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Must Read...Failed Poly (Read 14447 times)

Sergeant1107 God Member Offline Posts: 730 Location: Connecticut, USA Joined: May 21^st, 2005 Gender:	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #15 - Jul 13^th, 2005 at 10:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	importscout wrote on Jul 13^th, 2005 at 8:05pm: The more I read the book and this message board, the more I understand that the poly tests your poly skills and nothing else, and that 'truthefulness' is a dangerous thing to put your faith in. Importscout, You make a very good point. Rather than testing for deception or honesty, the polygraph does seem to test only your skills at taking a polygraph. If you measure the validity of the polygraph by the amount of damaging admissions it solicits (which many pro-polygraph people on this board tend to do), then it would be fair to say that as one’s skill at taking a polygraph increases, the validity of the polygraph decreases. That sounds like a good reason for why so many polygraphers are so upset about this site and the information found on it.

	Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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importscout New User Offline Posts: 8 Joined: Jul 7^th, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #16 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 3:59am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thanks! I'm a little scared of my next poly because it is with my choice agency and I scored 100% on my oral review, which would place me in the top tier to get in if I can just pass the damn poly! I am not an advocate of lying outright for lying's sake, but I would like to 'fudge' some drug use numbers because I don't feel those should be held against me in the hiring process. Is controlling your breathing and keeping the sphicter muscle relaxed when asked a relevant question enough to not show a result (or a result that is significant compared to a control)? What if the question makes you nervous or bothers you, in spite of your best efforts to keep your breathing even?


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nonombre Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 334 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #17 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:38am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	importscout wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 3:59am: Thanks! I'm a little scared of my next poly because it is with my choice agency and I scored 100% on my oral review, which would place me in the top tier to get in if I can just pass the damn poly! I am not an advocate of lying outright for lying's sake, but I would like to 'fudge' some drug use numbers because I don't feel those should be held against me in the hiring process. Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out? Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!


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Jeffery Very Senior User Offline Posts: 174 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2004	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #18 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:54am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:38am: Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out? Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department! You should know that some polygraphers post here masquarading posts like this to discredit this site. Documented and proven. Not saying that was done here, but take some of these posts with a grain of salt. I don't think anybody has a RIGHT to a police job; but I think they have a RIGHT to a fair and impartial process. Polygraphics is blatantly unfair. I know you have your point system, but until that becomes reality it is moot. And once again, I subscribe to the theory that "better that one hundred guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer." (and for arguments sake, many of those 100 guilty men could certainly be excluded from employment had proper investigations been done). Your industry has caused enough suffering (in the area of screening polygraphs). I look forward to the day when dignity returns to this country.


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nonombre Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 334 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #19 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 5:13am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Jeffery wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:54am: I know you have your point system, but until that becomes reality it is moot. I know that, Jeff. All I am trying to do is present a possible answer, a "compromise" if you will. I guess none of us here have all the answers. What I do know is that federal, state, and local agencies of all kinds continue to place great value on the polygraph (whether you believe it is legitimate or not). I, for one have seen the positives that can be derived from polygraph testing. Yet, there is a very legitimate community of people who have an equally legimate beef with polygraph (mostly in screening) All I am trying to do is offer an avenue of compromise if that is at all possible. Nothing else. Nonombre


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Jeffery Very Senior User Offline Posts: 174 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2004	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #20 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 5:21am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 5:13am: I know that, Jeff. All I am trying to do is present a possible answer, a "compromise" if you will. I guess none of us here have all the answers. What I do know is that federal, state, and local agencies of all kinds continue to place great value on the polygraph (whether you believe it is legitimate or not). I, for one have seen the positives that can be derived from polygraph testing. Yet, there is a very legitimate community of people who have an equally legimate beef with polygraph (mostly in screening) All I am trying to do is offer an avenue of compromise if that is at all possible. Nothing else. Nonombre What good? Have you seen the bad it causes??? For crying out loud, this "compromise" you refer to is such that for every accurate call (i.e. guilty person busted/innocent person vindicated) there is an inaccurate call -- innocent person labeled as deceptive! This is 50/50. Let's just flip a coin! Or use CVSA???? BTW, can you explain why polygraphers look down on CVSA?


