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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraphy as Pseudoscience (Read 31846 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Dec 12th, 2006 at 9:32am
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The Wikipedia entry for Pseudoscience includes a section titled "Identifying pseudoscience." I invite all to peruse this checklist and consider for themselves how polygraphy fares.
  

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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #1 - Dec 13th, 2006 at 9:29pm
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Well, there you go. That just goes to show that we can all learn something new. I now know the meaning of "granfalloon." Thanks, George.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #2 - Dec 14th, 2006 at 9:24am
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LieBabyCryBaby wrote on Dec 13th, 2006 at 9:29pm:
Well, there you go. That just goes to show that we can all learn something new. I now know the meaning of "granfalloon." Thanks, George.


The existence of polygraph granfalloons, chief amongst them the American Polygraph Association, which purports to be "Dedicated to Truth" (APA motto) but sees no ethical problem with a past president and life member falsely passing himself off as a Ph.D. in marketing his polygraph services, is but one of the many hallmarks of pseudoscience stamped all over the empty vessel of polygraphy.
« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2006 at 9:40am by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #3 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 9:20am
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Although it doesn't address polygraphy, Brian Dunning's video about critical thinking and recognizing pseudoscience, Here Be Dragons, may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=752V173e31o
« Last Edit: Sep 27th, 2014 at 1:48pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #4 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 5:30pm
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George

I agree with this video and I'm the biggest skeptic around and don't believe much until I try it myself when it come to urbal benefits. However, I think this guy is wrong when it comes to the FDA. 

I have been plagued with skin cancer for 20 years. I had four surgically removed with two returning. Then my daughter obtained a product that cured melanoma on her prize stallion. It was suggested that he be put down. He lived another 12 years. I then used it on the two carcinomas that returned. It cured them and they never returned. Then I got melanoma myself in my right temple and applied this product. Walla. It was cured. I can furnish pictures of the different stages of cure. It has cured cancers on me, three members of my family and four others 17 times without a failure. But do you think the FDA will do research on it. Hell no. Why? Because this product has been curing cancer for 100 years and pharma industries and the medical profession can't make their billions from it. I firmly believe that the FDA is the enforcement arm of the AMA and Pharma.

I will not name the product because I don't believe in advertising on someone else's website.

Like I said. I proved it on me first then others without a failure. I still don't believe the pseudoscience of polygraphy because I proved it ineffective on me first.
  
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #5 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 10:35pm
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Should that have been herbal instead of urbal? Are phonetics allowed here. lol. I do pretty good in ebonics or eubonics also.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2011 at 6:23am
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Twoblock,

The point in the video concerning the FDA is the importance of blinded clinical trials with statistically significant numbers of individuals for evaluating the effectiveness of a drug. Anecdotal evidence is not enough.

With regard to polygraphy, our personal experiences do not prove that it's not valid. Even a valid test for deception (and none has yet been devised) would have a margin of error, and inevitably some truthful persons would be wrongly classified as deceptive (and vice versa).

But polygraphy has not been proven to reliably differentiate between liars and truth-tellers under field conditions. Those who claim it is a highly accurate test for deception (who inevitably have a financial stake in polygraphy) have failed to support such claims with evidence that withstands scrutiny.

With regard to the FDA, it doesn't initiate testing of drugs. The company that wants to market a drug does so. I'm glad that your melanomas are cured, but your experience is not enough to prove that the treatment you employed is generally safe and effective.

Of course, as you noted, herbal is spelled with an "h." Some people aspirate the h, some don't, which explains how a misspelling like "urbal" can arise.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #7 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 6:52pm
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This video is nothing more than orthodox establishment thinking, and the guy who made it is nothing more than a tool for the establishment.   

He cites FDA clinical trials as the holy grail methodology of "scientific proof".  YET - he conveniently does not mention that the same FDA pulled more than 1,700 prescription drugs from the market in 2009, after they underwent the vaunted FDA clinical trial process.  Explain that one George...

Then he hocks his own book at the end of the video - but warns the viewers to watch out for such tactics.  He denigrates both chiropractors and acupuncture, which have been supported by major medical universities and centers such as John Hopkins.

