Aren't you being a little dishonest here?

[Fair Chance]

Dear nonombre,

That is what makes this site so unique.  Only in very rare circumstances is anything edited.  The good, the bad, and the ugly are exposed for what they are.  

Let the people read and decide for themselves.

As always, "genius is limited but stupidity is not thus handicapped."  It just depends upon your definition of genius and stupidity.  

Your threads as well as others are always welcomed.

Regards.

[nonombre]

Polyfool, Fair Chance

I appreciate your kind words.  Unfortunately, my wife kept me up late tonight watching a Toby Keith special on CMT, so I will have to defer posting until tomorrow night.

As I have previously stated, I NEVER waste the taxpayer's money by posting from work...

Regards,

Nonombre
  

[Jeffery]

As I have previously stated, I NEVER waste the taxpayer's money by posting from work...

Woah!  Since your entire profession is a waste of taxpayer's money, I'd have no problem with you posting from work.

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

[hwsternfan]

Woah!  Since your entire profession is a waste of taxpayer's money, I'd have no problem with you posting from work.

How does he sleep at nite?

[George W. Maschke]

nonombre,

In your post starting this message thread, you wrote, among other things:

Mr. Mashcke, clearly you are being dishonest in the statement you make on your home page....

I think it has been adequately demonstrated that the statement on the home page is factual. I will allow that the relative lengths of polygraph schools and barber colleges is not the strongest argument against polygraphy. We make the point in order to dispel any misperception amongst the general public that it takes a great deal of training to become a polygraph operator.

Don't you think that based on your dishonest , untrue, and self serving statement, you owe the graduates of DoDPI an apology and a retraction?

As I haven't been dishonest, perhaps you might reconsider who owes whom an apology?

As for DoDPI (and other polygraph school) graduates, I would suggest that it is they who owe an apology to all the truthful persons whose reputations they have besmirched with false accusations of deception.

[Sergeant1107]

Nonombre,

Well, at least this little tangent about barber college gave you a good reason not to respond to this thread: https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=2498.msg17605#msg17605.

You are the best when it comes to answering questions with questions and subtly diverting the flow of a discussion.  My hat is off to you!  

[polyrized]

I very much appreciate nonombre's participation on these message boards.  I wish more polygraphers and pro-polygraph folks would also participate.  I'm learning a great deal from his/her comments especially regarding the mindset of those involved in this type of work.

It seems the quest for the truth trumps all other considerations.

[Drew Richardson]

Polyrized,

You write:

I very much appreciate nonombre's participation on these message boards.  I wish more polygraphers and pro-polygraph folks would also participate.  I'm learning a great deal from his/her comments especially regarding the mindset of those involved in this type of work.

It seems the quest for the truth trumps all other considerations.

You raise an important point, but you don't follow through with the obvious following consideration:  The quest for truth in and of itself is not a bad thing--in fact it is a good thing.  What you don't mention is that all is for naught and the costs you allude to are incurred with no compensating benefit if that quest is one which can be categorized apriori as foolish and destined for routine failure, e.g., a search for the truth utilizing a polygraph examination in one of the various formats and applications for which it is completely lacking in validity as a diagnostic instrument.

[nonombre]

Quote:

How does he sleep at nite?

Doc deny everything.  Never admit...stay strong and read the Lie behind the lie detector!

Actually its attributable to the fact that the lie detector doesn't detect shyte!

Just never ADMIT to anything DURING the exam that you did not admit to in the pre screening or on your application.  If you don't ADMIT they can still fail you but on what basis?  Then they are opening themselves up to lawsuits.  The problem is MOST people ADMIT to things during the exam when they are accused of lying or being deceptive.  

Just hope you didn't admit to anything to the exam or admit to anything you didn't state on your application/pre poly questionaire. If you did you are done...if not...its all based on the poly...not you.

They just use the polygraph to eliminate who they don't want.  It doesn't detect shyte!

