Hello all,

I have been working in the security field for about three years now.  About a year ago, I decided that I wanted to be a Police Officer.  I work with officers on almost a daily basis and decided that that was what I wanted to do with my life.  Through talking with the officers I found out that during the hiring process I would have to take a Lie Detector Test.  Well, I pretty much put up the white flag at that point.  There were certain mistakes that I made when I was 17 that I knew would automatically disqualify me.  I tried some heavy drugs for a very brief period that year and smoked my weight in marijuana ???  That's been years ago now, but I knew that time wasn't a factor when it came to the heavy stuff.  I decided to look a little more into the whole polygraph thing after hearing murmur's from some officers that it was "bullshit" and that's when I came across this site.  That was December of last year.

I studied TLBTLD and read posts on this site for about six months and then finally put my application in in June of this year.  The process was a little drawn out but pretty much stress free until last week when I took my poly.  Well first of all, it was my responsibility to call the polyagrapher to make the appointment.  I called him up on Monday and he asks me how Tuesday morning at 10am sounds.  "That's tommorow!!!!"  I screamed inside my head, but outloud I said "sounds great".   

I get to his office at 9:40 am.  I didn't bring a book like TLBTLD suggests but I was well aware that I might be under surveillance.  I let the secretary know I was there and I sat down.  Literally 30 seconds later a man comes into the waiting room and introduces himself to me and asks me back to his office.  It was Time!!!

I walk into the room and I see a table with a small older looking polygraph machine, a chair on one side and a chair on the other side.  He points to the chair that I assumed was mine and tells me to have a seat.  He seemed like he was in a hurry the whole time.  He pulls out my file and some papers and starts the pre-test almost immediately.  He did seem to be rushing but he was friendly.  He did first give the run down on how the machine works.  Almost word for word the way TLBTLD said he would.  He then tells me that he is going to ask these questions exactly as they will asked on the test.   The two drug questions were, "Have you ever bought or sold any illegal narcotics?"  The truth was yes, I had bought narcotics in my lifetime, but I answered no.
The other one was, "Have you used any illegal drugs in the past 3 years?" The truth was no and I said no.
I flagged both of those as relevant.
The only control question I found was "Have you ever commited a crime that had gone undetected?"  I made him narrow his question by asking about traffic violations and minor things when I was a kid, and he modified it to "Other then what you told me...."  The truth obviously was still yes, I said no...knowing this was a cq.   
So, he then says, I am now going to ask you  questions that I want you to lie to.  On the inside I said "WHAT!!!  This is like a 1/2 and 1/2 directed lie test...This Ain't in the book!!!"  On the outside I said, "OK!"  He says "Are you wearing pants?"  and "Are you wearing a watch?" I did as he instructed abd said no to both.  I said to myself, this is too easy.  He just gave me the questions that I'm going to augment through the roof.
Then he hooks me up to the machine and I feel like I'm going to explode.  My Heart rate had to be 130-140 and my palms started to sweat.  He asked me if I was nervous and I answered yes.  He then goes through his list of questions.  10 total.  4 relevant.  3 irrelevant.  1 control and the 2 directed lie control questions.  I augmented my response to CQ by breathing faster and doing the sphincter tug.  Where I thought I did really well was I didn't aument my response as much on the hidden CQ as I did on the 2 directed lie questions.   
After going through the ten questions once, he leaves the room and comes back in about 5 minutes.  I remained still, as I was still hooked up and just kept my mind clear.  He goes through the questions again and I stay consistant with my augmentations.  This time though, he asks "OTWYTM Have you ever commited a crime that has gone undetected?" a second time.  I answered no and augmented my response again and he waited quite a while before he said, "The test is now over"  He turns off the machine and starts to take everything off of me and says, "The only question that you had a little trouble with was the Undetcted Crime question.  Is there anything that you didn't tell me? "  I said, "As soon as you asked me that question an incident popped up in my head where when I was a teenager I was in Boston and me and a couple of my friends snuck in the back entrance of a movie theater."   He says, "So you saw a movie without paying?"  I said, "Yeah."  So he says, "OK, Now all I do is send the results to the PD and you'll continue on in the process.  I then left.   

It was Over.  I knew by the way he was acting that I passed.   

I went home and smoked a fat joint...Just kidding!!!  Wanted to though.   

