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Nonombre, Darkcobra2005, et. al.,

I'm not really sure what to make of this post and the person who posted it...there exist a variety of possibilities and motivations.  But for the moment and just for conversation's sake, let's take it at face value.  Does it lead you to wonder if a sixteen year old kid is laughing at you?    Will such embarrassment finally lead to the end of such nonsense?

Quote:



Dr. Richardson,

I am willing to consider the possibility this is an actual post from a 16 year old who seems to have successfully employed countermeasures and defeated a polygraph examination.

Troubling to be sure.

Now, are you willing to consider the possibility that in the last month I have caught six people who read the same information as this kid did, but obviously did not employ the countermeasures with the same level of success, because each of them were caught and subsequently confessed to exactly what they had tried to do?

All but one of them was a job applicant.

All were immediately disqualified.

So in the end, this website seems to helped a 16 year old doper beat a polygraph exam and caused five otherwise outstanding police applicants their life's dream.

Have you considered that possibility?

Regards,

Nonombre

Nonombre,

I am completely convinced that you and your colleagues are wildly guessing regarding properly administered countermeasures.  With such in mind, I find it quite conceivable that both the barely initiated and largely untrained (e.g., our sixteen year old self-alleged drug user) can be successful in his attempts and that you and others can, at the same time through the badgering of and wrongful accusation involving large numbers of innocent and completely flabbergasted examinees,  find  even less bright examinees who will admit to countermeasure use.  Absent such admissions, I maintain that you and your colleagues are completely lost and your counter-countermeasure efforts are merely a bungle in the jungle.  I will only be convinced otherwise when the challenge has been successfully answered.

well I am the original poster, and everything I said is absolutley true. I have no reason to lie about it. To be honest, the biggest reason why I passed is because I didn't really care if I failed, so I wasn't too nervous. 

As far as the counting back from 7's, I did that on and off throughout the test, and I could tell it was working. I could feel that my body was giving absolutley no signs at all. And I was right about that, because he said there were zero signs of deception. 

I might also add that I only got an hour of sleep the night before, I don't know if that had any influence on the results.

It's not surprising to me that a 16 year old can defeat the test no problem while adults seem to have a hard time with it, because the adult is obviously much more fearful of failing the test, because it could mean their career. For me, it's really not all that bad if I fail, so its easy to stay relaxed. I think that most poeple know when their body is giving off signs of deception, they just have to figure out whatever method works best for them to reduce or eliminate those signs.

And not that it matters, but Im not a regular drug user, I just have a history involving drugs and alcohol that my parents don't know about.

DR. Richardson:

Maybe the question should be.  Do you feel better? I'm sure his parents would like to know. Now he has their complete trust.

innocence_faded wrote on Sep 7^th, 2005 at 7:18am:



Innocence Faded:

You didn't care if you failed the test because you had nothing to fear like losing a job? I would think that parents who would go to the trouble of scheduling a polygraph for their sixteen year old and drive an hour away for it to be administered might be expected to come down pretty hard on you had you failed your test. I can't believe that you weren't a bit nervous. Wasn't your freedom at stake? Weren't you afraid of being grounded? Parents can be really strict when it comes to drugs and alcohol. If it wouldn't have been that bad if you had failed, why not just come clean with the folks? 

I have a question about your 35 second break between sets of questions during your test--how did you know the amount of time that had elapsed? Did your examiner time exactly 35 seconds between sets and tell you he was doing that? 

Also, even though your technique seems to have worked like a charm,  wouldn't it have been better to concentrate on augmenting your responses to the control questions, instead of focusing so much on trying to change your reactions to the relevants? I've never heard advice such as yours. If you spent hours reading this site, what made you decide to come up with your own technique? 

You sound like one gutsy kid, I'm surprised you didn't have the nerve to stand up to your parents and tell them the truth about your experience with alcohol and drugs. 

And speaking of your parents, didn't they know that you only got one hour of sleep the night before the test? That would seem like a dead give away that you had something to hide from them. For someone who wasn't worried about the test, that's not a lot of sleep. 

Innocence faded--seems a very interesting name choice for a sixteen year old kid. You seem so bright and your language skills mature--I'm surprised that someone as wise as you would have given into peer pressure regarding drug and alcohol use. You seem way too smart for that.

