Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies! (Read 35431 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Nov 7th, 2004 at 3:24pm
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The National Institute of Truth Verification, which markets the Computerized Voice Stress Analyzer (CVSA), has admitted in a court filing that their device "is not capable of lie detection." John Tuohy reports this in an Indianapolis Star article titled, "Voice analyzers draw praise, flak." Here is the relevant excerpt:

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Police departments across Indiana and the country are spending thousands of dollars apiece on a truth verification device that some scientists say doesn't work.

The Computer Voice Stress Analyzer, designed by a former Indianapolis Police Department officer, claims to help officers assess truthfulness by measuring changes in one's voice.

Eighty-five Indiana police departments, including IPD, use the machines, which start at $10,700 each.

The designer, Charles Humble, now is chairman and CEO of the National Institute for Truth Verification, which makes the machines. In its literature, the Palm Beach, Fla., company touts it as "a very reliable investigative tool for verifying statements of witnesses, denials of suspects and for determining the validity of allegations made against police officers."

But several scientific experiments have shown the machine, which went on the market in 1988, is no more than 50 percent reliable -- in other words, a coin toss.

In addition, the manufacturer conceded in a product liability lawsuit in California that the machine can't measure whether someone is lying.

...

In San Diego, murder charges were dropped against two teenagers after it was determined their confessions were coerced after they flunked voice stress tests.

One of the boys sued the National Institute for Truth Verification, claiming the analyzer was used to get the false confession.

In a court filing, the manufacturer said: "NITV acknowledges that the CVSA is not capable of lie detection and specifically cautions its users regarding the proper use of the device."


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« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2007 at 3:21pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #1 - Dec 3rd, 2004 at 9:27am
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Note that although the National Institute of Truth Verification has admitted in court that the Computer Voice Stress Analyzer "is not capable of lie detection," it continues to represent the opposite to the public via its website, which provides illustrations that purport to show the difference between lying and truth-telling and avers that "[t]he CVSA™ gets to the truth and accurately identifies deception, or validates statements in the shortest possible time..."

http://www.cvsa1.com/product.php
  

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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #2 - Nov 6th, 2006 at 9:10pm
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so basically it is kinda like the old joke where the cops hook the guy up to a copy machine to get a confession?

Stick with your story and you will be fine?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2006 at 4:57am
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winchester wrote on Nov 6th, 2006 at 9:10pm:
so basically it is kinda like the old joke where the cops hook the guy up to a copy machine to get a confession?

Stick with your story and you will be fine?


The comparison with the urban-legendary copy machine is an apt one. However, it is one that is seemingly lost on those agencies that rely on this quack device to screen applicants. You still run a significant risk of being falsely branded a liar and wrongly disqualified from the hiring process.
  

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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #4 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 7:35pm
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Of course they would admit that, its not designed to detect lies. I am a voice stress examiner and will tell you that anyone wno says that it detects lies doesnt know what they are talking about. Voice stress is a tool and I use it frequently. I use it to help the people I test and I have used it to obtain confessions for crimes. You have to know how to use it and when to use it. It is like everything else and gets abused ALOT. VSA is only a portion of my interaction with test subjects.
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #5 - Jan 3rd, 2011 at 3:42am
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Vipreman

While checking out a mining property in Columbia. SA, I saw an old woman with a doll about 10 inches long from toe to head. Laying beside the doll were needles that ranged from about 1 inch to about 3 inches. I saw her stick a 2 inch needle in the doll's upper arm. When I got back to camp, one of the men who was hired as a tool carrier was rolling around on the ground holding his arm. You see, she had told him that he was going to be punished for eloping with her daughter. He believed in voo doo too. Isn't the CVSA operated thusly?
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #6 - May 17th, 2011 at 12:30pm
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Hi Twoblock,

If you are referring to LVA, which I suspect Vipre is using, then I must agree with you. I tested LVA products over the years and found them to have no reliability. To obtain a confession from a guilty examinee, as you well know, is not rocket science...all you need is a tool ( voodoo doll, lva, pin cushion, smoke, mirrors, laptop) that ostensibly advises the examiner there is guilt.....invest some time...and the confession will come.

A polygraph in the 'right hands' (there are many in the wrong hands....is a reliable DOD technology. The system / process is not infallible. In fact it has more inbuilt frailties than one would care to admit.

VSA ( AVSA PRO 1,8) in the 'right hands' is an equally reliable technology. In fact it is far superior to conventional vsa as it controls cadence (onset delay) automatically; rollsover question sequence ..preventing incorrect question call...just as polygraph does, and applies the scoring of experts automatically to every word captured.
There are far less opportunities for an examiner to mess up.
There is no opportunity for examinee to effect CM's

When one calls any DOD pseudoscience, then you must put them all in the same box, as none are hard, cold science.
They are ALL semi-scientific.

But they're all we have besides a magic wand and the odd voodoo doll.

Good Luck
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #7 - May 17th, 2011 at 9:32pm
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polyvsa wrote on May 17th, 2011 at 12:30pm:
VSA ( AVSA PRO 1,8) in the 'right hands' is an equally reliable technology. 

Please provide your empirical data to support this statement.
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #8 - May 18th, 2011 at 6:04pm
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polyvsa,

You sound like a salesman for the product.  Where are the supporting studies for your product.  Polygraph does have many, I would like to review the AVSA PRO 1.8 studies. 

