Ok, lets get back on track.  No more name calling,no more casting aspersians just straight talk.

First, as I said earlier I don't think you are a drug abuser and I never said that.  You said that you could prove to batman you were not.  You said you could do that by having a third party involved and sending them ( I believe in a fax) copies or photos of your unfilled prescriptions as well as showing a filled prescription with most of the pills still in the bottle.  Is that not correct?

I simply said that would not prove anything.  My reasons were 1) You would never have to take a single pill prescribed by your doctor and still be able to obtain enough medication illegally to control your condition or abuse the drug.  2)  I was trying to point out that a photo of a bottle of pills would not prove what they actually were or were not.  I don't care what color anything is you can't readily identify it by a bottle in a photo.  You said you worked in a pharmacy, are you saying that if I sent you a photo of a bottle of pills you could identify it?  Maybe you could but it doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't prove anything.  3)  My other point was that you could not find an objective or unbiased third person on this site.  I used Skepitcs name because he and Batman obviously have a history and no way could he be considered unbiased, just as Batman would not be unbiased about anything having to do with Skeptic.

Other things,

I don't care if you ever tell anyone about your medical condition and I think you are right that it is not their business.  I simply thought it was strange that you were saying how you were a good person and have nothing to hide but didn't seem to mind both lying and cheating to get a job.

I didn't bring up religion only pointed out, incorrectly I might add, one of the ten commandments and said it was not amended to read "unless it benefits me".  I never claimed to be religious, pious, saintly or perfect just that I was taught (as I thought most people were when young) lying, cheating, stealing were wrong.  Have I ever lied? Certainly but I also admit that it was against commom morals and values. 

Skeptic says "could you prove you are not a child molester" thats just wrong and I'll bet, much lower than anything Batman may have ever said but you sure think he's special.  I'll tell you something, if I was interrogating a child molester and I had to lie to get him to confess I would do it in a heart beat.  Truthful people of competent mental capacity don't confess to crimes they did not commit.

Somebody brought up DNA testing, saying how many people have been found guilty then released after DNA proved they were not.  I don't know but bet it doesn't exceed a thousand.  Out of the millions of people found guilty through proper legal channels, I would say thats pretty good.  Maybe we shouldn't put anyone in jail unless we have DNA proof of their guilt.

Fair chance, would you mind responding to my questions posted previously, please.

Curious to see how this gets twisted around

confused

Batman......never fear Caped Crusader, your fellow Justice Leaguers are hear and watching from afar.  You are doing quite well poking the stick at Michelle...and the rest of her "new found friends" who obviously is suffering an ongoing bout of PMS (probably exacerbated by her legal "wink" dex use.  There can be little doubt that she is NOT the little innocent seeker of information who just came to this site to find a caring individual.  Hey! maybe she is the one who told George he is cute when he first posted his picture.  Hell, seeing she launched an attack on you as having an alter ego (i.e. "confused") maybe "she" is reaaly George in drag.  Uh oh!  am I now going to get sued for libel Septic...do I have to take that back? Am I Batman? Is the world flat?  I am soooo (he, he, he) "confused".   The only (seemingly) anti-polygrapher here who is worth a damn is Two Block.  Perhaps someday, you will get the answers you seek you old salt! (and I mean that with the highest of respect), but I doubt if that will occur here because o matter what logic is offered, it is attacked and NEVER once have the Georgeettes said anything positive about the process...so why should we?...As my fellow suuper hero said once before, "it is much more fun standing outside the fence poking a stick in your face".  I cannot help but notice the genuinely few individuals who whine and complain about their failed polygraph.  Michelle provides a new wrinkle...she is whining and hasn't even taken hers yet! I know of thousands (just a "few" of them are in the report that George so graciously provided a link to) who took their exams, passed and were granted their clearances and accesses and while they perhaps did not like the process, they took it without the carping that we see on this site.  Compare this to the really very few who complian on this site...each of them (save Michelle) failed their tests. Now from a statistical point of view, those few are certainly staisticlly insignificant because they do not represent the "norm".  Well that's about all for now from this part of the world...Okay fellow Justice Leaguers....take your place at the whining fence and unsheath your sticks.....prepare to poke!

Torpedo, you're just the spacing between the grown-ups' posts.

Skeptic

Torpedo wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2003 at 12:17am:


Wow... after a post like this I'm just glad you are on the *other* side of the debate.  You'd make our side hang our heads in shame if we had to claim you.

Okay...I have been overwhelmed with "information" from both sides of the coin these past several months. I have read nearly 4,000 posts off of this board alone and realize many of you have very strong opinions - some I would venture to refer to as extremists - and many who are just plain full of themselves. I have had a wonderful time particularly reading the posts from Batman, Skeptic, Drew, George, and BeechTrees due to their (generally) informative, yet sometimes biased nature. I can clearly see the divide between those for and those against the use/abuse of the polygraph but appreciate both viewpoints so that I can make more sense of my own opinion. 

I do believe the polygraph machine and the entire mystique leading up to (and through) the testing experience can prove worthwhile - for those it coerces into outright confessions - however, now that I am educated (I believe) on the manner in which the simplistic comparisons are made with relevant and control questions, I am quite concerned for the average (honest) person and frustrated by the deception employed by the polygrapher to make the whole "scenario" seem to work. It bothers me that up until 4 months ago I was also under the assumption that a machine really existed that would simply indicate whether your reaction/response was of a deceptive nature or not - I feel as though somehow society (okay so I'm being a little grandiose there) has mislead me. However, now after reading several books, thousands of differing perspectives in these posts, and astute literature from the American Psychological Association and from the American Polygraph Association, I have developed my own beliefs.....the polygraph isn't much, but it is the best we have at this point - now mind you, I did say it isn't much. 

