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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Horror Story (Read 39927 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Johnn
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #15 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 2:35am
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polyfool wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 2:28am:



Johnn:

At this point, there is really no way to know. After your examiner completes his report, it and your charts have to be reviewed by the poly dept. and headquarters before a final decision is rendered. Since you just took it last week, it's very likely that a final decision hasn't been made yet. If the agency fails you, your application will become inactive in the system and you will be sent a letter stating that your conditional job offer is being rescinded because the results of your polygraph were "not within acceptable parameters." I especially love the part about "we know this decision will be disappointing to you, but trust that you understand the FBI's position in this matter." Based on my experience, it takes about three weeks to receive the letter. You could wait a few more days and phone your applicant coordinator. He/she should be able to access this information in a database and tell you if you were deemed DI (deception indicated) as well as the date your application became inactive, if that's the case.     

I understand your point about it not being about the job. It wasn't for me, either. Ironically, I had been so upfront and honest with the agency, but was forced to be less than truthful during my appeal interview when I had to  pretend that I was still interested in the job in order to get a retest. I had simply wanted to pass and clear my name, so that I would'nt be blacklisted from other employment requiring security clearances. That's the worst part--that the FBI uses a worthless, joke of a screening procedure that requires one to lie to pass to not only deny employment, but to tarnish the image of the person to which it extended the job offer. Unbelievable, isn't it?

I think you're right about the agency not being what it used to be. Someone I know recently left the FBI after a lengthy career and says the agency has really gone downhill in the past five years. 


Will they start a background investigation, nonetheless?  The two individuals who gave me the security interview told me that my background will start as soon as the poly is over.  I'd be very upset if they start the background all the while taking their sweet time deciding if I was being deceptive or not.

I can't believe how my mind keeps playing that moment over and over again.  I'm filled with what ifs, if only, and what could've.  The entire experience is very traumatizing - at least for me.
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #16 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 3:47am
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Johnn wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 2:35am:


Will they start a background investigation, nonetheless?  The two individuals who gave me the security interview told me that my background will start as soon as the poly is over.  I'd be very upset if they start the background all the while taking their sweet time deciding if I was being deceptive or not.

I can't believe how my mind keeps playing that moment over and over again.  I'm filled with what ifs, if only, and what could've.  The entire experience is very traumatizing - at least for me.


Johnn:

The FBI won't start your background unless you pass the poly. That's the whole purpose of it--so the agency doesn't waste time and money on someone whom it deems shows problems in areas, such as drugs. It's really pathetic, I know. Even if the agency begins the background, it will cease if you are deemed deceptive. For your sake, I hope this doesn't happen--it would just mean more explaining to your employer, neighbors, etc. of why you won't be working for the FBI.

Johnn, I can assure you-- replaying it in your mind(mine was more than a moment--it was a lengthy interrogation,) hearing the examiner's voice, words, seeing his face-- all very normal reactions to the traumatization you have experienced. Reading your words brings back the memories of how I felt following my horrible experience. I also understand the what if's---I still wish that I could take back ever applying to the FBI, but there's no sense in torturing yourself with such thoughts.  If I'd passed my polygraph, I would still believe that it worked, oblivious to the reality of its unreliability and shortcomings. My belief about the poly before I took one was that if a suspect or "person of interest" failed one, he/she must be guilty of murder. I have a very different view about the whole thing now. Despite the not so great position I find myself in,  atleast I am no longer in the dark, unaware of what the government is doing to good, honest job candidates  by subjecting them to an unfair, unprofessional screening procedure completely lacking scientific merit. I never in a million years would have believed it unless I had experienced it for myself.
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2005 at 4:07am by polyfool »  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #17 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 5:17am
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John, Polyfool, et al.-

I empathize compeltely. I had a similar experience. Let me stew in the room for 30 minutes before returning to fish for some damning (albeit nonexistent) evidence. 

I wouldn't bother calling you applicant coordinator- suddenly they become very unavailable to talk to you. 

The letter was crushing and I have thought about it often. However, I have moved on, and you will too.

Martin
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #18 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 4:23pm
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I don't plan on contacting anyone.  I will find out if I failed by letter, then I will write a letter myself.

I'm sorry about your experience, by the way.

Martin wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 5:17am:
John, Polyfool, et al.-

I empathize compeltely. I had a similar experience. Let me stew in the room for 30 minutes before returning to fish for some damning (albeit nonexistent) evidence. 

I wouldn't bother calling you applicant coordinator- suddenly they become very unavailable to talk to you. 

The letter was crushing and I have thought about it often. However, I have moved on, and you will too.

Martin

  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #19 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 7:50pm
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Sergeant;

I don't have to post anything about polys because all good cops know that the poly is necessary and effective.
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #20 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 8:19pm
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retcopper wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 7:50pm:
Sergeant;

I don't have to post anything about polys because all good cops know that the poly is necessary and effective.


Oh, and that's why they don't use poly's for the NYPD?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #21 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 10:21pm
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retcopper wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 7:50pm:
Sergeant;

I don't have to post anything about polys because all good cops know that the poly is necessary and effective.


