How far back does a polygraph go? say for instance I took my first maintenance.. Would it be focused on my behavior since my last conviction? since my last polygraph? since I started treatment? In the past year? past six months?
Also If I were to fail that maintenance(probably will I used porn and drugs a few times.. I know dumb) will the next maintenance go back since that last failed test or double jeopardize me and keep going back from the start of treatment or from the start of my probation?
I would think it would be periodically.. can someone please help me out with any experience they have with it? also I live in MN dunno if all procedures are different..
1st, STOP DOING DUMB SHIT!!!!!
2nd, If you were in texas, you'd be taking that same test till you passed; so the idea that it sounds like they let it slide for six months to a year, you're lucky.
3rd, if the treatment provider and PO has let go of the last test, this test will likely cover the period of time from your last test to time of test.
4th, if your PO or treatment provider wanted to be ball busters, they could make you take a monitoring test, coving sexual re-offense. If they do this, theoretically they can go back to start of probation or parole to time of test.
Lastly, and with all due respect; STOP DOING STUPID SHIT AND WORK YOUR DAMN PROGRAM.
Hope this helped
Thanks for advice.. have you experience with any of the test? also are you in texas?
I found this at: http://www.tasanet.com/knowledgeCenterDetails.aspx?docTypeID=1&docCatID=50&docID=262
It describes tests used for sex offenders: The two primary types of examinations used in PCSOT are the sexual history polygraph examination (SHPE) and the maintenance polygraph. The maintenance examination is used to assess the offender's compliance with treatment and supervision over a limited period of time (usually about 6 months).
it sucks when you screw up and learn your lesson only to be punished in the long run... knowing that I actually still have a chance gives me incentive, if they were to keep going back to the time when I violated I would never admit it and keep failing and failing until I went to prison, which seems counter productive to me... They don't do monitoring tests here but.. specific issue, history and maintenance.
If anyone has anymore info to add will be appreciated:
any stories of their tests and questions on them..
Tristar,
I think Irish gave you good advice. While one can argue the utility of PCSOT, the utility of treatment is without question. I am disheartened when I see some posters here with the goal of passing the polygraph coupled with a disregard for the treatment required to help them make more sane choices in life.
I am not privy to the consequences which may result if you were to come clean on your bad choices. However, I would think that bringing them up and taking it on the chin would show better progress in treatment than being caught as the result of a stressed polygraph.
He should consider himself lucky he is not in Texas
Tristar, definitely stop doing bad stuff and work your program!! That being said, polygraphs exams are far from perfect and subject to false positives. If you haven't already download the free book on here,"The Lie behind the Lie Detector" and educate yourself. But most important again, just abide by your conditions and work your recovery. Dont give them a reason.
I really appreciate the advice and all but the answers to my question seem avoided, like the rest of the posts on here..
Irish- your answers seem vague and dodging, you keep talking about texas and how bad it is even when I've grabbed data proving polys only goes back to the past 6 months, only!! which makes me very unlucky because texas sounds like a cake walk..
you also avoided my question about being in texas and having any experience at all with the poly.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY KNOW ANY OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ASKED FROM THE BEGGINING? ALSO SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES ALONG WITH THE EXACT QUESTIONS THEY HAVE ASKED YOU..ALSO HOW FAR BACK DID THEY GO?!!
Sorry didn't see that post. I am anything but vague usually. Sorry if that is how I came across. Give me a min
Quote from: MNuzum333 on May 11, 2015, 08:31 PMThanks for advice.. have you experience with any of the test? also are you in texas?
I found this at: http://www.tasanet.com/knowledgeCenterDetails.aspx?docTypeID=1&docCatID=50&docID=262
It describes tests used for sex offenders: The two primary types of examinations used in PCSOT are the sexual history polygraph examination (SHPE) and the maintenance polygraph. The maintenance examination is used to assess the offender's compliance with treatment and supervision over a limited period of time (usually about 6 months).
it sucks when you screw up and learn your lesson only to be punished in the long run... knowing that I actually still have a chance gives me incentive, if they were to keep going back to the time when I violated I would never admit it and keep failing and failing until I went to prison, which seems counter productive to me... They don't do monitoring tests here but.. specific issue, history and maintenance.
If anyone has anymore info to add will be appreciated:
any stories of their tests and questions on them..
I have a great deal of experience in all aspects of PCSOT testing.
Actually, The State of Texas you want to look at JPCOT guidelines or APA guidelines
To keep it simple, in Texas, you are looking at four different types of test.
Instant Offense
Maintenance
Monitoring
Sexual History
All have specific timelines and subject matter.
