Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE

[xenonman]

I do not know him, he is not my friend, and is not there to help me; he is there to earn a nice day of GS-14 pay which he will get no matter how my day goes.

So if a polygrapher at CBP is GS-14, then are polygraphers at Langley in the GS-16 range?

In my experience, Agency pay tends to start at TWO FULL "GS" GRADES above work at more "open" federal agencies, for individuals with similar levels of education and performing similar types of work :-?.

[Franki41]

Hello everyone, I'm just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...

[George W. Maschke]

Hello everyone, I'm just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...

There is no meaningful appeal process for those who fail the CBP polygraph. However, you can and should write a reply to the person who sent the rejection letter contesting the polygrapher's accusation of deception (assuming that is, that you were truthful and were falsely accused). This letter should be added to your file and will document the fact that you disputed the outcome of the polygraph.

With respect to reapplying with CBP, I don't know the answer to that. If you can find out, could you post the answer here? I don't know whether CBP will in practice hire anyone who in the past has failed a CBP pre-employment polygraph "test."

[xenonman]

Hello everyone, I'm just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...

Frankly, I'm surprised that they would even provide the fact of an "unsatisfactory" polygraph as the specific reason for not hiring you.   Many agencies simply don't/won't provide an applicant that level of detail about the reasons behind their decision.  :-/

[Mrs.a]

Is there any active class action lawsuits going on??? My husband just "failed" poly over total BS so we're doing everything the DQ letter says we "may" do such as FOIA and re-apply and all that but, it stuns me how his description of his experience is identical to so many of the failed poly posts here, it's like Vets are being targeted and it's a shame.

[Evan S]

Try contacting Senator Jeff Flake (R-AZ); he has expressed concern over the pre-employment polygraph for the CBP, and the unusually high number of failures for vets.

https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact-jeff

[xenonman]

Is there any active class action lawsuits going on??? My husband just "failed" poly over total BS so we're doing everything the DQ letter says we "may" do such as FOIA and re-apply and all that but, it stuns me how his description of his experience is identical to so many of the failed poly posts here, it's like Vets are being targeted and it's a shame.

Was he also at CBP ? :-/

[xenonman]

Is there anything I can do about this?

Let's see:  you blamed your failure on:

the examiner because he's bald, has killer eyes, and was trying to establish rapport with you.
You blamed the big bad uncomfortable chair.
You blamed your stinky smelly feet.
You blamed the blood pressure cuff.

Yeah, you can stop whining like a sniveling toad. 

With quick fixes like you in Langley, no wonder we have so many Aldrich Ames's, Ed Howard's, and all the other "upstanding" Agency employees who were able to trade their access to classified information for a little extra "spending cash" !

[xenonman]

Is there anything I can do about this?

Let's see:  you blamed your failure on:

the examiner because he's bald, has killer eyes, and was trying to establish rapport with you.
You blamed the big bad uncomfortable chair.
You blamed your stinky smelly feet.
You blamed the blood pressure cuff.

Yeah, you can stop whining like a sniveling toad. 

With quick fixes like you in Langley, no wonder we have so many Aldrich Ames's, Ed Howard's, and all the other "upstanding" Agency employees who were able to trade their access to classified information for a little extra "spending cash" !

When a polygraph examination pretest interview works as planned, you end up believing you must placate a madman.

Words of wisdom, Aunty.

To the best of my knowledge, CBP polygraph operators do not use assumed names. An Internet search for Keith+Kyle+CBP+polygraph turned up this profile on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-r-kyle-2277a894

I've attached his portrait.

u
Thanks for your efforts, George!

Naming names and posting photos is our only hope for embarrassing polygraph operators and exposing the truth about their vile brand of alchemy!

