I am enjoying the parley between digit and retcopper, while once again realizing that Geroge has the only cogent message in this thread:

I will repeat the basic failings of the poly:

It does not detect anything.  It is a cool biofeedback machine that measures certain physiological changes and levels.  You could say it suggests that something -might- be up, but it proves nothing, and may only be showing stress or revulsion.  The happy endings come when the post-test interrogation geared toward the abnormal stress readings produces something.  If these perverts, and all other crooks, know the lie behind the poly, then it becomes worthless...

It is sad whenever a criminal uses info from this site to beat a poly, I submit.  However, other, bigger, and more frequent harms occur such that the lie must be exposed, as should all black lies.

Again, the only way that a poly ever works is if the subject buys into it and confesses.  If they deny everything, then you have nothing.  Incidentally, I tend to doubt some of these stories where people claim they would be violated if they failed, or are violated if they come back inconclusive a certain # of times.  I wonder if some of those persons aren't deep cover polyboys... you could contest such a violation from here to Mars and back 8)

I think we all know the lie behind all this.  I will be the first to argue disutility, also.  This polygraph lie will only provoke lies in return, which is the standard slippery slope.  I advocate, as always, that this clunker be retired... all lies are shameful...

retcopper wrote on Sep 13^th, 2006 at 5:40pm:


Duncan will get the death penalty, so he will be punished for his deeds. However, all of the problems and mistakes that occurred that allowed him to continue offending need to be examined so that they can be prevented or mitigated in future cases. As I've stated previously, lack of information sharing between jurisdictions, an overworked parole system, and lack of adequate monitoring were all culprits...

But I blame the initial reliance on the polygraph because it gave a false sense of security which predicated all of what followed...

The polygraph should be abandoned in all of its uses in law enforcement because it's pseudoscience which ruins careers and threatens national security/public safety...

Quote:


Post-conviction polygraphy is like waterboarding at Guantanamo (or any other form of government torture): it is useful, in that it can elicit confessions. 

I believe this is the spirit in which it is being used presently in the USA: its practictioners/supporters are well aware that it has no diagnostic validity in discerning truth from lies; and they don't care. 

They just want confessions. 

They also take for granted - and don't care - that innocents  are swept-up in their polygraphic fishing expeditions.

Quote:
1904,  I have been a big fan of your posts for the past month or so and have been following the action on this site for several years.

Although I normally agree with much of what you post, I must call BS on this particular post.  In spite of the generally accepted societal hysteria when discussing sex offenders (of any classification), studies have shown that recidivism rates for child molesters are typically lower than the recidivism rate of other types of criminals.

At some point in the near future, we as a society MUST learn to behave rationally and discuss the serious issue of sex offenders in a manner that will allow progress in treatment, housing, awareness, etc. WITHOUT simply condemning offenders to death.

While I agree that VIOLENT OFFENDERS and REPEAT OFFENDERS and HIGH LEVEL RISKS should be segregated from the innocent, we must also agree that treatment is an option for first-time offenders and that the chance of success is actually quite high.

In one 10 year study of Recidivism rates of sex offenders, it was shown that the recommitment for a new crime is 22%, of which 14% are NON-SEX offenses.  The TOTAL SEX-RELATED recidivism rate, including technical violations of supervision conditions was 11%.

Among sex offenders recidivism rates for rapists (with adult victims) is 17.5% while the rate of re-offense for extra-familial child molesters is 8.7%.  The same study shows that those offenders who receive treatment while incarcerated are apt to re-offend at a significantly lower rate.

Let me conclude by pointing out that I am not a child molester, I am not a rapist or a sexual deviant.  I am simply someone who sees through the hysteria.

Please don't mistake my post as acceptance of sexual offenders or an attempt to diminish the seriousness of the crimes.  Thank God you were able to cut short any attempts at molestation in your youth and I will pray for your niece's daughter.

As the father of two children aged 9 (boy) and 6 (girl) I am always vigilant when they are around other adults and adolescents.  God help the person I ever suspect of touching either of my children.

My involvement in this thread is only to inject a bit of reality.  I don't believe that everyone that fails the poly is guilty, just as I don't believe that everyone who passes is innocent.  I don't believe that every person accused of molestation is guilty, just as I don't believe that everyone who professes innocence is innocent.  There are some truly disturbed individuals walking the streets and it is our responsibility to protect our children from them.

By the same token, there are also mixed up people who make mistakes.  Maybe the judgement is bad, or their reasoning centers of the brain don't function properly.  Maybe they are dealing with stresses that affect their reasoning, or they don't have the ability to understand the consequences of their actions.  It also could be that they were molested as young children and are repeating their experience.

We have to come to a point as a society where the topic of sexual molestation can be approached rationally.  Making blanket statements that all sex offenders should be killed or castrated or tortured will only contribute to the hysteria and serve to force offenders even further into their morass.  How can a beginning offender seek the help needed to control their urges if they are certain to face an angry lynch mob?

It is commonly accepted in scientific circles that a majority of victims of abuse go on to become abusers later in life.  If our collective stance is that all molesters should be killed, we might as well kill the victims as well in order to prevent them from offending as they mature.  In this way we can stop the cycle of victimization/abuse.  <--- facetious remark

Agreed...we may never know if my position is correct.  The human psyche can be a dark and disturbing place.  I find it interesting that our most violent and twisted criminals, even mass murderers have the moral high ground on those that they perceive to be child molesters.

It is such a touchy subject...as stated above I would lose all rationale if I found that someone was harming my children.

digithead

How would you catch them?

The failed polygraph after the murders got Duncan to admit that he smoked pot which would've been detected with a UA. Seems that he was able to manipulate the polygrapher in his favor away from his real crimes. Hence, the polygrapher failed to detect Duncan's more serious crimes which allowed him to commit further murders. Face it, Duncan was a false negative no matter how you spin it. He suckered the system and tricked the polygrapher into thinking he had done nothing more serious than smoke pot which created a false sense of security.

As for something more substantial, how about a quote from the monster himself which he said in his closing arguments earlier this week, "You people really don't have any clue yet of the true heinousness of what I've done."  

By the way, Duncan created an encrypted diary that contains all of his criminal acts. The FBI hasn't cracked it yet but it's just a matter of time before all of his crimes come to light. Do you really want to bet that Duncan didn't do other things while on parole that the polygraph/polygrapher also missed?

Lastly, it's a false dichotomy to suggest that I have to come up with something "better" than the polygraph. To me, expunging this pseudoscience from law enforcement is better as we will no longer be relying on wishful thinking and make-believe security.

The polygraph is great example of routine activities theory: suitable targets, motivated offenders, and lack of capable guardians. With countermeasures employed by motivated offenders to easily manipulate the test (i.e.., lack of capable guardian), it's no wonder people like Duncan can rape and murder until they get caught the old-fashioned way.