My Horror Story

[pailryder]

Twoblock

The American Polygraph Association is the largest of several voluntary associations that persons with an interest in polygraph can pay and join.  They are not much into the house cleaning business.  I agree that people should do more that just state their case here.  In some states there are state associations and in some states licening and regulatory boards that review complaints.  Not everyone is willing to make waves.  

You are right, sorry about the cheap shot.  I envy your summer plans.

[Twoblock]

palerider

Apology accepted.

Your posts have always exhibited a lot of class and I think we all have a great deal of respect for you because of it. That's why I was somewhat supprised at your snip and didn't offer a comment. Some times I clear leather too quickly then think "boy I was a fast ass". I think it's natural for one to defend his chosen profession. I do mine even though it's rampant with crooks and I expose them every time I discover them. At times with some pretty good risk. However, as you can see, I'm the one who is still standing.

I believe NoLonger's polygrapher should lose his license for the way he treated her and be retrained in order to retrieve it.  As you say, not very many want to make waves.

[NoLongerBelieve]

I will have to admit I am afraid to make waves. If one accusation of drug use in a pre-employment exam can completely ruin my chances of federal employment, FOREVER, I am extremely reluctant to go after the polygrapher himself. After all, it is my word, against his, and he has the backing of a government organization with a lot of money and good lawyers. I am just a struggling student straight out of grad school trying to find a job, who can't afford to pay the $300.00 an hour for a lawyer who specializes in this ;[

What I will be doing however, is taking a drug test at my own expense and sending it in with my letter to the FBI contesting my results. I will also be sending those results to several congressmen along with a letter explaining what happened to me. I am sure the FBI will "loose" the results proving I'm not a current drug user, or just say it doesn't matter as their policy indicates I could not have used in the past 5-10 years (depending on the drug) but hopefully any reasonable person conducting a background check would see my results and realize that someone who was "guilty" would not have bothered. Or one can hope.

I am still really upset about it, and haven't even been able to muster up the willpower to start applying to private sector jobs. I just feel beat down by this, and destroyed that I probably couldn't even get a clerks position now with the VA, or some other branch which doesn't deal with national security concerns.

It's also really warped my sense of the US government, big time.   I'm also embarrassed, as many of my peers and supervisors know that I was up for a few federal jobs, and now I have to explain to them what happened, and I'm sure more than a few of them will sit back and wonder if I'm telling the truth, because the story is just so unbelievable.

[Twoblock]

NoLongerBelieves

If my employment possibilities with the government was squashed, I would grab my boot straps and lift myself up to the kevel where I would have a straight swing to the nose. However, one thing that you must put first and foremost. Do not let this diminish one iota your continuing education. If you do, the idiot wins again.

I am glad you will be writing your U.S. Senators and Representative. In those letters list every detail of your poly experience and DEMAND a congressional investigation into the FBI, for that matter the whole government, polygraph procedure. Be sure to name your polygrapher in all correspondence even to the FBI with a copy to your HR Rep. Of coarse they all will deny it (after all arn't they a covert organization illegally gathering info on innocent U.S. citizery?) but, I'll bet there is a record somewhere of the total poly exam. Lean heavily on the physical abuse in all letters. I am still upset about that.

There is a Campus Poster Initiative thread on this site. If you need help, PM George and he'll tell you how to implement it.

I am real sorry for your experience and wish you all possible success in all your endeavors.

[pailryder]

NoLonger

What you described does sound like scientology or maybe more like a frat hazing or other trial by fire initiation rite.  Don't judge all government use by one agency's practice.  And as for employment with the FBI, maybe you are better off without it.  Molly Ivans listed that agency as one of the three most overrated things in this country, along with, oh well, I guess you'll have to look that up for yourself.  

[T.M. Cullen]

Nolonger,

Don't forget to take your story to the press.

You will probably get a white wash with your congressman.  Politicians are useless unless they get a ton of letters about an issue, or there is bad press coverage.

TC

[honest]

About 4 years ago, i was accused of a crime.  I'm am currently a police officer.  i was asked by the investigators to take a polygraph.  Ignorance in my friend, I thought that the Poly would free me from suspicion!  Boy was I wrong!

I didn't do any research on the polygraph prior to me taking my test.  I did not know what a CQT was.  My polygrapher accused me of being deceptive on the test.  There was no evidence found, because I didn't commit the crime in question.  For the past four years this poly has haunted me.  I did not lie on the test, and I have been accused for four years even though the only evidence against me is a "failed" polygraph.  

if you guys have any suggestions please help me.  currently another investigation has been launched into this matter by my department.

[nopolycop]

About 4 years ago, i was accused of a crime.  I'm am currently a police officer.  i was asked by the investigators to take a polygraph.  Ignorance in my friend, I thought that the Poly would free me from suspicion!  Boy was I wrong!

I didn't do any research on the polygraph prior to me taking my test.  I did not know what a CQT was.  My polygrapher accused me of being deceptive on the test.  There was no evidence found, because I didn't commit the crime in question.  For the past four years this poly has haunted me.  I did not lie on the test, and I have been accused for four years even though the only evidence against me is a "failed" polygraph.  

if you guys have any suggestions please help me.  currently another investigation has been launched into this matter by my department.

First off, if you are the subject of a criminal investigation by your police department, surely you have collective bargaining rights which require the department to show you the evidence against you.  YOu also should have legal representation.