Do I think it's equitable in the manner in which it can socially and professionally destroy an individual that has spent countless years preparing for a life or career in security or law enforcement - HELL NO! 

But, that is also why I am glad to have come across this site in particular. You see, I have a polygraph "experience" coming up in the next several weeks as a screening for a city police department, and in order to know what to expect, I did a little research. I searched the web in order to get a better understanding of what to expect, what kind of questions or directions the test may take, and how long I would be there.....but, I was floored to find what I did!!!

I can't thank you guys enough for allowing me to stand by and learn so much from your arguments so that I may assimilate your words with other info I have collected and make my own decisions. I think there are several on this board (see previously mentioned names - both "good" and "bad guys") that are obviously rather intelligent and are  doing themselves and the public a grave disservice IF they are not utilizing their talents in another manner (I don't know...you may be). But for the most part, I believe that regardless of which side of the fence you stand, the intelligent and spirited posters (again...see previously mentioned) truly believe in what they do and are NOT into destroying anyone or their reputation. 

I know if I were a polygrapher and was faced with all of the evidence (fact and fiction) against polygraph testing, my conscience would not want to believe and I probably would have a hard time with it particularly if I spent the majority of my life proclaiming its wonders. You see, in this society, men (usually) are far too often identified as "what they do" rather than "who they are". When men initiate conversation in social gatherings, quite often one of the first forms of introduction refer to what they do for a living and unfortunately that is how society has defined man - so, it would be rather difficult to conciosuly ever accept that my history could have been in vain. 

Anyway, as I mentioned, I think this is generally an awesome vehicle for discussion and communication. Yeah, occasionally you guys get too caught up in "playing tag" with your rhetoric, but for the most part it is very informative. And sometimes, even when you are slinging mud, you guys have quite a sense of humor!! 

But Michelle, Batman has a point....you come out of nowhere in your original post with what seems to be a naive and innocent question and within hours you are a master poster - able to answer all questions with a single retort, capable of taking down any and all oncoming polygraphers, and more powerful than the combined intelligence of the very senior posters I have enjoyed reading thus far. It really seems that you came in here either with a hidden agenda, or as your consistent (sometimes MANY in several minutes) posts may suggest, you are looking for validation. Now I'm sure this will prompt a "return remark" which I will gleefully swallow with no hard feelings b/c I know that you have many times mentioned you are strong and stubborn (or something of that nature), but I really hope this is not where you turn for support. Believe me or not, I am not attempting to be demeaning and I won't bother to quarrel with you - merely an observation from the outside.

Anyway, I hope all of you continue to post interesting opinions and objections...besides, where would the world be if we all just agreed?

Why are you deliberately being dense about your proof? One more time, all I said was showing what you have doesn't prove you don't or couldn't have more.  I did not say you did, just that your proof isn't proof.  Since when does any drug user make sense?  Your being deliberately obtuse.  How does showing unfilled prescriptions prove someone is not a drug abuser?  Again, I didn't say you were and incase you didn't notice I am trying to be less obnoxious or biased or whatever you think I am being, so how about returning the favor?

You keep saying you have answered my questions.  Obviously I must be dense because it is not clear to me.  So please, one more time. Do you think it is ok to lie and / or cheat to get a job?

Would you mind telling me what it is I am biased about?  I don't think I said anything pro or con about Polygraph.  You mean if I am pro Polygraph I am biased and if con not biased.  Under those circumstances that would make you biased also wouldn't it?  Just like anyone who has an opinion pro or con.

not confused but still using the name

Quote:


Anonymous,
Welcome back!  We've had quite a run of it here.

Skeptic

Confused

You have jumped all over Michelle about lieing and cheating in order to get a job. Will you answer a question from me? Do you think it is OK for our elected officials to lie and cheat (accepting illegal contributions - one of many ways they cheat) in order to get their jobs. You know as well as I most, if not all, of them do. If you do not condon it, what are you doing about it? Voting for some other dipstick who lied to you to get your vote? I will ask you another question that polygraphers will NOT answer. Do you think our politicians and their appointments should have to pass a polygraph in order to obtain and/or keep their positions? Why does everyone, beside me shy away from this subject? Is everyone afraid to nail them with the truth?

In case you don't go back far enough in these threads, my hobby for forty years has been trying expose corruption both in industry and public service. My phone has been tapped and I have been threatened but my response is "hey asshole I wear a side arm, I am as fast as Sammy Davis Jr. and as accurate as the Lone Ranger so bring it on" So far I have had no takers. Hell, I'm not smart enough to be afraid of them.

I think you are wrong in acusing her of possibly abusing drugs. She came on here asking a legitimate question and she is jumped all over and acused of being a druggie. No one but her can know if she is or isn't. I don't know her, you don't know her, no one on these boards knows her so how can anyone make a legitimate assumption that she abuses legal drugs?

Machelle

I am not knowledgable enough on the polygraph to advise you. All I can say is do what you think is best and GOOD LUCK.