Saidme wrote on Jun 12^th, 2003 at 3:18pm:


Dear Saidme,

What about the truly innocent examinee who is completely truthful, does not use any form of countermeasures, and is accused of countermeasures and failed?  There is not much recourse in the FBI.  You are guilty until proven innocent and you can not prove yourself innocent because they refuse to go to background if you "failed" (and thus might shoot themselves in the foot when nothing is found).  In my case this happened and I can assure you that I used no countermeasures.  I only wish I could get hold of my charts just to see what this guy was talking about.

Such anger 

Let me respond to you guys one at a time.   

Drew, with regards to the spelling.  I cut and pasted.  Apparently the cut and pasting was not catching all your text.   

Wombat, I've yet to see a 100% cool calm customer walk into a polygraph examination.  It just doesn't happen.  The very thought of going through the process cause anxiety.  Examinee's may not show their anxiety, but I assure you, it's there.  So to answer your question, probably so.  But that would be the exception, not the rule.

Poly-Killer (how dramatic), I don't know the circumstances surrounding your polygraph examination (specific issue, screening, CSP) so I can't really comment on your alleged feat.  What was the relevant issue that caused you to use CM's?  Was it criminal activity, serious crime, drugs?  I would like to hear about the relevant issue which you needed to overcome to get through your polygraph test.  I would be curious to know.  If you didn't have any problems with the relevant questions and used CM's just to assist yourself, how do you know it wasn't your truthful responses that got you through the test?  I think George stated earlier that there really is no way to distinguish the difference.

Saidme,

You can read all about my experiences in my initial post in...    "Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: TO read or not to read the the truth behind poly.  May 1st, 2003, 10:14pm"  

You can feel free to respond with all the moral bs and how I shouldn't have lied...yada yada yada...but before you do, I've heard it all before...so I have a healthy backlog of retorts to any issue of "integrity" you might raise.  8)

Nonetheless, I have effectively laid to waste 3 "tests" and 3 different examiners. Granted, I did have a little "inside help", but it was, for the most part, EXACTLY the kind CM's that are described in TLBTLD, that I used on all my "tests" with the exception of a little "hands-on" experience before my first test. They were not the specific-issue format, they were screening "tests". 

The fact is, once the shroud of mystery is lifted and poly-screening is exposed for the fraud that it is, it just becomes a sick joke for anyone who educates themselves on your "lie-detector tests" and there is a huge "reversal of fortune", so to speak. Because now the examiner is the one duped into thinking he/she is in control. I am thoroughly, 100% convinced that properly applied CMs cannot be detected with any kind of real "accuracy". Sure, you may take a shot and arbitrarily accuse someone of CMs, or catch someone applying them improperly or at improper times, but that is not a true measure of the ability to detect countermeasures, you only catch people who screw them up, hell...my 11-year-old could be taught to do that.

After all, the ones who have properly applied the CMs have very likely slipped right in under your radar, and you were none the wiser.

What state are you in? Maybe you're one of the examiners I stuck it to. I'll make it easy for you, Im in Arizona, a state whose law REQUIRES a polygraph for all LEOs.  




Best,
PK

Geoge

Unfortunately those "dumb enough to admit it" are your clients (for lack of a better word).   

Poly-Killer

I don't really have the time to research all the drivel that's has taken place on this site and I'm not going to preach any "integrity bs" to you either.  You must be proud of yourself.  No, I'm not in Arizona but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.

Beech Trees

Those innocents that come through the door are entering a profession that places alot of stress on their daily lives.  If they can't deal with a simple polygraph examination then they should seriously reconsider the profession they've chose.  A polygraph examination will be the least of their problems as their careers progress.

Saidme,

You were the one who asked for the info surrounding my "alleged feats", so I provided it. For someone who lacks time to do research, you seem to post here with regularity lately. Besides, not having time is a poor excuse for something that would only require a couple mouse clicks, I gave you directions that even a polygrapher could follow...very simple. I don't blame you, you would probably find it very troubling, I wouldn't want to read it either if I were you. 

By the way, I'm not "proud" that I had to be dishonest, unlike polygraphers, it doesn't come second-nature to me, and there are times I regret having lied. It was a means to an end, and it was well worth it. I'd do it over in again in a heart beat.

I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...not my style.  8)

Best,
PK

What I did was in no way "amazing"...I was simply lucky enough to be "informed". 

"Hypocrisy?"...I NEVER said I was "justified", that smoking pot should be legal, there's nothing wrong with it, etc. I knew it was illegal and that was a chance I took. I was fortunate enough to have not gotten caught, if I had, there would have been no one to blame but myself. The difference is, I WISED UP, I decided I wanted more out of my life than that. Honestly, I think I am a better cop today because of my experiences.

Besides, just so you know, it's not like we're talking about daily, or even weekly marijuana use, more like once a month or less, over a period of about 3 - 4 years. I have never purchased it, it was more a matter of a young man simply wanting to be like his peers, doing what I thought, at the time, was cool. 

As far as my drug arrests go, I operate FULLY within the confines of the law. Where the totality of the circumstances permit, and where I believe it will do more good, I may simply have a "youngster" flush his "stash" down the toilet. You can call it hypocrisy, but I don't get off on charging youths with criminal offenses that may haunt them forever, just because they have a joint...that's the way it is in the real world, like it or not.  That's NOT why I became a Police Officer.

Besides, the judges wouldn't like me if I started putting the most minor offenses in front of them on a daily basis because it is counter-productive. Unfortunately, there are more pressing issues in our society today than marijuana use. 

Like I said...I've heard it all before...next...?

PK

Saidme wrote on Jun 13^th, 2003 at 3:36pm:


Have you ever taken a polygraph, Saidme?

Skeptic

Saidme wrote on Jun 13^th, 2003 at 5:26pm:


I just thought about something (OK, Im slow today)...Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that a person who MAKES A LIVING BY LYING talks about HYPOCRISY?   

Saidme,

You ever hear the saying "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"? In terms of hypocrisy, your house is made of EXTREMELY thin glass. 

PK