After you gain this material, the file a legal claim against your city/county for malicious prosecution.  Nothing will end a witch hunting investigation faster than having to answer to a tort claim.

In the meantime, do you research, and when  you understand the polygraph process, hire your own polygrapher to examine you, and then at some opportune time, spring the passed polygraph on them.

Don't take any crap from them.  

[George W. Maschke]

About 4 years ago, i was accused of a crime.  I'm am currently a police officer.  i was asked by the investigators to take a polygraph.  Ignorance in my friend, I thought that the Poly would free me from suspicion!  Boy was I wrong!

I didn't do any research on the polygraph prior to me taking my test.  I did not know what a CQT was.  My polygrapher accused me of being deceptive on the test.  There was no evidence found, because I didn't commit the crime in question.  For the past four years this poly has haunted me.  I did not lie on the test, and I have been accused for four years even though the only evidence against me is a "failed" polygraph.  

if you guys have any suggestions please help me.  currently another investigation has been launched into this matter by my department.

I would strongly second nopolycop's recommendation that you obtain legal representation. But I do not think that taking a polygraph to "prove your innocence" is a good idea. By doing so, you'd be taking the position that polygraph results really do have probative value. And the investigators' response might be, "Okay, well come sit down for a re-test with our polygrapher."

I think the better approach is to document to all concerned the fact that polygraph "testing" has no scientific basis, and that the results are not evidence of guilt or innocence. The following articles may be helpful for this purpose:

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-028.shtml

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-053.shtml

In addition, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector provides a thorough debunking of polygraphy:

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf

[T.M. Cullen]

Honest,

Don't fret.  Pardon the sarcasm, but one of our board polygraphers will be along shortly to advise you.  You see, the job of the polygrapher is to help you get through the process.  The test is 86% accurate, but, as one polygrapher has posted here, there are hundreds of uncontrollable factors.  So it is hard to explain why you failed the test yet told the truth.

One other possibility is that you are lying.  Which is to say, you did not tell the truth, and you are just coming here to join the "pity party" with the other few malcontents.

Trust the polygraphers,  false positives do happen but they are very rare.  Maybe you should go back to your department polygrapher, only this time, really get things off your chest.  You'd be surprised at how helpful they can be.  

Just kidding.  Take GM and nopolycop's advise above.

Now you know first hand what a crock of shit the polygraph is.

TC

[Magnus]

I am a law enforcement officer.  Last year I was accused of "misleading" the Internal Affairs Officer on a complaint submitted by a former neighbor.  The neighbor was upset I won a judgment against her in small claims.   I was asked to take a polygraph.  I agreed as long as I received something in writing clearing me of the charge(s) once I passed the test.  My division chief called me on a Tuesday and told me the exam had been set up for Wednesday.  I asked:  "What are the issues? and "What about the memo clearing me of the matter?"  The response:  "I don't know or care to know what the issues are.   I don't know anything about any memo."  Well, my answer was thanks, but no thanks.

Once I found out what the specific issues were, through my attorney we hired a polygraph examiner that works throughout the state under contract with county and state LE agencies.  The examiner reviewed the facts of the case and developed the questions.  I took the exam and passed.  During an oral reply to the charges, we submitted the results.  The agency declined to accept the results.  We verified that the test I was given was the same type provided by the agency examiner.  

We elevated the matter to a formal administrative hearing.  The administrative officer accepted the results w/o question.

I'm now waiting for the results of the hearing, but I'm confused why the agency promotes polygraph as an investigative tool, yet dismisses the results when it doesn't go their way.

[T.M. Cullen]

I'm now waiting for the results of the hearing, but I'm confused why the agency promotes polygraph as an investigative tool, yet dismisses the results when it doesn't go their way.

Because, contrary to popular belief, the polygraph is not really a test, it is an interview/interrogation disguised as a test.  Of course, your agency is going to trust IT'S interrogators more than ones you hire.  And it is an interrogation they can conduct without those pesky defense attorneys present.  

Polygraphs results are like statistics.  You can use them to support whatever position you want to posit.  Try doing that with DNA results!

They won't admit it, but the polygraph is very subjective.

[NoLongerBelieve]

Just as an update...

I still have not received anything formal saying I "failed" the poly. In the meantime I had a drug screen done at my own expense, so that I could send it in with my response to the fail letter. Of course, I do not have the fail letter. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[argog]

I wouldn't do anything yet. If you haven't received a rejection letter yet you may still get hired. don't worry about it until there is something to worry about. You usually have the option of a second polygraph anyway and I assume at this point you have read up and have no worries about failing a second one.

[Jag]

Found this cite actually researching tourettes syndrome's affect on the accuracy of a polygraph -- I know, seems like a ridiculous issue.

At any rate, I wanted to remind you there is a reason why the military courts will not allow polygraphs in evidence.   I have been both a military prosecutor and defense counsel, and the only reason polygraphs are used is to get the subject to give a "post-polygraph" interview where they usually admit to the crime.  As defense counsel, I was frustrated that I could not introduce evidence of the failed polygraph as evidence of a false confession -- the answer to the question as to why an innocent man would confess to a crime he did not commit -- because nobody would believe him anyway and the Speical Agent told him that everyone would go easier on him if he confessed.

Oh well, that is a different issue than the employment polys.  I have had individuals pass the polygraph, and then admit to the crime later (after finding DNA at the scene), and had folks fail the poly who had ROCK SOLID alibis.

For me, its all about the interview.

Jag