Pre-employment polygraph screening is hardly necessary. Police departments in states like Oregon, Michigan, Massachusetts, Minnesota, and New Jersey do fine without it, as do all the police departments in democracies of western Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.

And while polygraph screening may be "effective" for eliciting admissions from applicants who don't yet realize that it's a sham (a dwindling population), it is completely invalid as a means of determining truth versus deception. Making matters worse, it's inherently biased against the truthful, yet easily defeated by liars who understand "the lie behind the lie detector."
  

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Re: Horror Story
Reply #22 - Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:05am
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retcopper wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 7:50pm:
Sergeant;

I don't have to post anything about polys because all good cops know that the poly is necessary and effective.

I see…

I guess your definition of a “good cop” is one who knows the polygraph is necessary and effective, and who also thoughtlessly jumps into ongoing threads in which a frustrated person is expressing their pain with “get screwed” comments like this:

retcopper wrote on Aug 31st, 2005 at 7:38pm:
John:


If you are going to cry and throw up at mere words than maybe you should think about another profession.  What will you do when confronted with a dangerous situation where life and death issues are at stake?


You may not share the view of the author that the polygraph is worthless, but why would you feel the need to denigrate someone you’ve never met who is merely expressing his frustration at what he feels was an unfair and abusive polygraph exam?  Is that what you think a “good cop” does?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #23 - Sep 2nd, 2005 at 6:56pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:05am:

I see…

I guess your definition of a “good cop” is one who knows the polygraph is necessary and effective, and who also thoughtlessly jumps into ongoing threads in which a frustrated person is expressing their pain with “get screwed” comments like this:


You may not share the view of the author that the polygraph is worthless, but why would you feel the need to denigrate someone you’ve never met who is merely expressing his frustration at what he feels was an unfair and abusive polygraph exam?  Is that what you think a “good cop” does?


He's probabably an overly self-assertive,  gung ho individual who lacks compassion and who's only motive for being  a cop is to exercise some kind of "control" over people.  Very insecure, I imagine.
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #24 - Sep 3rd, 2005 at 12:17pm
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This is sort of a sidebar:  why is it that polygraphers think they are infallible?  or condescending?   the way they look at you and the way they make you feel is somewhat "guilty until proven innocent".  the rigmarol of even thinking of talking to an examiner to define your innocence is nonsensical.  In California, according to Edward Gelb, a polygraph cannot be given unless the employer suffers an economic loss. such as theft.  Otherwise no way, no polygraph.  So how does Edward Gelb make his money?  I think he defends the likes of the Ramseys, you remember, Jon Benet's parents.  Money talks and bullshit runs the marathons.  We as Americans can send a man on the moon but STILL can't find the little girls' killer(s).   Eddie just might have an answer....bu he ain't saying. Shocked
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #25 - Sep 8th, 2005 at 2:12am
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JohnN--don't rule yourself out yet.  I've taken polys for 4 intel agencies and have passed 3 of them.  The other, FBI, I'm waiting for the results.

I've never done drugs, but each polygrapher has accused me of it and hounded me.  One of them even had no problem with the drug question for me, but said I was failing the question of selling.  I guess I don't use, but I sell.  Not.

I took the FBI polygraph last week.  I'll describe it in it's own thread.
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #26 - Sep 9th, 2005 at 10:25pm
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magic-cat wrote on Sep 8th, 2005 at 2:12am:
JohnN--don't rule yourself out yet.  I've taken polys for 4 intel agencies and have passed 3 of them.  The other, FBI, I'm waiting for the results.

I've never done drugs, but each polygrapher has accused me of it and hounded me.  One of them even had no problem with the drug question for me, but said I was failing the question of selling.  I guess I don't use, but I sell.  Not.

I took the FBI polygraph last week.  I'll describe it in it's own thread.


Did the FBI accuse you of doing drugs or tell you that there is a "discrepancy" with a certain question?
  
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #27 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 10:19pm
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Wanted to tell you all that today I received my rescinded "failed parameters" letter.  I'm going to give them an "earful" via letter, so that way, they can attach it to my employee file.   Does anyone here know how I can obtain my files through the freedom act?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Horror Story
Reply #28 - Sep 13th, 2005 at 10:53pm
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Chapter 5 of TLBTLD includes a section on how to file a Privacy Act request.
  

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Re: Horror Story
Reply #29 - Sep 14th, 2005 at 3:01am
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Johnn wrote on Sep 13th, 2005 at 10:19pm:

Wanted to tell you all that today I received my rescinded "failed parameters" letter.  I'm going to give them an "earful" via letter, so that way, they can attach it to my employee file.   Does anyone here know how I can obtain my files through the freedom act?


Johnn,

Sorry to hear that you received your "not within acceptable parameters" letter as suspected. If you want to speed up your FOIPA request, you can go to the FBI's website, download the form(s) and fax them to the number located at the bottom of the page. You'll avoid the mail delay and the agency should respond via letter within a couple of weeks letting you know it recieved your request and is working on it. The only drawback is your request won't be sent certified mail. You may want to go that route if you don't receive a timely response regarding your initial request. I strongly suggest that you get your hands on your file even if you have to go to great lengths to do it because you won't really know your polygraph results until you see them for yourself. You may be very surprised as to what  you find out.
  
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