Just wanted to let you guys know how much I value this web site.  I wouldn't have even pursued the job if you guys didn't create this site.  Thank you and I truly am Grateful.   

I know this was extremely long and drawn out but after a year of just reading and studying I figured I'd put in my 200 cents.


Grateful

Probably not.  The narcotics that I used when I was a teenager probably would have disqualified me.   

Am I qualified???

Absolutely

How quick we are to cast the first stone.  I believe he was using this thing called humor when he was referring to lighting up a blunt, however, I do agree that lying is not the best way to start a career in LE, but had he not ommitted the drug use as a teen then he would have no chance for a career in LE anyway.   I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that a person as a teenager and that same person as an adult are two completely different people.  Granted I always kind of knew I wanted to pursue LE as a career and avoided drugs with the exception of Marijuana which I tried as a teen and knew right then and there that drugs were not for me, but many people had no clue what they wanted to be or even who they were as teens.  Some of the best officers I have worked with were not ideal teenagers, but made a change for the better.   Departments that automatically disqualify candidates for using any drug no matter how long ago it was used have got to have the dumbest policy I have ever heard.
Anyway, I wish everyone the best of luck in their pursuits in LE and hope this guy is one of those exceptions and proves people like Public Servant wrong.

Public Servant - can you PLEASE pass me some of that Kool-Aid you and your self-righteous ilk are passing around. Integrity -- don't make me laugh. See my comments in the other section about cops and firemen drinking like fish, and then hopping behind the wheel of their cars. As a fireman, I went to countless accident scene where their "brothers in blue" looked the other way at such transgressions. The best was the case where local cops actually arrested an off-duty NYPD officer for drunk driving – and then received death threats at the station for doing so! 

Let me trying phrasing this another way – not one of the men and women in blue (and the firemen) who died in 9-11 – not a single one, ever had to take a polygraph exam to get their position. How can the best police and fire departments in the nation (I’m showing my native NY bias) manage to thrive without using polygraphs to screen recruits?

Some of the best cops I know where the biggest druggies when they were teens. People can change -- and using the polygraph to ferret them out, at the very real risk of disqualifying honest candidates, is stupid and unfair. 

Public Servant and others,

I will gladly listen to your pronouncements and pontifications regarding integrity---THE DAY YOU STOP USING POLYGRAPH FORMATS THAT REQUIRE DECEPTION EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU USE THEM!  Until then, hold your phony claims of outrage at the examinee who will return the favor to you when he deceives you about countermeasures.  The FIRST LIE and greatest LIES and most consistent LIES are not those of any examinee, but come from you the polygrapher.  Don't even think of raising such issues until you clean up your own house.

Grate--ful,

I have no problem conceiving of you being a real person with a true story to include your tale of successful countermeasure application.  Prior to several accounts like yours, I would have thought it highly beneficial if not necessary to at least practice with an instrument, but the weight of the anecdotal evidence is beginning to make me think a careful reading and consideration of the points discussed in the The Lie Behind the Lie Detector may well be sufficient for the needs of an examinee who desires to successfully apply countermeasures.  You are quite correct in your assessment that if you can "do it" so can a considerably less desirable applicant, employee, criminal suspect, etc.  The only way to protect innocent examinees without requiring them to use the same countermeasures that will allow an unscrupulous individual to beat the test and harm the system, is to completely end polygraph screening.  No other solution will do.

stopnik wrote on Dec 20^th, 2002 at 6:45pm:

Dear stopnik,

You bewilderment is justified because there are not any scientific means to predict future behavior.  The NAS study has confirmed that polygraph screening as used in employment examinations by itself has no better ability to predict future spies or security risk than chance guessing (actually even less than chance when you acknowledge that only a small percentage of applicants would be spies to begin with). The polygraph examination has nothing to do with being able to predict behavior.  The examination has everything to do with trying to elicit confessions concerning past behavior.

Regards.

stopnik wrote on Dec 20^th, 2002 at 6:45pm:


stopnik,
IMHO, it doesn't.

The polygraph is a unique sitation, and one a candidate for a job is unlikely to come across otherwise...unless that candidate is tortured for information.  As such, I suppose it might be a good indicator of who will crack and spill his guts under pressure.  Ironic.

Skeptic