Regards
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #9 - May 27th, 2011 at 12:49pm
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Bill,

I am co-developer of the product.

Can you mention ONE polygraph study that was not industry funded ? (mnfr-> apa -> fed govt or uni ) I dont think so according to NAS 2003.

I am not a greenhorn btw. I have been in the PDD industry for +25 yrs and hold a poly instr cert from LIC circa 1987.

AVSA is based on original vsa - Lippold tremor. Unlike lvas and other vsa's, AVSA has a neural network scoring processor trained by scoring and input of human expertise.

I am satisfied that avsa is as reliable as poly in the hands of a skilled examiner. 'Skilled' being a prerequisite.

AVSA as a product needs no study just as axciton, lic, limestone etc need no product study. The latter mnfrs rely on existing poly studies and in turn avsa relies on existing vsa studies.

I have no quarrel with tecgnologies. I have quarrel with ignorant examiners who claim to be professionals. Really, if one has not tried different tech's oneself, then one should not badmouth that which one does not know.

If you are actually interested in the reliability of AVSA I would be happy to provide you with a trial copy.

Dont be one dimensional in your approach to DOD. Use all the skills and technology available to you.

My eml is visible in my profile if you want to take up the offer.

Be Nice.
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #10 - May 27th, 2011 at 5:10pm
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I would be pleased to view your product and possibly evaluate it.  I have said nothing regarding CVSA, VSA, AVSA PRO 1.8  or associated products that is demeaning in any way.

I did ask about relevant studies.  I appear to be correct in my statement regarding your being a salesman for the product, you are in fact "Co-Developer" of this product. 

What is "LIC circa 1987"?  I'm old and not connecting with that phrase.  I also sent an email.  Your statement regarding the studies on VSA reflect you have conducted none.  The technology has been studied by many, only the manufactures have found it to be a "Valid" tool. 

I have no experience or training with your product and I have looked at the Department of Defense evaluations. 

« Last Edit: May 27th, 2011 at 5:30pm by Bill_Brown »  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #11 - May 28th, 2011 at 2:10am
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polyvsa wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 12:49pm:
I am satisfied that avsa is as reliable as poly in the hands of a skilled examiner. 'Skilled' being a prerequisite.

If the product had any real intrinsic validity, the codeveloper would not have to peddle it on websites.
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #12 - May 28th, 2011 at 3:06am
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Polyvsa,

I did some research and found studies your fellow examiners in SA published on the web site for South African Polygraph Association.  It is remarkable the studies of your SAPA report VSA has no value for detection of deception.  (I was unable to find you as a member of this association)

You are in fact not a member of the American Polygraph Association as you advertise on your web site.  Your primary work is "Short Term Insurance Consultant, Commercial & Personal"  You advertise as a Fraud Examiner in this field. 

The picture I am getting is one that is not favorable and sounds close to fraud.  Possibly you should correct the errors on your own web site.  I am sure the American Polygraph Association will be interested in your advertising membership in the APA when in fact you are not a member.  If I am in error please feel free to correct me. 
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2011 at 4:02am by Bill_Brown »  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #13 - May 29th, 2011 at 10:25am
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Bill,
I resigned from APA in 2000 when they did the vsa cleansing rituals.

I resigned from pasa shorlty thereafter. pasa management was guilty of gross unethical conduct, which I reported to the apa in much detail....apa did nothing. Therefore no reason to continue membership with either.

I had in fact been testing with vsa and polygraph since 1985.

Gordon Barland requested that I remove my reference to being apa certified. As I have an apa certificate with my  name on it, it means that I was certified. Ceasing membership does not invalidate the fact that I was certified.
Therefore I refused. My website does not state that I am a member...it states "certificates of graduation and membership received".....which I have.

Now where is the fraud ?


I am a licensed insurance consultant. I consult both as a broker and at other times as a fraud consultant. I have trained insurance investigators and police investigators in forensic investigation techniques since late 80's.

I was a member of the Assoc of Certified Fraud Examiners Tx and SA for years. I let my memberships lapse.

LIc = Lafayette Instrument Company.
I completed an Instructors course there in 1998.
Chris Faucett will remember me.

WRT to SAPA (actually PASA) their anti-vsa stance leaves me cold. They merely cut and paste from APA website.
I dont think there is 1 amongst them that could spell research. Their website lists President: Daan Bekker...well God bless his soul, the man passed away several years ago.
PASA is run by a zombie it seems.

I am not ONE Dimensional Bill.
I did develop AVSA with Alpes. I am the primary distributor. I am VSA Instructor and based on my Certification from LIC, I am also permitted by law to instruct polygraph in SA, which I do. I teach forensic investigation techniques. I have written a book on DOD (sold out 3 print runs) and have been asked by publisher to write another - nearly finished.
I am a licensed insurance consultant in 4 categories. I have a restaurant with an adjoining theatre.
I buy and sell cut diamonds. My wife and I manufacture jewellery. We buy and sell antique furniture.

Now that I have corrected you, I think an apology is in order.
  
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Re: CVSA Maker Admits Device Cannot Detect Lies!
Reply #14 - May 29th, 2011 at 10:29am
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Stefano,

You sound like a total jerk.

Internet marketing is one of the most effective ways to get a product name into the marketplace.

Now, even a dickhead has heard of it.
  
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