Time frame of a test can be the start of your potation or since your last test in regard to Maint or Mont tests. Some counties like Tarrant make you take a test twice a year and switch off between Maint and Mont. Other counties do once a year or at officer or therapist discretion if more is needed.
The best thing I can tell ya, be complaint with your conditions. Be active and participate in group. Work your program with the therapist.
As far as polygraph goes, I know where I am so telling you not to play with the examiner is like telling my dog not to eat the pizza when I put the box on the floor in front of him. You're going to try.
Just be ready to face the music if you get caught. Messing with the test will not make you any friends anywhere in the continuum
Not sure if this was more helpful, but if you look at what we are all trying to tell you, it's all helpful in one way or another. Take what you know will be of use to you and consider the rest at least
YES!! it all has been very helpful.. so if I fail this polygraph... the next one will be since that last poly? is that how yours works?
because it's absolutely hopeless for me if they keep going back to start of probation everytime I get a maintenance, cause I will never admit anything and just keep failing them until I get sent...
I know its different everywhere but idk if the APA set standard limitation on time frames or what because like I said before seems a little counter productive and even kind of double jeopardy like...
I've been clean and sober for 4 years not counting 2 relapses and viewed porn a few times as well... I thought my crime was not wrong because she was my girlfriend of 15 and I was 18 so I understand my actions were all fucking soooo dumb, and I plan on not fucking up anymore...
I just want to know about maintenance and if it keeps going back to the last maintenance ie... since your last poly have you____,.. or if its always: since you stared probation have you____,..
In my county we only get history and maintenance..
all I have to do is pass one maintenance and i'm done done
Tristar, how they do it in texas, they will keep covering since the start of your probation to test until you pass one. I don't know how they do it there.
What I usually tell people is, just let it go it can't be all that bad. Take the ass chewing, because that is probably what you will get unless you been re offending; yea, then you're going to prison.
But if all you are holding on to is a few beers and punching the clown to some adult porn, that is just silliness. Moreover, if you keep holding onto it and keep failing tests, your therapist might be able to dismiss you unsuccessfully from treatment; and that is 100 times way more serious than a few beers and punching the clown to Bettie Page (if ya know what I mean)
I suggest you get over it, man up and unburden yourself from the weight you are choosing to carry around so you can start fresh.
Even in texas, unless your PO or provider totally hates you, I haven't seen people revoked for a few beers and some adult porn on the first passed test. The longer you hold it in though, the worse it will be when you finally let it out. Seriously man.
So why aren't you disclosing this to your examiner? is it that you just don't like the guy? I used to get a lot of confessions because the examinee didn't like the guy that was testing them before me
your a polygrapher? if they keep going back to the start of probation then theirs no point to stay good.. i know im not now.. you just gave a sex offender reason to keep reoffending thanks..
if I confess to the polygrapher to pass wont I still get violated? dumping they call it...
Look, I say dump and move on.
It works wonders when you're not carrying all that weight into the testing room, your mind is on nothing then, whereas before it was on something.
Ok, you had a few beers.... Alright, you punched the clown to some adult porn. You want to impress your treatment provider? Dump, come clean, then tell him you feel better after coming clean; that way he knows you been carrying this around (though I bet he already suspects)
The only person you are hurting or fooling right now is you. Dump it, go into the next test, clear it, then never have to deal with that time frame again. Boom, fresh start, clean slate.
Seriously, is carrying this around worth the stress you are clearly putting yourself under? All that stress weighs down the heart. That is a muscle ya know. what happens when you over tax a muscle? The muscle pulls and gets hurt. What do you think happens when that muscle pulls?
See, you been looking at even this string wrong. Today, right now, can be a new start for you.... A fresh start.... A clean slate.
If you don't like the examiners, tell the therapist and then go into that polygraph room fresh and renewed with the satisfaction that you didn't give him the power.
If that is what it takes, because the most important thing, right now, at this moment, is you make that breakthrough. You make the break toward emotional relief. That break belongs to you and whomever you share that with and no one else.
If you don't want to give the examiner the satisfaction, give the dump to someone you do want to allow to have the credit for the break though.
I don't know the particulars of your case, but if its a few beers and some adult porn, I think you'll be ok
the fighting Irish has handily capsulated the gist of PSCOT-style "polygraph science" as it is currently practiced.
Another expression of the same tried-and-true formula goes like this: "The truth shall set you free."
Except that's not always the case.
According to the APA's own stats, the best-case average odds for multiple-issue polygraphs are virtually identical to those of Russian roulette.
My understanding is that Dr. Richardson thinks the actual probabilities for true outcomes in PCSOT exams are far more risky than that.