The key to beating a polygraph "test" is 1) to make no damaging admissions DENY DENY DENY! and 2) to subtly augment one's physiological responses to the "control" questions.

tell them nothing.  Deny everything.  But be sure your applications match up to prior police applications.

don't admit ANYTHING duringthe exam. If they accuse you of lying DENY IT.  Even if they keep accusing you of lying DENY IT!  Stick to your guns!

Just deny everything...don't admit anything during the exam...you will be fine...DENY DENY DENY

Just never ADMIT to the examiner.  If they fail you they fail you...just don't admit during the exam.  All the exam is anyway is an EXCUSE for them to unload anyone they really don't like and have no reason to disqualify them...so they use the polyscam.

When in doubt...DENY DENY DENY.  

NEVER ADMIT!
Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies

Do not admit to anything you did not state in that pre interview during the actual poly exam.  

If they acuse you of lying during the exam...deny it....do not let them force you into ADMITTING anything!

Where do I learn about mental countermeasures?

Never admit to anything and never sign anything the poly guy gives to you during the exam.  Thats a sure cause for failure.

hwsternfan,

You ask how (as a polygraph examiner) I "sleep at night."  Well, after doing a little research into what you seem to be about (After reading your posts, I believe you have some real "issues.")  Please allow me to fill you and the others here in on a little of what I am about.  

I have many years experience as a law enforcement officer. Like most, I started in patrol, spent some time in the evidence locker (Couldn't maintain my tan in a 12' X 12' room), did backgrounds for awhile, and finally ended up in Criminal Investigations.  It was in Investigations that I started watching the agency's polygraph examiners at work.

These guys amazed me.  Maybe it was mostly interrogation ability, but they seemed able to accomplish during a four-hour polygraph examination, what the investigative unit could not accomplish in a hard worked investigation over several months.

Solve the case, recover the evidence, and assemble a prosecutable case where all had been lost prior to their involvement.  And I watch them do it over and over.

I admit.  I was impressed.

Keep in mind, we are not some small "Podunk" department.  As detectives, we went to all the schools, we were good, and we knew what we were doing.

But "damn" these polygraph guys were VERY good. AND I wanted to be just like them.

So, I completed by degree and I went to polygraph school.  The school was run by professionals who cared what they were doing and cared about producing the best product.

Upon graduation, I was assigned to a pretty good-sized polygraph unit (for a non-federal agency) and went to work.  I had two responsibilities.  Criminal Specific Issue testing and Pre-employment screening of police candidates.

I have to admit, I have enjoyed criminal testing the best, for now I am one of the guys who ride in on the white horse and solve that "unsolvable" case.  A real "high", I must admit.  

I also do pre-employment screening.  I will say that by the nature of the beast, screening is not as rewarding as criminal testing.  One reason being, as I have posted now several times, I have a real concern about false positives.  I do not want to deny a qualified candidate a shot at being a police officer.

So, in my small way, I try to do what I can for the people I test.  If I get a DI or Inc call, I talk with the person.  I try to work out whatever might be troubling them, and in a good number of the cases, what is causing them a problem is not significant enough to keep them from the job.  They are ultimately successful in passing the exam and I have since seen several of them in uniform.

In other cases, their "problem" is indeed disqualifying and they don't get the job.  I don't revel in this, but I record the information and the job goes to a better-qualified candidate.

The bottom line is (at least in my case) I have very, very few police candidates that simply "fail" the polygraph examination with no additional reasons for their problems.  I take the extra time.  I do everything I can to help.  I have worked late many nights, working with a candidate who has walked into the exam room with "issues."

Bottom line is I sleep pretty well at night.  I have put a lot of real bad guys into prison, I have kept some definate losers from carrying a badge, and I have helped a whole lot of people realize their law enforcement dreams.  

Yes, I Sleep quite well indeed, thank you.

Now, not to go on the attack, but since you have come at me several times since I have started posting on this site, I would like to make one small statement about your posts I have denoted above....

