I understand your confusion with the statement: 

"the key.. is to produce stronger phsyiological responses when answering the Control questions than when anwering the relevant questions"

The problem with the advice on this site is there is no simple way to know how you can create a stronger physiological response to the "control" question vs. the relevant questions.  As reflected on previous posts you'll have to go out and aquire some equipment and experiement on yourself (see below).  For your sake, hopefully you will not go up against an examiner trained in how to sometimes detect people engaging in these countermeasures.  

Quote from George W. Maschke:

"Clearly, one cannot know with absolute certainty that one has produced stronger responses to the "control" questions than to the relevant questions. (However, the absence of a post-test interrogation will provide some indication that one has succeeded.)

Reactions can only be controlled directly with regard to the repiratory channels of the polygraph instrument. On the respiratory channels, one can be certain not to produce a scorable reaction with regard to any of the relevant questions while wilfully producing scorable reactions when answering the "control" questions.

It seems likely that any potential reactions to the relevant questions on the electrodermal and cardio channels will be attenuated when one understands the fraudulent nature of polygraph "testing," simply because one will understand that one need not fear them. As some who report having successfully employed countermeasures have observed, the hardest part may be not to laugh as the polygrapher goes through his monkey drill.

Those who wish to compare their relative responses to "control" vs. relevant questions on the electrodermal channel may do so by making a tape recording of a question series with a mix of relevant, irrelevant, and "control" questions at 20-30 second intervals and playing it back while monitoring their electrodermal responses with a galvanometer."

Good Luck!

How proud you must be.  You "bald faced lied on 3/4 of the questions".  It's apparent you haven't changed as much as you would like to think.  You've simply replaced stealing and drug use with being a liar.  My money says you haven't completely stopped the drug use either.  Good to see another lieing, doper, thief is getting a good job in an area where we need folks like you!

Good luck, and if I were a betting man, you'll be either fired or you'll quit within the year.

Quote:


The people who have trouble seeing past their own noses are those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions/behavior, past or present.  Many federal employees have had prior criminal histories, too include petty theft and drugs.  They got the job by being HONEST regarding their past and taking responsibility for themselves.  I'd say it is cowardly of anyone to lie in the first place, but especially cowardly too brag anonymously on this web site!

Batman

You preach honesty - tell the truth, etc. Why in hell can't you and all other polygraphers practice what you preach. Why can't you just truthfully tell your subjects, "I am here to trick you every way I can"? "I get my jollies just jacking you up to fail the test"? "I am here to play card and number magic on you and hope you believe my machine will tell me when you lie"? "I get off on holding your future in my hands while making money"? I could go on and on. Fact is, you couldn't be a polygrapher without lying to and deceiving you subjects.

Face it. You people are in a business that requires lying in order to get the results that YOU want. In the eyes of God, your lies are just as bad as your subject's.

Eisenmann:

It's there, you just have to be willing to see it.  However, please do not miss the point, why not simply own up to past mistakes, if they were in fact mistakes, rather than compound them with additional lies?  It's very easy to say that one will own up for one's actions when evey other person on the planet is called upon to do the same, but why wait for that day, if and when it ever comes?

As for the usefulness of polygraph, some valid points can probably be made on both sides of the fence as to it's validity, but once again, do not allow yourself to be confused by the simple fact, the only "lie detector" in any polygraph setting is the Examinee.  He/she provides the data, then it's up to the Examiner to conduct an evaluation.  Therein lies the weakness of the technique.  Improperly trained Examiners, and those not subject or held accountable to some higher level of review are the problem.  Why not approach this issue from that perspective?  We have bad doctors in the field of medicine, yet we do not call for a ban on the practice of medicine.  We have bad pilots and mechanics who cause planes to crash, but we do not call for a ban on flying.  However, with polygraph it has to be all or nothing.  Possibly because it is looked upon as a potential invasion of privacy, yet no one is "forced" to undergo the procedure.

What do you think?

For Two Block:

Only God knows what is in his eyes, but my "jollies" don't come from "jacking" people up so they can fail a polygraph.  They come from obtaining a confession (if it is there to be obtained) in order to resolve a crime.

I'm sure you are referring to pre-employment screening exams in focusing your anger, hopefully that is the case.  If not, then maybe we can discuss the true usefulness of polygraph in law enforcement, the real world, where the rubber meets the raod so to speak.

Your call.

Okay; I'm pleased with the dialogue here, and that nobody has become sensitive, aggressive, or withdrawn. Batman, please understand that I do NOT want you to go away. I have always had an appreciation for intelligent arguments as long as both parties are not taking the opposite viewpoint for the sake of being contradictory. 

No, I'm afraid that I'm not seeing it because I'm not *willing* to see it. He never said that he'd sold drugs. That was your assumption. If I'm wrong on this, then FormerOfficer needs to let us both know. Trust me in that if I am wrong, I certainly will say so. 

