Ray wrote on Feb 13^th, 2004 at 9:52pm:


Ray,

My examiner actually showed me my chart with the pneumo, cardio, and GSR spikes, and asked if I knew why I was reacting to certain drug questions.  I told him that I had no idea, since I've never been a drug user.  He was very persistant in trying to get me to admit to using or experimenting with drugs (specifically methanphetamines) during this post test interrogation.  He kept telling me that the machine doesn't lie, and that I needed to come clean.  I have never touched methanphetamines, and told him exactly that.  The examiner then asked me to take my shoes off, and he actually felt inside of them (for a tack?).  From what I know now, he obviously suspected countermeasures (I didn't know what they were at the time) but couldn't find anything to confirm his suspicions.  Maybe it was my insistance that I had never done drugs, or maybe deep down he actually believed me.....I don't know for sure, but he told me that he thought I was an excellent candidate for the department, but we needed to straighten this out.  He told me he was going to give me a week to think about my answers, and schedule me for another polygraph.  He also told me that I could call him at any time during the next week if I happened to remember any drug use.  I left the polygraph office extremely pissed off, and wasn't going to come back the following week.  I calmed down after a day, and started to do some research on the polygraph.  I came across this site and Doug Williams' website.  After educating myself on the process, I felt like a complete idiot for putting myself into that situation without doing my homework on the polygraph.  Thanks to guys like George and Doug, I learned what a joke the polygraph really is, and was able to prepare myself accordingly for my re-test.      

Kona

Ray, with all do respect, if polygraphs do in fact work then why do inconclusive results occur.  If an m.d. took a blood sample to determine if a patient was infected with HIV, and the result was inconclusive, the method that was used would surely be discarded and given no credibility at all.   The same would fall true for a test for any toxin in the blood or urine.  My point is that if a method truly works, then the results would be defined as plus or negative, or in this instance d.i. or n.d.i.    End of story.

Kona,

Was your first test found "deceptive" or "inconclusive"? If it was actually a DI test, why do you think you were granted a re-test so quickly?  A true DI test generally would require a lengthy appeal process prior to a re-test being granted.

Ray wrote on Feb 12^th, 2004 at 8:57pm:


Ray,

No, I had nothing to hide, and I told the truth on all relevant questions.   

A week prior I had been given a pre-employment polygraph with the same police dept and found to be deceptive (without using countermeasures), but was  given a second chance.  I used countermeasures on the second exam a week later (telling the same truth) and passed without a hitch.   

Kona

Kona,

Did you have anything to hide regarding relevant issues on your polygraph?  Just curious....

Quote:


Funny, I didn't know I was in a dispute with George.  If George's technique in TLBTLD is to employ the pneumo and cardio CMs for a slightly longer period of time, I have no problem with that.  I was just passing on the techiques taught by Doug Williams.   

Vast amount of ignorance?  Hahahahahah.  Isn't that just like an all knowing polygraph "professional."  Living in denial, coupled with arrogance and a condesending manner are your hallmarks.  I personally utilized Doug Williams' countermeasure techniques, and they worked like a charm for my polygraph exam.  Let me guess, you're one of those polygraph "professionals" that can detect all countermeasures, right?  Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot.......countermeasures don't work, so why bother employing them?  Ignorance you say?  Your picture is right next to the definition in Webster's Dictionary.    

If you're so good at your job, and all of us are so ignorant and clueless, then why don't you accept Dr. Richardson's countermeasure challenge, and prove us all wrong.  It would be the perfect opportunity for you to make a name for yourself in the polygraph community, and be a real hero!  Maybe after you put all of us pesky antipolygraph people in our place, Jack Trimarco would hire you as his assistant on his new Court TV series.  Think of all the possibilities!!   

Of course, we all know that this will never happen because you would never risk being made to look like an incompetent boob, or suffer the negative consequences to your career as a result of your inability to accurately detect countermeasures.  I actually don't blame you for not accepting the challenge.  You have a real nice day.

Kona 

Quote:


And that comment, ladies and gentleman, from a professional asshole!

Here we have two assholes, George and "Kona" in a dispute about how long and how frequent to pucker said asshole.   The vast amount of ignorance demonstrated by these two is frightening or should be to those who they are advising.

true159 wrote on Feb 11^th, 2004 at 9:34pm:


True,

According to Doug Williams' book, you should gradually and subtley tighten (never more than half tension), then relax your anal sphincter muscle over a period of 7 to 9 seconds (immediately following a control question).  In other words, slowly and gently tighten up to no more than 5 seconds, then slowly and gently relax til you reach 9 seconds.  After that, totally relax and  return to your normal breathing pattern.  Your cardio rise should peak at about 4 to 5 seconds.  Your breathing pattern should also show the required reaction during this time period.   

This is tougher than it sounds.  It takes some practice to manipulate the breathing and the "squeeze" with the proper timing.  It's also tough to relax between the "reaction" (lasting approx 10 sec) and the next question (which comes approx every 25 sec).  The key is to execute the manipulations subtley, and don't overreact with your breathing or anal sphincter squeeze.   

I practiced my reactions to tape recorded questions and a stopwatch for approx 2 days before my polygraph, and I had no problems passing the exam.   

Good luck.

Kona   
   

In The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, we mean to pucker and hold. Puckering and relaxing several times during an 8-20 second interval might well be effective too, but research is lacking.

do you pucker several times for 8-20 sec or pucker ans hold?

Scared,

Constriction of the anal sphincter muscle is achieved by "sucking it in."

Pressing one's toe(s) to the floor (with or without a tack or other pain-inducing mechanism) is not an advisable countermeasure. Some polygraph chairs are equipped with strain gauges under the legs of the chair, or a sensor pad on the seat, that may record pressure changes associated with such a countermeasure.

Finally, and most importantly, neither witnesses nor suspects in criminal investigations are required to submit to a polygraph interrogation. As used by police, a polygraph "test" is often little more than a pretext for getting a suspect to agree to submit to an interrogation without a lawyer present. That you would even be asked to submit to a polygraph interrogation suggests that your testimony is doubted.

I think it would be prudent to refuse the polygraph and seek legal counsel.

Rug burn!!!  George, you must print a new edition right away and incorporate this new technique - this is brilliant!

I have a handful of questions pertaining to countermeasures and other....the "Anal Pucker"....is that pushing out or sucking it in? Also the tack in the shoe....will a burn or a cut on the big toe, work instead? I have a rug burn on my big toe, that's starting to scab and turn into a sore. If i press down on it causing pain, will that work in place of the tack in the shoe? Because biting my tongue provides no pain at all, unless i really clamp down on it and i don't wanna cause bleeding. So that's something i don't wanna do....my last question is, in a criminal investigation, as a witness are you required to take a polygraph and what happens if you fail and the other witnesses that you indicate saw that same thing you did....but say they didn't....what if they pass?