Normal Topic Look 'em in the eye (Read 7521 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box alterego1
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 50
Joined: Jun 30th, 2006
Look 'em in the eye
Sep 5th, 2006 at 8:01pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Just wanted to offer some advice regarding the polygraph.  As stated in George's book, much of the polygraph is subjective (sometimes, almost completely subjective in the case of a R/I test).  Examiners can gather a lot about applicants in the pre-test phase when they go over the questionairre booklet with them.

My pre-test question booklet presented every type of scenario you can imagine (e.g. have you ever stolen from an employer, have you ever done drugs, have you ever driven after consuming alcohol, etc. etc.).  I could truthfully answer "no" to each of these questions.  However, the polygrapher grilled me on each one of these.  He would be like, "You're telling me that you have NEVER driven a car after consuming just one alcoholic beverage?  You're telling me that you have NEVER stolen ANYTHING from an employer."  

Well, one thing I noticed is that he was very closely studying my facial expressions for each question.  He would look me DIRECTLY in the eye and not look away for a good five seconds after he had already asked the question.  Obviously, he was using the oldest "lie detection" trick in the book:  watching to see if I looked left or right after I answered "no."  I made sure to look him directly in the eye each time he asked a question.  I also answered very confidently, sitting back in my chair like I owned the place (but still with an air of professionalism  Wink )

So, just as a reminder, be cognizant of your reactions during the pre-test phase.  Always present an image of confidence.  Contrary to what polyboy would have you believe, the pre-test questioning is in fact where the majority of the pass/fail opinion is developed.  Much more so than you would think.  A very close friend of mine took the poly for a state Highway Patrol agency.  After a detailed question and answer session with the polygrapher during the pre-test phase, he told me that polyboy didn't even inflate the cuff during the "testing."  Polyboy just went through the motions of hooking up all the equipment and staring at his computer screen to present the impression that he was following through with the "test."  My buddy's fate had in fact already been sealed during the pre-test questioning (he passed, and is now a trooper.)    Good luck to all of you.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2006 at 1:38am by alterego1 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Lienot
Ex Member


Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #1 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 5:13pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Good examiners do not rely on body language or eye contact to determine the results of the examination.  Only the charts.   
Good advice for interviews and interrogations.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EosJupiter
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline


But of Course ...

Posts: 483
Location: Always Out There ......
Joined: Feb 28th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2006 at 8:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
LieNot,

Then when you leave the room to examine the charts, you sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails, chart reading, oh thats right its redundant. Like we give any credit to good examiner chart readings. But since anyone of consequence has used mental countermeasures on your test, which you can't detect, then we will see how good you are. Thanks for the comedy.

Regards ...
  

Theory into Reality !!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Lienot
Ex Member


Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 4:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails


Statements like yours exemplify why examiners do not post on this board often.  I have enjoyed reading the content of some statements and responding on six or seven occasions.  I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Twoblock
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 732
Location: AR.
Joined: Oct 15th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 5:20am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Lienot

I happen to know EosJupitor's formal education and I seriously doubt that you can touch him.

Statements like yours "I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons" exemplify why polygraphers do not post here. They have a hard time coming up with original thoughts or a rational defense of their "Profession". That statement has been around for many years. 
There have been VERY few polygraphers intellectually capable to debate the merits (or lack thereof!) of the polygraph and ultimately they resort to personal attacks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EosJupiter
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline


But of Course ...

Posts: 483
Location: Always Out There ......
Joined: Feb 28th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #5 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 8:23am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
sacrifice a goat and read the entrails to see if you have found deception. Entrails


Statements like yours exemplify why examiners do not post on this board often.  I have enjoyed reading the content of some statements and responding on six or seven occasions.  I chose not to have intellectual battles with unarmed persons


TwoBlock - Thanks for the words of support !!! 

-----

LieNot, 

Being highly underwhelmed and self important seems to be a common thread with most polygraphers. I find this in your case too. As far as a mental battle of wits, I save that for those deemed worthy. Usually scientists and engineers, which I doubt you even qualify. As a practitioner of voodoo and BS, I stand by the reading entrails statement. Or would you feel better with the finger in the glass of water trick, ripples means he is lying. If your going to come here as a polygrapher, then fully realize that this is a hostile place for you. Would you expect any less. Anything short of complete abolishment of the polygraph is the only way, the likes of me will go away. And since I have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions. I find your words of wit to be non sequitor.

Regards ..... 
  

Theory into Reality !!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box alterego1
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 50
Joined: Jun 30th, 2006
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #6 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 9:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
EosJupiter wrote on Sep 7th, 2006 at 8:23am:


And since I have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions. I find your words of wit to be non sequitor.

Regards ..... 



EosJupiter.....did you find my comments and advice to be on point?  Have you noticed during any of your polygraph tests that the examiner closely studies your facial expressions and reactions, and stares you directly in the eyes?  Just curious.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EosJupiter
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline


But of Course ...