Interesting responses. Polyfool you had a few questions regarding the test, possibly intended to prove me wrong, but in any case I will answer them. 

As far as parents coming down hard on me, you're absolutely right. My parents are the type that set big consequences, so you would think that I would be fearful. I was slightly nervous, because I could be facing a week of grounding or lose my car for awhile, but that's no big deal at all compared to your life's career being at stake. And another reason why I was not nervous is because I prepared well for the test, so I was confident that I could pass. 

I have a question about your 35 second break between sets of questions during your test--how did you know the amount of time that had elapsed? Did your examiner time exactly 35 seconds between sets and tell you he was doing that?   

After each set, he said "you are now finished this phase of the set, please refrain from moving for the next 35 seconds." After the 35 seconds we would move on to the next set of questions. 


Also, even though your technique seems to have worked like a charm,   wouldn't it have been better to concentrate on augmenting your responses to the control questions, instead of focusing so much on trying to change your reactions to the relevants? I've never heard advice such as yours. If you spent hours reading this site, what made you decide to come up with your own technique? 

Well if you read my original post, you will see that I did, infact, augment my responses to the control questions. And trying to calm my reactions to the relevant questions just seems like common sense, right? So I wouldn't really consider that my own technique. The whole thing about counting backwards by seven's I read in TLBTLD on page 148. Whats funny about it though is he recommends the counting to augment the response to control questions, but I actually found that it helped more to calm my reactions. So I used it for the opposite effect, but it still worked very effectively.


You sound like one gutsy kid, I'm surprised you didn't have the nerve to stand up to your parents and tell them the truth about your experience with alcohol and drugs. 

If I did that, then I would never be able to say that I beat the polygraph. I liked the challange.

And speaking of your parents, didn't they know that you only got one hour of sleep the night before the test? That would seem like a dead give away that you had something to hide from them. For someone who wasn't worried about the test, that's not a lot of sleep. 

No, they did not know that I stayed up the night before. I spent the night reviewing TLBTLD, and also defrosting my freezer. (Not that that really matters)


Innocence faded--seems a very interesting name choice for a sixteen year old kid. You seem so bright and your language skills mature--I'm surprised that someone as wise as you would have given into peer pressure regarding drug and alcohol use. You seem way too smart for that.

Well, Innocence Faded is actually the name of a favorite Dream Theater song of mine. I don't let peer pressure affect me, I make choices on my own. I made the choice to use drugs and alcohol, and I made the choice to stop. Sure, I enjoy a few beers every now and then, but I keep it under control. And I haven't touched marijuana in months. 

It kind of seems like parents who would go to all that trouble and expense for a poly, would go to that trouble and expense for a pee test or hair sample or a personal possession search.

Well my parents are quite dumb. They have never given me a drug test in my life. They did, however, purchase a breathalyzer right before the polygraph. 

What exactly is it you won?  The right to screw up your life? 

My parents feel like they can trust me, and that makes them happy. The months before the polygraph, my relationship with my parents was crap. We would rarely talk about anything, and when we did talk it was just an argument. They would always accuse me of stuff even when they had no evidence. It was just a bad situation. Now, my relationship with my parents has never been better. They trust me, and they actually hold conversations with me, instead of making accusations. I think the results of the polygraph have helped me and my family quite a bit, and now I have a great story to tell people.

darkcobra2005 wrote on Sep 7^th, 2005 at 11:28pm:


Well Cobra,
It works like this, with intellect comes audacity, Plain and simple. If you got some smart folks who copped to using countermeasures, then what happens to them is their problem. They didn't have the courage or tenacity to keep with the plan. After SERE's training and counter-interrogation courses. I know who is in charge in the polygraph chair. I knew long ago that the polygraph is nothing more than a pressure tool. The game is and always will be how the polygrapher preps the subject. If he can get the subject to buy into the machine being infalliable then it will be. Knowlege is power, and most polygraphers are praying they get someone who is naive and believe that this interrogation is going to be fair for all involved. Which it is not, as any interrogator relies on gile, and lies to get the information they want. 
The goal is not to allow that to happen. ANd every poly I have taken ... well we know who won the game  

EJ ..... Facts, Their is no substitute !!!