And, George, if you believe the BS this "expert" is spewing then why don't you accept the controlled US government clinical studies of the polygraph.  Yeah, I know the polygraph is a very crude instrument with limited utility --- but if one were to accept the information in this video then polygraph should be accepted.  After all, the same US Government that controls the FDA controls polygraph...   

Just some food for thought my friend.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 4:43am
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skeptic too,

The FDA's 1,700 prescription drug recalls in 2009 were evidently based on manufacturing lapses, and not faulty clinical trials.

The US government has not conducted any trial of polygraphy that is remotely comparable to the FDA's clinical trial process.

As Alan Zelicoff, M.D. has observed, "If we had medical tests that had the same failure rate as a polygraph, then physicians that use those tests would be convicted of malpractice."
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #9 - Sep 27th, 2014 at 1:53pm
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Applying this checklist comparing features of science with those of pseudoscience to the field of polygraphy is instructive:
  

science-vs-pseudoscience.png ( 176 KB | Downloads )
science-vs-pseudoscience.png

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #10 - Sep 27th, 2014 at 5:23pm
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LOL...you could replaced the psuedoscience catchword with polygraphy and no one would ever know the word psuedoscience was there in the first place!!! LOL
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #11 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 12:33am
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1st4th5thand6th,

You can yuk it up until hell freezes over.

Why is that? 

Because polygraph "works" -- at least in one fashion or another.

In the grand scheme of things, that's all that matters.

Consider this:

  • Polygraph has expanded exponentially since 9/11.
    PCSOT has made inroads into the UK and beyond.
    Russia, China, India and many other nations are becoming increasingly invested in the liebox.


Polygraph is here to stay...at least until the next big thing in lie detection is more firmly is place.

To learn more about that eventuality, go here: www.converus.com

Meanwhile, you will have to reckon with the fact that life ain't fair, and Uncle Sugar hates to take chances when it comes to national security.

Yes, the deck is stacked in that regard.

That's the way it is.
  
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #12 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 1:11am
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I rarely ever comment on this board anymore, but as a scientist and engineer, 2 letters "BS". Just like fMRI was going to be the next big thing in detection of deception devices. This eye movement device delves into the same area that the fMRI tries too. That the human body has a definitive standardized response to lying. Standardized responses from human beings is a pipe dream. Which has always been the holy grail for any device that claims to be able to detect deception. And I can off the top of my head think of at least 5 OTC medicines that would not only hinder any attempt to monitor eye movements, if not completely negate reactive eye movements. Try as you might  Mr. Mangan, science and substance beats pseudoscience everytime. And once a subject is trained on how the detection of deception con is played, (pick your device), it basically renders the process useless. Or in layman's terms, once you know the magicians trick, it is far from impressive.
  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #13 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 1:32am
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EosJupiter,

So what?

The "magician's trick," as you call it, still works on most of the people most of the time.

If, for nothing else, EyeDetect will replace polygraph in federal and state government credibility assessment applications out of sheer economic superiority.

As you know, fMRI is cost-prohibitive.

Polygraph is relatively costly and decidedly high maintenance.

EyeDetect is...and please forgive the un-PC term...a God$end.

This game is all about gross percentages -- and bang for the buck.


  
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Re: Polygraphy as Pseudoscience
Reply #14 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 3:29am
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Mr Mangan,

Just like every other Detection of Deception machine, or should I say Placebo Device, its only as good as the selling job that's done with it. If you correlate Placebo Effect to any deception detection process, its one and the same. The ultimate countermeasure to be trained is "Just don't believe". Core Non-belief leads to no adrenals released, no F3 reactions, no reactions on the machine. Its that simple, and knowledge is power. Remove the fear and anxiety and you get nothing. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist, once informed,  to see any deception detection device as being worthless.  So until a device is built that can actually read the human mind, any of these devices remain just what they are, interrogation props. And a knowledgeable subject will know he has nothing to fear from them. Which defeats even the most ardent operator.
  

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