Damn!  exactly what are you afraid of?  I mean, the bulk of your posts consist of "don't confess, don't confess, don't confess!

Don't confess to what?  Now don't get me wrong here, but after many years as a criminal investigator, when I run into an attitude like yours, it is generally not for any reason at all.  I believe there is a story there and I am pretty sure it is not "I failed for no reason."

hwsternfan, I feel in your case there is "more to the story."  Wanna share?

Nonombre

[Jeffery]

Nice post nonombre.

For the record -- most cops I've hung around are the ones that stick to the "Deny Deny Deny" mantra more than any other.  And this is in conversation not relating to polygraphics; rather to their involvement with internal affairs (and these are good cops truly with "nothing to hide").

I think if somebody were every the subject of an investigation, little can be gains by cooperating.  One is better off with "dney deny deny" or simply keeping their mouths shut.

[gelb disliker]

"I have to admit, I have enjoyed criminal testing the best, for now I am one of the guys who ride in on the white horse and solve that "unsolvable" case.  A real "high", I must admit"

NoNombre,,,,you should get off of your hgh horse and realize that the polygraph is in fact, HORSESHIT.

[nonombre]

NoNombre,,,,you should get off of your hgh horse and realize that the polygraph is in fact, HORSESHIT.

Gelb Disliker,

Please allow me to disagree.  Like most of the other "pro" polygraph posters on this site, I have seen polygraph solve many, many cases when EVERY other investigative technique has failed.  So, I will continue to use polygraph in my department's investigations when appropriate.  Contraversial?  Yes.  Accurate?  Not always.  Effective?  Definately.

Regards,

Nonombre

[EosJupiter]

I have seen polygraph solve many, many cases when EVERY other investigative technique has failed.  So, I will continue to use polygraph in my department's investigations when appropriate.  Contraversial?  Yes.  Accurate?  Not always.  Effective?  Definately.

Nonombre and to DarkCorba as well, I applaud the fact that your LEO's. As a matter of fact every criminal you guys bag is worth the salaries you make.  I have no problem with you using a polygraph on a dumb criminal (redundant I know), Myself and others on this board abhore the use of the Polygraph for employment screening. I am only speaking for myself, but I am sure others will chime in. But you both seem to miss the point of the antipolygraph movement, Until you have a tool that is 100% effective, reliable, and truthful, then the collateral damage to an innocent person being branded a liar or cheat, or criminal is wrong. Remember this web site only exists because your brethern examiners screwed over the wrong person.  I know your not feds, but they are the majority of the complaints,  how they administer the test and use them as a way to circumvent fair hiring and EEO laws.
Doesn't it bother you that you could cause grevious harm to someone with a polygraph test that shows deception and the person is 100% telling the truth.
Consciences I doubt  you have.  

[EosJupiter]

If your feelings are hurt DarkCobra, for that I do apologize. BUt I make no apologies for believing that you support and endorse a device that is completely invalid and worthless. You have my respect as a LEO, and its a job I wouldn't do, and it takes a special individual to be a cop, I state again that everytime you nail a criminal, your doing all of us a great service. Have you ever DI'd a person and later found out it was wrong. And what did you do to make amends. If you sat back and just said oh-well, collateral damage, then the whole premise you support and the machine that did the damage is wrong.  If you corrected the situation then your a person of worth and honor. Qualities I can respect. You do say that you work at being more professional by reading and participating on this  board.
It just is amazing that you write and speak well and are most likely well educated. And still support a Kluge technology.

[Drew Richardson]

Darkcobra,

You write in part:

I have made mistakes with polygraph, I am human.  The remedy is to admit to the mistake and make amends....

While your sense of humility regarding your mistakes is quite commendable, I suspect the nature of those mistakes is different than you suggest or even believe.  I would strongly suggest that your mistakes are largely not a reflection of your isolated actions on the day of a wrong answer, but that you use invalid techniques on a daily basis.