Sex offenders are a reviled underclass. It's hard to imagine the general public tolerating such a high risk procedure for itself -- one that's mandated, no less -- should the tables be turned
ah but the procedure is being used for DWI offenders already in Texas, so it seems it's too late.
As for me nailing how PCSOT is practiced, you say the sweetest things. lol
Dan, I don't see where he has a lot of choices here. The best option he has is impressing the hell out of his provider and PO.
I have little doubt, what he is withholding is only taking a bad matter and making it worse. It hasn't been working for him, so here is a crazy idea, try something new.
I have had some examinees that the total honesty until it hurts method, got the re-test waived; as such they were able to move on.
I see this as my job. I try to get any information if it's there and help my examinee move on in whatever direction the information takes it. It's not an easy place to be in, but at least I found a way to survive in spite of some examiners efforts.
I help people move on to their next year when I can. At least I don't help people move on to their next inconclusive result.
It seems he can get worse advice from someone who cares a lot less about how he advances in his treatment and program.
My advice is as sound as it gets in his case. He put himself into a bad position and now he simply needs to fess up to it and take his ass chewing; which is what I personally believe will happen and is inevitable.
Lets face it, life is like a shit sandwich, the more bread ya got, the less shit ya have to take, and in the end, we all have to take a bite.
Quote from: MNuzum333 on May 12, 2015, 07:59 PMif I confess to the polygrapher to pass wont I still get violated? dumping they call it...
I believe the only one who can violate you is a judge. I'd also assume that your therapist's recommendation would carry some weight. In my opinion, any dumping should be done with your therapist and let them decide how to handle the others in the containment triad. Is not admitting bad choices from your own volition a sign of treatment progress? You also have the option to get a lawyer's opinion prior to making any admissions.
uhg.. you guys are way to smart.. it's just way to hard to fess up.. especially how good I've been doing..
polygraph is only like 90 percent accurate? I might get lucky if I just lie??
odds of violation?
odds of revocation?
It's way too hard to fess up?
Get over it, then shun those problem behaviors.
As far as getting lucky with the polygraph, that's a poor strategy.
You'll be far better off if you are totally compliant with the terms and conditions of your program.
bro, on one hand you are doing so well and on the other you are handing out some thinking errors. Stop vacillating pick where you want to go with your treatment. Either you want to move forward and take a huge step forward, while impressing the hell out of your therapist with what he or she will see as a huge breakthrough. Or, you will continue your thinking errors until they think that maybe what you need is some "jail therapy," as I have head it called might be the way to force you into compliance. Trust me jail therapy is a real thing man, and a PO will use it.
You may not get revoked, but you will sit in jail and have time to think about it. You might beat the time, but you won't beat the ride.
The longer you take to dump, the better the chances of revocation go up, so smarten the fuck up, with all due respect.
As for 90%..... that is not a realistic number on w multiple issue screening test to be totally honest. I am not saying anything out of turn there, even the studies bear that out.
I will say that your chances for passing significantly improve if you dump. You already have a lot of anxiety about this that will only get worse in the testing room. It's not the test you would have to beat, it would be you. You are your own worst enemy. You want to do well, but when you do go off track, you want to pick and choose what "doing well" is.
If you are not being complaint with your conditions, you are not doing well. If you are not being honest about your behaviors and self reporting as you should be, then you are not complaint with the conditions of your probation and therapy. Therefore, we can conclude, by this reasoning, that you are not doing well or as well as you would hope. But you can change that in less than 15 minutes of dumping; right now you just choose not to.
But think about this, the more you don't self report, the more you make the argument in favor of PCSOT. Because right now you are the poster child of why PCSOT exists.
Sorry, thems the facts.
Now smarten the hell up and do the right thing. Be the man of good character you say you want to be. Because right now you are the other guy. Always the guy looking for a way out, always the guy with an excuse, always the guy failing to step up when stepping up is the hardest thing to do.
Don't be that guy.
Be the Man
If for nothing else, if you hate polygraph as much as most on this forum do, stop being the poster child for why it is needed. All you are doing right now is giving someone like me someone to point to and say "see, this is why PCSOT exists."
Frankly, I shouldn't be helping you at all, your failure is the best advertising in polygraphs favor. I should be thanking you. No instead I am trying to sit here and help you see that you are not doing as well as you thought and that you could be doing better.
DO I need to draw you a map?
Well I'm back.. I ended up violated my conditions because I admitted to using.. jail therapy..
I admitted to using because I had gotten caught red handed but now I am full of regret because I minimized my use and said I was only using a little bit. I was wondering what should I do because my PO sent out a revocation form to the judge for this last violation but the judge gave me one more chance somehow... there are other things I have been hiding to like internet/porn/crossing boarder/using that I have not disclosed, but I know if I do I will go straight to prison.
