Normal Topic Look 'em in the eye (Read 6301 times)
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Look 'em in the eye
Sep 5th, 2006 at 8:01pm
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Just wanted to offer some advice regarding the polygraph.  As stated in George's book, much of the polygraph is subjective (sometimes, almost completely subjective in the case of a R/I test).  Examiners can gather a lot about applicants in the pre-test phase when they go over the questionairre booklet with them.

My pre-test question booklet presented every type of scenario you can imagine (e.g. have you ever stolen from an employer, have you ever done drugs, have you ever driven after consuming alcohol, etc. etc.).  I could truthfully answer "no" to each of these questions.  However, the polygrapher grilled me on each one of these.  He would be like, "You're telling me that you have NEVER driven a car after consuming just one alcoholic beverage?  You're telling me that you have NEVER stolen ANYTHING from an employer."  

Well, one thing I noticed is that he was very closely studying my facial expressions for each question.  He would look me DIRECTLY in the eye and not look away for a good five seconds after he had already asked the question.  Obviously, he was using the oldest "lie detection" trick in the book:  watching to see if I looked left or right after I answered "no."  I made sure to look him directly in the eye each time he asked a question.  I also answered very confidently, sitting back in my chair like I owned the place (but still with an air of professionalism  Wink )

So, just as a reminder, be cognizant of your reactions during the pre-test phase.  Always present an image of confidence.  Contrary to what polyboy would have you believe, the pre-test questioning is in fact where the majority of the pass/fail opinion is developed.  Much more so than you would think.  A very close friend of mine took the poly for a state Highway Patrol agency.  After a detailed question and answer session with the polygrapher during the pre-test phase, he told me that polyboy didn't even inflate the cuff during the "testing."  Polyboy just went through the motions of hooking up all the equipment and staring at his computer screen to present the impression that he was following through with the "test."  My buddy's fate had in fact already been sealed during the pre-test questioning (he passed, and is now a trooper.)    Good luck to all of you.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2006 at 1:38am by alterego1 »  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #1 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 5:13pm
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Good examiners do not rely on body language or eye contact to determine the results of the examination.  Only the charts. 
Good advice for interviews and interrogations.
  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 8:44pm
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LieNot,

Then when you leave the room to examine the charts, you sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails, chart reading, oh thats right its redundant. Like we give any credit to good examiner chart readings. But since anyone of consequence has used mental countermeasures on your test, which you can't detect, then we will see how good you are. Thanks for the comedy.

Regards ...
  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 4:25am
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sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails


Statements like yours exemplify why examiners do not post on this board often.  I have enjoyed reading the content of some statements and responding on six or seven occasions.  I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons
  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 5:20am
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Lienot

I happen to know EosJupitor's formal education and I seriously doubt that you can touch him.

Statements like yours "I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons" exemplify why polygraphers do not post here. They have a hard time coming up with original thoughts or a rational defense of their "Profession". That statement has been around for many years.
There have been VERY few polygraphers intellectually capable to debate the merits (or lack thereof!) of the polygraph and ultimately they resort to personal attacks.
  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #5 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 8:23am
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Quote:
sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails


Statements like yours exemplify why examiners do not post on this board often.  I have enjoyed reading the content of some statements and responding on six or seven occasions.  I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons


TwoBlock - Thanks for the words of support !!!

-----

LieNot,

Being highly underwhelmed and self important seems to be a common thread with most polygraphers. I find this in your case too. As far as a mental battle of wits, I save that for those deemed worthy. Usually scientists and engineers, which I doubt you even qualify. As a practitioner of voodoo and BS, I stand by the reading entrails statement. Or would you feel better with the finger in the glass of water trick, ripples means he is lying. If your going to come here as a polygrapher, then fully realize that this is a hostile place for you. Would you expect any less. Anything short of complete abolishment of the polygraph is the only way, the likes of me will go away. And since I have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions. I find your words of wit to be non sequitor.

Regards .....
  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #6 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 9:15pm
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EosJupiter wrote on Sep 7th, 2006 at 8:23am:
And since I have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions. I find your words of wit to be non sequitor.

Regards .....



