Protection Act of 1988 incudes a blanket exemption for federal, state, and local governments. So any state, county, or municipal agency can require polygraph screening of any and all employees, unless otherwise restricted by law (for example, under Minnesota law, state and local agencies are prohibited from polygraph screening of applicants and employees).

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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G Scalabr Global Moderator Offline Posts: 358 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Firefighter Pre-Employment Poly Soon:CQT Reply #25 - Mar 13^th, 2009 at 9:29pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Mar 13^th, 2009 at 3:08pm: The federal Employee Polygraph Protection Act of 1988 incudes a blanket exemption for federal, state, and local governments. So any state, county, or municipal agency can require polygraph screening of any and all employees, unless otherwise restricted by law (for example, under Minnesota law, state and local agencies are prohibited from polygraph screening of applicants and employees). George is correct as usual. Any government employee or applicant for such a positions can be polygraphed legally. This means that barring a local union contract with a stipulation prohibiting the practice of polygraphy, even the public works guys who fix holes in the street and plumb leaky faucets can be put "on the box" for any reason at the whim of management.


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