[DJH]

First I am a Border Patrol Supervisor, Civil Servant for 30 years.  Now here is my story.  My son, 22 years old, who is so squeaking clean, raised on a military base, altar boy, CCD teacher, Imperial Beach Junior life guard for 5 years, never in trouble.  Never did drugs.  Not because he is my son but because it is true.  We live in the country so it isn't something he was even tempted to do.  Currently holds #1 plate in 250cc desert racing.  Racing since he was 3 years old.  Poor kid.  Anyway, he passed everything with flying color, interview, everything.  Failed his polygraph.   Everyone in the desert racing community, college, in total shock.  If "T" couldn't pass it, who could?"   During the interview, the interviewer after being strapped into the chair, the interviewer started verbally attacking him after he said he had never did drugs.  Never tempted.  Got into his face and accused him of lying.  The constant "I don't believe you".  "Someone your age did drugs".  "What did you do when they offered it to you".  Almost spitting when he spoke, anger.  Accusatory.  On an on for almost 2 hours, one 15 minute break in the middle.  At the end it was, "you failed, I don't believe you".  My son called me from the parking lot, almost in tears because this guy ripped him a new butt hole.  I have never heard tears in my sons voice not even when he ate shit on the bike.  Here he was so proud to get where he was and so ready for the polygraph only to be ripped to shreds.  In fact, he said when the lady was looking for his paper work for him to sign out.  All he saw on all the papers for the others that were there that day was "fail".  It isn't right and there should be a class action because the guys doing the polygraph are verbal abusers.  If the polygraph cannot be used in court and a pass or fail, it shouldn't be used as the pass or fail in hiring.  It should be used as back up to the background investigation.  Not all or nothing.  I asked how we could fight it.  I was told by my chain, you could ask under a FOIA for the transcript and video but they will not change the decision.  Best for him to reapply and go through the process all over again.  No wonder we cannot recruit.  The polygraph is so subjective based only on an opinion of someone who I swear gets paid by the number of people he/she fails.   Sad but true.

[George W. Maschke]

DJH,

Thank you for sharing this. I very much regret your son's experience. It's an all-too-common one: CBP has a pre-employment polygraph failure rate on the order of 70%, and it's clear that many truthful, well-qualified applicants like your son are being falsely branded as liars and blacklisted from CBP employment.

Your son will want to contest the polygrapher's false accusation of deception in writing. His letter will confirm that he didn't, through silence, tacitly accept the outcome.

I don't agree with you that the polygraph should be used as a backup to the background investigation. It's junk science and it shouldn't be used at all.

You and your son will find our free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, of interest. It exposes the trickery (not science) on which polygraphy depends and documents the sorts of harm that misplaced reliance on this pseudoscience is causing to national security, public safety, and individuals. It also provides tips for mitigating the risk of a false positive outcome.

If you'd like to discuss your son's situation or polygraph matters more generally, please feel free to contact me.

[Dan Mangan]

DJH, speaking as a full member of the American Polygraph Association, I think it's safe to say that your kid was fatally unprepared.

I wish I was at back my old TDY hooch on the strand so we could meet at the Tin Fish, or maybe McP's.

As a father (and grandfather) myself, I'd be happy to give you and your son the full brief on pre-employment polygraph "testing."

[xenonman]

Hello everyone, I'm just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...

I'm sure that you could appeal.  I'm equally certain that it would be wasted time and effort on your part.

[Aunty Agony]

he said when the lady was looking for his paper work for him to sign out.  All he saw on all the papers for the others that were there that day was "fail".

Obviously the CBP had reached its hiring quota for the period and was rejecting all further applicants for its own administrative convenience.

The Constitution of the United States of America does not protect its citizens against this particular form of abuse, although obviously it should. A new Bill of Rights would require ratification by 2/3 of the states but maybe it's time to start thinking about it.

[xenonman]

The polygrapher I dealt with at the CIA had a similar approach.  He kept asking me if I was "serious" about wanting to work there.
Next, an individual identifying himself as a supervisory polygrapher "assured" me that many applicants turn out not to be "serious" about wanting to be employed there, and that there was nothing shameful if that was also the case with me.