inconclusive result??

[don]

I took an annual maint. poly. today.  I pass every time. (no need for cms).  Anyway 6 months ago i was diagnosed with obsessive anxiety disorder.  I was given meds. and am fine now. However today my test came up as inconclusive. the examiner thinks becouse of the meds. (i was also on cold medication but she said that wouldn't make a difference) How is inconclusive persieved, and what could the reprecussions be, if any by a PO.? I told the absolute truth but the test showed no prominate reaction i guess. If i take the test with out the meds. my anxiety and bloodpressure go through the roof and could give a false reading; as almost happend before I started taking them.  I guess i'm also wondering how do po's deal with this sort of result.

[don]

  my wife suggests i mention, the examiner was not able to get any reading as a result of my medication.  So whats troubling, is that she (examiner) said I need to go back to the dr. and have my medication adjusted, or suspended so i can take a poly.  This med. is for anxiety and bloodpressure, and is finally dosed perfect. Do they really have the authority to dictate your medical requirements, to satisfy a machine that is not 100% anyway?  What can I do to protect myself and still comply?

[Pheonix97330]

Come on guys, im shocked that no one has replied to this guys qeustion.

I dont think it was anything to do with drugs. From what i have read, inconclusive results are percieved as the polygraphers fault, due to improper preperation of the subject by the polygrapher. ( at least in the polygraphing community)  The reason they blamed it on the drugs is that fact that it is an easy excuse/ out for the polygrapher. I also assume that you have to take another one, to clear up the problems by the first one.

Do you have to pay for each polygraph? If so, by failing you, or giving you an inconclusive, you gottta come back in, and pay for it again! Easy money for a polygrapher. You are forced to take the test, and they can keep you coming back. Instead of waiting another 6 months to get thier fee, they get it again, almost immediatly.

Any thoughts on this?

[retcopper]

Phoenix:

A little knowledge is dangerous.  Your guess about inconclusive results is wrong.  Inconclusives are when physiological reactions are not strong enough to render a call of deception or truth. Please back up your statement, "to blame it ondrugs is an easy out for the polygraher".  

[Twoblock]

retcopper

"A little knowledge dangerous"? Then you must be a very dangerous person.

Why should he back up his statement to you? You never back up any of your wild statements.

A doctor friend of mine has told me that all psychotherapy medications causes physiological reactions. That's why they are prescribed. I have posted this before.

Stop being an ARMCHAIR doctor.

[retcopper]

Twoblock:

I backed up my comment  regarding inconclusives but  I'll rephrase it  just for you, AN INCONCLUSIVE IS ARRIVED AT WHEN THE CHART IS NOT INDICATIVE OF DECEPTION OR TRUTH, NOT BECSUE THE EXAMINER MADE AN ERROR AS PHOENIX ASSERTED.

I have a question for you.  How many armchair lawyers and polygraphers in here?  This is why polygrah examiners don't want to debate the merits of polygraphy with you because your minds are already made up.  

[Twoblock]

retcopper

Thank you for a rational reply.

I agree with your explanation of inconclusive. However, I disagree that the polygrapher didn't make an error. His error was in testing a subject that was under the influence of psychotherapy meds. Would you test a subject in this condition? There has been polygraphers on here that stated they would never do this because these kinds of meds would nulify the test. My interviews with doctors, in this field, said such a test would be silly.

If you notice my pass posts, I never debate polygraph techincal issues because I don't know enough to debate but, I will debate the issue of the effect of psychotherapy medications on detection of deception.

I am an armchair lawyer. I have handled 4 cases pro se now without a loss. How many lawyers do you know with that percentage. I may be about to lose my first though. It concerns access road on federal land. I'll let you know the outcome, of the appeal process, in a couple of years.

[detector1012000]

The proper term is Psycotrophic Drugs.  Dependant upon the drug, how long it has been used, and the affect of the drug on the individual determines if use of that particular drug would effect the outcome of a polygraph.  There are numerous studies on this which you can access I am sure.  Broad sweeping statements are generally incorrect.  

