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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › The Lie Behind the Lie Detector › logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction-

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logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- (Read 11438 times)

antrella User Offline Posts: 40 Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2006	logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Mar 7^th, 2006 at 10:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Breathing manuevers aside, for the most part, the only concern an examinee has is the involuntary changes in electrodermal response. I understand the methodology of the tongue-biting CM - namely that you want to cause a reaction during the controls that is greater than the reaction during the relevants - but what I'm curious about is the physiological connection b/w tongue-biting and heightened electrodermal reactivity. The connection is self-evident when considering mental CMs (i.e., math equations=sweaty palms) - but tongue biting seems to me as inexplicable as the old 'tack in the shoe' trick. Would someone care to shed light on how it works? Perhaps with a clear understanding of the "how," one can develop more sophisticated, perhaps more potent CMs.


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Joker New User Offline Posts: 4 Joined: Mar 7^th, 2006	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #1 - Mar 7^th, 2006 at 10:18pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Perhaps I could just slide my tongue between my teeth and just worry about being caught?


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antrella User Offline Posts: 40 Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2006	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #2 - Mar 8^th, 2006 at 6:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	antrella wrote on Mar 7^th, 2006 at 10:11pm: Breathing manuevers aside, for the most part, the only concern an examinee has is the involuntary changes in electrodermal response. I understand the methodology of the tongue-biting CM - namely that you want to cause a reaction during the controls that is greater than the reaction during the relevants - but what I'm curious about is the physiological connection b/w tongue-biting and heightened electrodermal reactivity. The connection is self-evident when considering mental CMs (i.e., math equations=sweaty palms) - but tongue biting seems to me as inexplicable as the old 'tack in the shoe' trick. Would someone care to shed light on how it works? Perhaps with a clear understanding of the "how," one can develop more sophisticated, perhaps more potent CMs. I'm surprised that no one has stepped up to explain the physiological basis for tongue biting as a CM. Relying on it blindly is just as bad as relying on the poly blindly. I'm not content with the knowledge that "it works," and would definitely like to know why it works, and which physiological mechanisms are affected.


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #3 - Mar 8^th, 2006 at 9:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	antrella I'm not a polygraph expert but, bite your tongue hard enough to cause pain. Pain causes a rise in BP and heart rate which in turn causes an increase in sweating. To prove this to yourself, buy a digital BP machine with pulse indicator. You can test your anal squeeze and how well you can controll you thought processes. With this machine, you have to hold your thought process or squeeze until the pressure is released not just the 5 to 8 seconds required for the poly. I have no stock in the company/companies that make the devise.


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antrella User Offline Posts: 40 Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2006	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #4 - Mar 8^th, 2006 at 9:58pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Twoblock wrote on Mar 8^th, 2006 at 9:08pm: antrella I'm not a polygraph expert but, bite your tongue hard enough to cause pain. Pain causes a rise in BP and heart rate which in turn causes an increase in sweating. To prove this to yourself, buy a digital BP machine with pulse indicator. You can test your anal squeeze and how well you can controll you thought processes. With this machine, you have to hold your thought process or squeeze until the pressure is released not just the 5 to 8 seconds required for the poly. I have no stock in the company/companies that make the devise. Twoblock - I assumed it was something along these lines. As for a digital BP machine, do you know of one that provides a realtime/streaming heartbeat/BP? Or do they all simply deflate and require you to stop, restart, stop, restart, etc. Thanks-


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #5 - Mar 8^th, 2006 at 10:33pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	antrella Mine is a restart. I don't know if any other type exists. I didn't notice any other on the shelf.


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1904 Ex Member	Re: logic of tongue-biting/pain infliction- Reply #6 - Jul 12^th, 2007 at 2:43pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	antrella wrote on Mar 7^th, 2006 at 10:11pm: Breathing manuevers aside, for the most part, the only concern an examinee has is the involuntary changes in electrodermal response. I understand the methodology of the tongue-biting CM - namely that you want to cause a reaction during the controls that is greater than the reaction during the relevants - but what I'm curious about is the physiological connection b/w tongue-biting and heightened electrodermal reactivity. The connection is self-evident when considering mental CMs (i.e., math equations=sweaty palms) - but tongue biting seems to me as inexplicable as the old 'tack in the shoe' trick. Would someone care to shed light on how it works? Perhaps with a clear understanding of the "how," one can develop more sophisticated, perhaps more potent CMs. In A 1993 article on CM's, Honts stated that tongue biting reduces the "efficacy" of polygraph data by "75% (from 98%) down to 24%". - (Read it in an APA journal. )


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