Posts: 483
Location: Always Out There ......
Joined: Feb 28th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #7 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 11:16pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
alterego1,

I found your comments to be 100% dead on. They look for the body language, head, and eye movements to see if they get the responses before the test even starts. Anyone with knowlege of interrogation techniques knows exactly what the polygrapher is looking for. And with that knowlege you give them nothing. It takes practice, but is easily mastered, for those with the intellect and desire.  Much success to you.

Regards ....
  

Theory into Reality !!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Thomas_Delacy
User
**
Offline



Posts: 31
Joined: Jun 15th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:22am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Alterego is correct, body language and eye contact does play a major role in how the paleographer perceives you. In my case, he wasn’t in front of me while taking the actual test. He was to the right of me, more concentrated on the instrument; making me use the tongue biting technique on the opposite side of which he was facing me. Times where I controlled  normal body posture and facial  expressions was when he interrogated me in the beginning with questions to lead up to “CONTROL questions” such as have you lied to a friend… etc. Other than that , as said in TlBD I maintained a worry free attitude in the waiting room; not knowing if there was any hidden cameras, cause he had me wait there for about ten minutes leaving me with some reading material and his door was shut. The only thing I noticed was there was a camera in  the room while the actual test was being performed, so I had to not make nothing to obvious. The camera was hard to distinguish at first for where it had a stand and a long neck; other than that you can tell it was a camera.
  

He who control's the future, control's the past He who control's the past, control's the future.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Thomas_Delacy
User
**
Offline



Posts: 31
Joined: Jun 15th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
POLYGRAPHY IS PALEOGRAPHY It' iS NOW ANCIENT! We already BEAT THE OLD PSEUDO SCIENCE
  

He who control's the future, control's the past He who control's the past, control's the future.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box uiop
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 19
Joined: Aug 11th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #10 - Sep 9th, 2006 at 7:22am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
This question is to Eos in specific, but anyone else is more than welcome to chime in as well.  Eos, you posted you have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions.  Am I correct in understanding you have comitted some action which would have at very least disqualified you from some employment?  If so, please state what this activity was so all of us who read this forum can understand the magnitude of the issue and how worthless the polygraph is.   

VR,

Uiop
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EosJupiter
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline


But of Course ...

Posts: 483
Location: Always Out There ......
Joined: Feb 28th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #11 - Sep 9th, 2006 at 8:08pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
uiop wrote on Sep 9th, 2006 at 7:22am:
This question is to Eos in specific, but anyone else is more than welcome to chime in as well.  Eos, you posted you have beaten the polygraph on multiple occasions.  Am I correct in understanding you have comitted some action which would have at very least disqualified you from some employment?  If so, please state what this activity was so all of us who read this forum can understand the magnitude of the issue and how worthless the polygraph is.  

VR,

Uiop


Uiop,

First and foremost there was never anything in my background to disqualify me for employment. I just have a real problem with being interrogated by a cretin with a bogus device.  I also have authority issues, unless I am the authority.  Countermeasures work, and I will continue to use them, but the details I keep to myself, as I don't know you or wish to share my secrets. 

Regards .... 

  

Theory into Reality !!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Lienot
Ex Member


Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 5:10am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
"I don't know you or wish to share my secrets"

If there were no disqualifications in your "secrets" there would be no reason for countermeasures.   

"I also have authority issues, unless I am the authority"

I am sure this is a true statement.  Regarding Polygraph, you are not an authority, you are an ardent student that has not completed your studies, yet you are an authority by your own statements.   

This has all the markings of a thought process that is different than the "norm"

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box EosJupiter
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline


But of Course ...

Posts: 483
Location: Always Out There ......
Joined: Feb 28th, 2005
Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:00am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
 

This has all the markings of a thought process that is different than the "norm"




LieNot, 

I will take this as a compliment, as I definately think outside the box on all things. A good chess player never reveals his playing secrets.  Either way your polygraph is nothing more than a cheap parlor trick, or prove me wrong and take Drew Richardsons challege and prove you can detect countermeasures.  I state that your comments and thought processes are the norm, and subject to the weaknesses of it. Combat teaches you many things, one is never take what you see at face value, or believe what you hear. And always come more heavily armed then your opponent.  Funny I bet your pre-polygraph interview is full of such wonderful tales of fancy. You see I know your game plans and how to negate them, on my side you haven't  a clue of what I am capable of or what I am thinking. Besides you can never prove that your not the only trained interrogator in the room.  Intellect is a weapon when used properly. Those that know me on this board, know this to be true.
I have been the victim of a false-positive, and vowed never again. So much for my secrets ... once burned twice shy, with a battle plan, and the audacity to carry it out. How I do that, again is my knowlege. 

But I for one will never stop you from putting your opinions out. You are more than welcome on this board. I bear no ill will towards dissenting opinions. Keep them up, as it adds to the flavor and fun of this venue.

Regards ...
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:11pm by EosJupiter »  

Theory into Reality !!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Lienot
Ex Member


Re: Look 'em in the eye
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 12:34am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Very kind of you.  I am sorry you were a false positive and look forward to discussions in the future.  I also have a very good education with graduate degree.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Look 'em in the eye

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X