[Drew Richardson]

Detector1012000,

You write:

The proper term is Psycotrophic Drugs.  Dependant upon the drug, how long it has been used, and the affect of the drug on the individual determines if use of that particular drug would effect the outcome of a polygraph.  There are numerous studies on this which you can access I am sure.  Broad sweeping statements are generally incorrect.

.

Although psychotropic drugs can have a variety of effects (usually secondary to the central nervous effects for which they are known) on the autonomic nervous system, there are drugs that would theoretically be of more concern in a polygraph situation, i.e., those that have a more pure autonomic influence.  An example would be the antimuscurinic drug scopolamine that would likely completely shut down the electrodermal (sweating) channel.  Although this drug can be readily obtained (present in anti-motion medications) and although the electrodermal channel is heavily weighted in the minds and scoring algorithms of most polygraphers, its (the drug's) effect, if and when used in isolation (not in conjunction with other countermeasures), would likely be less than totally effective because it would affect relevant and control question responses alike, theoretically making an inconclusive (not a non-deceptive) result more likely. And although there are several drug/polygraph studies in the literature (and if memory serves correctly an early one suggesting a negative effect for meprobamate on polygraph accuracy) the same considerations (making pharmacological countermeasures ineffective in isolation) would likely come into play for most if not all chosen drugs.

And again although the same considerations hold true for any unintended autonomic effects stemming from properly prescribed medications, and although one in theory might delay a polygraph examination if such effects were suspected or known to likely be in play, before one gets lost in the machinations of such considerations, that same one should take time to take a reality test and realize that these tests have precious little to no diagnostic validity in the absence of any drug effects.

[polyfool]

Twoblock:

I backed up my comment  regarding inconclusives but  I'll rephrase it  just for you, AN INCONCLUSIVE IS ARRIVED AT WHEN THE CHART IS NOT INDICATIVE OF DECEPTION OR TRUTH, NOT BECSUE THE EXAMINER MADE AN ERROR AS PHOENIX ASSERTED.

I have a question for you.  How many armchair lawyers and polygraphers in here?  This is why polygrah examiners don't want to debate the merits of polygraphy with you because your minds are already made up.  

retcopper,

No one is debating that an inconclusive result is determined when the examiner cannot score the charts to form an opinion as to  DI or NDI.  But, how are such results EXPLAINED by the polygraph community?  

[detector1012000]

Drew Richardson

Again, it would be the physician, not an examiner, that would determine if the prescribed drug on the selected individual would cause any trouble with polygraph examinations.  Polygraph examiners are not physicians and should consult with a physician prior to making a decision to test or not test for pharmalogical reasons.  You last statement in the text is your true statement.

"these tests have precious little to no diagnostic validity in the absence of any drug effects. "

[retcopper]

Twoblock:

Mea culpa.  If you are an attorney,"archair lawyer" was not directed to you. And, I aree with you.  I woud not  give a test to someone who was taking anxiety medicine.

Good luck in you law practice.

[retcopper]

Polyfool:

There is a myriad of reasons behind an inconclusive test, one of which might be the fault of the examiner.  In my opininon the poster tried to imply that the only reason was because the examiner was at fault. In any event some reasons might be lack of psychological set, fauulty equipment and or environment, counter measures and the wrong type of test given, and MY biggest reason for calling inconlusives is to give the subject the benefit of the doubt.

[Twoblock]

retcopper

I have stated many times on these boards that I am not an attorney. I only handle cases, pro se, for me and my family.

I am a gold miner and have been for about 30 years. Hence the study of federal mining law. I am 75 years young. Hence the study of federal ADA law. This was brought on when my oldest sister entered a nursing home and a by-polar friend was abused in a mental institution. I have gone against a top mining lawyer and won.

I do not give legal advice. I do tell people to sue when I think they have an actionable case. I do enjoy researching Constitutional Case Law.

As I told you, I am an armchair lawyer. I haven't done too bad of a job from my rocker.

[Twoblock]

retcopper

I forgot to thank you for answering my question and it's good to know that you wouldn't poly a subject that's on mind altering meds. This tells me that you know they have an effect on the results. Too many think they can test around these meds. Also, I don't know of a doctor that would discontinue these meds long enough not to be a factor in the poly results. If this would ever happen to me, I assure you I would have another doctor that same day.