I *have* owned up to past mistakes. But you must understand that if I were to categorically list every mistake I'd ever made, it would take one hell of a long time to get through them. And I'm talking about things that happened when I was 13 years old...or SEVEN years old...or even younger than that! I clearly remember lying to my parents when I was six years old-my dog slept in my bed and I said that he didn't. Yes yes yes...I completely understand that this is the farthest thing from a crime as is possible. But it IS a lie, isn't it? And I know I've lied about many, many things since. The last thing in the world I want to do is to compound the lies. But how do I know that if I own up to these past mistakes, that others will see them the same way? To an examiner, if I told him/her everything, it would certainly appear that I was routinely deceptive, or at least manipulative. Does this not make sense to you?

I am a responsible adult, have finally paid off my truck, and finally purchased my own home. It's tiny, but it's mine. Why wait for the day when everyone on the planet is called to tell their sins? Because it hasn't happened yet, and I have no idea if it ever WILL happen. Deep down in my heart, I know I'm a good person. And, at the risk of sounding arrogant or egotistical, I am DAMN good at my job. It's pretty much all I have, and all I've ever wanted to do. My mistakes are mine. MINE. I've done nothing illegal, or probably even IMMORAL, in almost twelve years. When I was barely more than a teenager. Yet those things can (and HAVE) precluded me from earning a job in my chosen occupation. Believe me, sir; I have tried being 100% honest with several potential employers, and was DQ'ed from their process. I have never, EVER been arrested or even detained by any law enforcement officer. I just had a problem with substance abuse. Yet if I'm honest about it, I'm disqualified. If I try to keep it to myself, I pass the polygraph/CVSA, yet in your eyes I'm branded a liar. 

We have 6 billion people on this planet; I would give my life to spare any one of them. I don't care who they are. Yet still, I'm given these asinine truth telling tests and expected to give my life's story. I'm sorry, but that will happen no longer. I tried your way, and it just doesn't work. 

I welcome any further discussions, and I can promise I will not resort to personal attacks (not saying that you did, but that seems to have chased people off in the past). I truly would like to hear an opposing viewpoint.

In the meantime, stay safe. I've no doubt you're one of the good ones.

Batman wrote on May 15^th, 2002 at 11:18pm:



Sounds to me like you're doing a lot of "justifying".  Kind of like the guy who robbed the bank so he could put bread on the family table.  Nice fairy tale, but not reality.  You could have sold the car rather then sell drugs, but we all make choices in life, then we have to live with them. 

Batman,
   I am quite aware of the wrong things I have done, and have not tried to "justify" them, but rather "explain" them.  The main problem encountered is the PERSONAL BIAS of the tester, and the Political bias of the agency.  Their and your reasoning has NOTHING at all to do with FAIRNESS, you and testers like you are judgemental SOBs.

Never would like to think that just because someone made mistakes in their youth they would be labeled as a bad person forever, however to continue to live the lies is not a glowing character trait.   
  And when someone actually spills everything, then they are judged (routinely) on past actions that in many cases have NOTHING to do with the present.  So what if someone smoked crack once or twice in college.   No they're 28-30 and have'nt touched the stuff in years, yet if they admit the usuage of anything more than weed, they WILL be DQ'd.   Same applies for my situation, on top of the fact that I've never USED, SOLD or even been around drugs except when I arrested someone for it, I popped on the Poly for DRUG USAGE......  THAT's why I'm here at this site.  I got screwed over by your fancy BS meter machine



Very few agencies, be they Federal or civilian, are expecting to hire saints in this day and age. 
Obviously you are ignorant about the hiring process then...  I've been through 4 in two states, 2 with poly, 2 without.  There are several things that if you are honest about your background will end up with disqualifing you.   
1.  Heavy Drug usage
2.  Association with any group (political or otherwise) that they see as "radical" (no matter how long ago it was)
3.  More than 1 DUI/DWI and in many cases, one is enough, no matter if it happened 10 years ago or what.


There is somewhat of an expectation that potential employees will have done things (like drug use) in their youth.  What also is expected is some level of honesty.  It seems that the prevailing attitude on this site is lie and cheat to get what you want, and then rationalize it with telling everyone how twisted the system is. 

No, actually, you are VERY wrong about that.  many of the threads I have read here have URGED people to go the "whole truth" or "spill you guts" method, but some things, as I have disclosed above, CANNOT be disclosed, lest your app be disposed of, and you recieve the cordial "thanks for applying"....
   This country is in dire straits, they NEED good people in Police/Fed agencies.  To continue to use this farce of a science to disuade good people from joining is hurting our national security and the security of the people.  People who perpetuate this LIE, like yourself, are MOST responsable for the lack of qualified people out there.


As for polygraph, your ignorance speaks volumes.  A persons state of mind is exaclty what they're all about. 

   Well, having taken two of them, I beg to differ.  They tell NOTHING of a persons "state of mind" nor are they a "moral indicator".   They are a Bullshit method of "science" if you can call it that, that is used to discriminate ROUTINELY potential candidates that they don't want.

   You can make me out as the bad guy, but I have commendation upon commendation, and MANY letters of appreciation for the work I have done in Law Enforcement, and two Honorable Discharges from the Military, with many medals.   
   And BTW - Everyone lies, including you.   You could say you never do, but that'd be a lie....