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WifeOfScott New User Offline Posts: 1 Joined: Jul 21^st, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #21 - Jul 21^st, 2005 at 8:12am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	(Yeah right. Why don't I believe you?) My husband is one of the latest victims of this polygraph nightmare scam. There goes our hopes and dreams for FBI job. Hubby says he told the truth but it doesn't matter. I wonder if it's because hubby needed the job - been on disability (for cancer battle) and then on unemployment - and the need for a good job caused him to become nervous. Plus, we had never heard of this website before. Clueless and naive. Who knew?! Hubby says the polygrapher begged him to just tell the truth so he (the polygrapher) could become his "advocate". Sheeeeesh already. Hubby told the guy, "So you want me to make up a lie so I can pass this test and you can become my advocate?" If it weren't so tragic, it would be funny. I was wondering also if sitting for that length of time - especially if you're still recovering from cancer surgery & radiation treatments - made a difference. Who knows? It's a crap shoot. One thing we learned from all of this: NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!!


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Bill Crider Very Senior User Offline Posts: 213 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2004	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #22 - Jul 21^st, 2005 at 2:23pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Which questions did he "fail"?


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livingdonor New User Offline Posts: 2 Joined: Sep 13^th, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #23 - Dec 8^th, 2005 at 5:56pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I am troubled greatly that most of the posts in here refers to applicants for CIA, police,etc. I know that there are no perfect people as I am one of them but damn; It is sad that those who will accuse others of wrongdoing should come to terms with who they are first. My life was turned upside-down when Ed Gelb (phd MY @ss) failed me on national television. When Ken Shull months later passed me it restored nothing but stopped an eminant FBI investigation. I volunteered to a poly for one reason and that was to proove I did not sell a kidney to Bob Hickey...I took the poly to settle the verbal accusations not so I could get a job or make money. To those who apply for government positions and are afraid to fail a poly i hope you never run for political office!! Ive done and said things I wish I could take back but donating a kidney is not one of them.


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gelb disliker Senior User Offline Posts: 92 Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere Joined: Jul 28^th, 2004	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #24 - Dec 8^th, 2005 at 7:16pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Another one of Eddie Gelb's victims. PHd allows him to brand you a liar and he's got the so called Doctorate to prove it. Gelb still hasn't answered any of us as to where he obtained his Phd, if in fact he truly has one.


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ContraTyrannos New User Offline Posts: 8 Joined: Dec 18^th, 2005	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #25 - Dec 18^th, 2005 at 3:55am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Smoking pot is a victimless crime. It's morally obtuse to compare it to fondling a child. But let's move past that issue for a moment. A polygraph is only a scourge to society if it lends itself to injustice. If a polygraph is a reliable tool to detect deception, then we can discuss what consistutes a reasonable question during an employment interview. However, if the polygraph is not a reliable tool, and people are unjustly labeled deceptive based on the polygraph, then it is a scourge. How could it be anything else? nonombre wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:38am: Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out? Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!


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freem40 New User Offline Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 4^th, 2006	Re: Must Read...Failed Poly Reply #26 - Feb 5^th, 2006 at 12:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Jul 14^th, 2005 at 4:38am: Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out? Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department! In the manner that the polygrapher(s) I have dealt with do, I will go ahead and assume that in this quote, the "we" you are referring to is you and the other polygraphers who apparently regularly monitor this sites activity? I know of way too many "good cops, tough cops, best back up I ever had cops" that never should have authority in their grasp let alone a gun or a beer bottle. Side question, why is it that I was cleared for jobs(which I decided not to take) in the military (I was given choices due to high scoring on ASFAB and their background check on me.) such as Security Forces and Intelligence Analyst among others and not cleared for a county corrections job because of a polygraph?.....Where would I be in more sensitive locations involving more important information and/or weapons? MILITARY. Why will the government both local state and federal not adhere to the same standards?


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