EosJupiter.....did you find my comments and advice to be on point?  Have you noticed during any of your polygraph tests that the examiner closely studies your facial expressions and reactions, and stares you directly in the eyes?  Just curious.
  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #7 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 11:16pm
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alterego1,

I found your comments to be 100% dead on. They look for the body language, head, and eye movements to see if they get the responses before the test even starts. Anyone with knowlege of interrogation techniques knows exactly what the polygrapher is looking for. And with that knowlege you give them nothing. It takes practice, but is easily mastered, for those with the intellect and desire.  Much success to you.

Regards ....
  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:22am
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Alterego is correct, body language and eye contact does play a major role in how the paleographer perceives you. In my case, he wasn’t in front of me while taking the actual test. He was to the right of me, more concentrated on the instrument; making me use the tongue biting technique on the opposite side of which he was facing me. Times where I controlled  normal body posture and facial  expressions was when he interrogated me in the beginning with questions to lead up to “CONTROL questions” such as have you lied to a friend… etc. Other than that , as said in TlBD I maintained a worry free attitude in the waiting room; not knowing if there was any hidden cameras, cause he had me wait there for about ten minutes leaving me with some reading material and his door was shut. The only thing I noticed was there was a camera in  the room while the actual test was being performed, so I had to not make nothing to obvious. The camera was hard to distinguish at first for where it had a stand and a long neck; other than that you can tell it was a camera.
  

He who control's the future, control's the past He who control's the past, control's the future.
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:25am
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POLYGRAPHY IS PALEOGRAPHY It' iS NOW ANCIENT! We already BEAT THE OLD PSEUDO SCIENCE
  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #10 - Sep 9th, 2006 at 7:22am
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This question is to Eos in specific, but anyone else is more than welcome to chime in as well.  Eos, you posted you have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions.  Am I correct in understanding you have comitted some action which would have at very least disqualified you from some employment?  If so, please state what this activity was so all of us who read this forum can understand the magnitude of the issue and how worthless the polygraph is. 

VR,

Uiop
  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #11 - Sep 9th, 2006 at 8:08pm
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uiop wrote on Sep 9th, 2006 at 7:22am:
This question is to Eos in specific, but anyone else is more than welcome to chime in as well.  Eos, you posted you have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions.  Am I correct in understanding you have comitted some action which would have at very least disqualified you from some employment?  If so, please state what this activity was so all of us who read this forum can understand the magnitude of the issue and how worthless the polygraph is.  

VR,

Uiop


Uiop,

First and foremost there was never anything in my background to disqualify me for employment. I just have a real problem with being interrogated by a cretin with a bogus device.  I also have authority issues, unless I am the authority.  Countermeasures work, and I will continue to use them, but the details I keep to myself, as I don't know you or wish to share my secrets.

Regards ....

  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 5:10am
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"I don't know you or wish to share my secrets"

If there were no disqualifications in your "secrets" there would be no reason for countermeasures. 

"I also have authority issues, unless I am the authority"

I am sure this is a true statement.  Regarding Polygraph, you are not an authority, you are an ardent student that has not completed your studies, yet you are an authority by your own statements. 

This has all the markings of a thought process that is different than the "norm"

  
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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:00am
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Quote:
 

This has all the markings of a thought process that is different than the "norm"




LieNot,

I will take this as a compliment, as I definately think outside the box on all things. A good chess player never reveals his playing secrets.  Either way your polygraph is nothing more than a cheap parlor trick, or prove me wrong and take Drew Richardsons challege and prove you can detect countermeasures.  I state that your comments and thought processes are the norm, and subject to the weaknesses of it. Combat teaches you many things, one is never take what you see at face value, or believe what you hear. And always come more heavily armed then your opponent.  Funny I bet your pre-polygraph interview is full of such wonderful tales of fancy. You see I know your game plans and how to negate them, on my side you haven't  a clue of what I am capable of or what I am thinking. Besides you can never prove that your not the only trained interrogator in the room.  Intellect is a weapon when used properly. Those that know me on this board, know this to be true.
I have been the victim of a false-positive, and vowed never again. So much for my secrets ... once burned twice shy, with a battle plan, and the audacity to carry it out. How I do that, again is my knowlege.

But I for one will never stop you from putting your opinions out. You are more than welcome on this board. I bear no ill will towards dissenting opinions. Keep them up, as it adds to the flavor and fun of this venue.

Regards ...
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:11pm by EosJupiter »  

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Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 12:34am
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Very kind of you.  I am sorry you were a false positive and look forward to discussions in the future.  I also have a very good education with graduate degree.
  
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