Can they double jeopardy, reviolate me for this since it happened before my last violation? I do not plan to mess up this time at all, I know I could do it because I have before for nearly 3 years until I slipped.
Well I'm back.. I ended up violated my conditions because I admitted to using.. jail therapy..
I admitted to using because I had gotten caught red handed but now I am full of regret because I minimized my use and said I was only using a little bit. I was wondering what should I do because my PO sent out a revocation form to the judge for this last violation but the judge gave me one more chance somehow... there are other things I have been hiding to like internet/porn/crossing boarder/using that I have not disclosed, but I know if I do now I will go straight to prison.
Can they double jeopardy, re-violate, me for this since it happened before my last violation? I DO NOT plan to mess up this time at all, I know I could do it because I have before for nearly 3 years until I slipped.
do you think the maintenance polygraph will go back to just this last violation?? it would seem irrelevant other wise..
and do you know if they can punish me for violations I had committed before this last violation? I just want a fresh start...
Tristar333,
I am a certified polygraph examiner with a considerable amount of experience dealing with sexual offenders.
If you truly want a fresh start, I suggest the following:
1. Call your PO now -- and I mean RIGHT NOW.
2. Confess all of your violations in detail.
3. Accept the consequences, resolve to change your ways, and move forward.
Yes, it may sound extreme to you, buy only then can you start anew.
Contact me if you want further advice. See the signature block below for details.
Good luck,
Dan Mangan
anyone have an answer to my question besides super Nazi here.. cause I'm not going to admit to something and get f'ed if it doesn't even matter now.. I'm doing good now and that's all that should matter.
how hard is it to just answer a question
Behold the criminal mind...
People, these shitbirds are primarily all about one thing: ENTITLEMENT.
Prove us wrong, Tristar333.
Explain your plight in full. How are you in jeopardy of being victimized? We're all ears.
[cue crickets]
Tristar333,
I don't think anyone can predict what time periods your next polygraph will encompass, it all depends on what issues arise I would think.
Your comment about Dan was out of line; his advice to you was sincere and prudent in that coming clean is one way to show your PO that you are doing things right. You also have the option of discussing this with an attorney prior to making any admissions if you feel coming clean will put you into real jeopardy.
Ya well advice is one thing and help is another.. I only asked a question and he seems to be skirting around it like all the rest of the dipshits who think they know everything and say they are their to help but actually get off to us failing.
this skirting around indicates I may have something figured out that dan here doesn't want to admit.
Its nice too that you Arkhangelsk can judge me and my comments but when a professional senior user.. someone who should not be biased and should be professional refers to us all as 'shitbirds' (which I don't necessarily disagree) you can't even notice it or maybe you believe is acceptable, which is very discouraging.. This is what I have to deal with everyday.. bullies of the system all because I made a bad mistake. but I am not a bad person and you guys making all these precontemplative and blatant assumptions is hurtful especially when all I wanted was some help.
oh yeah! and I do actually appreciate your guys' feedback and comments.. even if you don't give a shit..
TriStar333, let me take a wild guess about your self perception...
You're really a good guy who made one mistake, then got jammed up in the draconian CJ system.
Am I right?
Tristar333,
Enough of the victim posture. I never judged you. My point is that coming clean is the best way to relieve you of this burden and move forward with your life. Note that I also indicated that you have the option to discuss this with a lawyer if you think coming clean may be a legal risk for you.
Regarding the timeframe encompassing your next polygraph, it seems logical that it would cover the time since your previous maintenance polygraph. You may be able to ascertain this by talking to others who have been in the program longer.
Aunty's Law will not allow us to advocate using countermeasures to hide information detrimental to your recovery. Coming clean is like lancing a boil, it allows the infection to ooze and heal.
I wish you good luck in your recovery friend.
8.4.3. Maintenance exam - time of reference. Maintenance Exams should address a time of
reference subsequent to the date of conviction or the previous Maintenance Exam,
generally not exceeding one (1) year and only exceeding two (2) years in rare
circumstances. The time of reference may be described generally as the six (6) month
period preceding the examination; although, there may be reasons for lengthening or
shortening the time of reference for some exams. All investigation targets in a test series
should have a common time of reference.
Doing research I found this guideline from the A.P.A., which required by most states (including my own), polygraphers must follow by, and have went to school accredited by the A.P.A..
My next questions: In what rare circumstances must they go 2+ years?
Also their has got to be a reason why they have a Time Of Reference.. Is it because the polygraph loses its effectiveness?