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Polygraph and CVSA Forums => Polygraph Procedure => Topic started by: stefano on Nov 20, 2012, 09:07 PM

Title: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: stefano on Nov 20, 2012, 09:07 PM
Bill, Pailryder, Quickfix et al,

I have been asked via PM if there are any medical conditions or drugs that would preclude someone from taking a polygraph. In other words, could someone avoid a polygraph requirement based up on these issues?

I don't have any experience or knowledge in this area. Could I solicit your input on behalf of my anonymous inquiry?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: quickfix on Nov 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
Stefano:  certain medical conditions and/or medications may preclude someone from being tested.  Any reputable polygraph program will require the potential examinee to provide a medical clearance signed by the individual's physician which states that the individual is being treated for (whatever the condition is), and in the doctor's opinion, the person is/is not suitable for testing.  Most examiners will also ask what prescription medications the person is taking;  if it is medicine for something like depression/PTSD/anxiety/etc, the examiner may insist that the person provide a doctor's note stating the person can be tested.  Examples of medical conditions which might prevent a poly include recent heart surgery, recent heart attack/stroke.  Examples of medications would include stuff like Prozac/Zanax, but minor stuff like Lipitor, Metformin, Avandia, for things like diabetes, high cholesterol, etc, would not prevent a poly.

Hope this helps.  I speak from the federal side, so I don't know what private sector or local law enforcement examiners require.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Pepé Le Pew on Nov 21, 2012, 08:09 PM
I recently took a poly and at the time was taking medication for irritable bowel syndrome, chronic diarrhea, and bloating, dyspepsia, and excessive gas.  I told them this in the beginning and the polygrapher grinned and licked his chops like he got a big thrill out of this.  During the session, the polygrapher had me so shook up and nervous during the poly that I ended up shitting all over myself and the polygraph chair and equipment.  Then he and his supervisor, who later entered the room, had the nerve of accusing me of doing this on purpose as a countermeasure because I had something to hide!  Needless to say, after a couple trips to the bathroom and a janitorial clean up in the poly room, I was escorted off the premises.  A few weeks later I got the thin rejection letter saying that I did not get in.  I was found not suitable for that agency.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: stefano on Nov 21, 2012, 09:08 PM
Pepe,
That is indeed a creative countermeasure and I assume how you got your name.

Quickfix, well articulated, thanks. This is related to PCSOT. I am sure the medical angle has been tried in order to seek relief from this requirement. But, I don't think it would fly. Does anyone have any anectodotals on this?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: falsepositive on Nov 22, 2012, 09:26 PM
I was tested on very little sleep. I'm almost positive my BP was elevated due to fatigue/work. I dont think a polygraph shaman cares. If you have a pulse you'll do i suppose.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: A-Fib on Apr 17, 2014, 11:42 AM
I have atrial fibrillation and high blood pressure. My erratic heart beat from the A-Fib makes it difficult for even my doctor to get an accurate pulse rate or blood pressure reading. Anybody have any experience with this type of situation and its effect on polygraph readings?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: PanicAttack on Aug 10, 2014, 04:49 PM
My polygraph is up for renewal but I had several operations on my digestive track that half of it's now missing and everything is rearranged. I'm having problems with trying to get reasonable accommodations due to all my surgeries and a recent one on my butt as well. Currently I just started anti-anxiety meds. This situation was the one that broke the camels back so to speak. I was told they couldn't guarantee if the equipment can be located above my waist. I have an ostomy and the tension strap could cause me serious damage. Also my mannerism has changed due to my disability. Does the polygrapher take body language into consideration? Why can't the straps be located above the waistline?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: quickfix on Aug 11, 2014, 03:03 PM
PanicAttack:  what exactly do you mean by "straps" and "above the waistline?  If you are referring to the pneumograph tubes, they are attached to your chest (one upper, and one below, closer to the abdomen). The tension of the tubes are very slight, causing no pain.  Not sure why you would think these components would be attached below the waistline.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: PanicAttack on Aug 15, 2014, 09:36 PM
I"ve been through a poly before but did not have this health issue. I have also viewed photos on the internet. There are tension straps. This can interfere/cause damage to with my surgical site. I got confirmation from the polygraph office they they will not use the lower strap.

I still have an issue with the seat cushion as my last operation was the removal of my anus and sphincter muscles.  I also had my butt checks sewn together so my anatomy is quite different down there! It take a long time for the nerve endings to heal and the development of scar tissue causing a pulling sensation as I sit. It has only been 8 months since my operation. I originally got called in only 2 months after my operation. My doctor was only able to defer the poly until now. I hope the polygrapher can get an ok reading. I don't want to have to come back in after all this!

Also what about body language? They say your digestive system is your second brain...I basically had a lobotomy as my entire colon was removed and my small intestine was reconfigured. My digestive system is now normally noisy because of it.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Dan Mangan on Aug 15, 2014, 10:18 PM
If what you say is true, it seems your suitability for a polygraph exam is highly questionable at best.

Fortunately, there are safeguards.

The American Polygraph Associations has a model policy for examinee suitability, available here: http://www.polygraph.org/files/5_pg_-_model_policy_for_the_evaluation_of_examinee_suitability_for_polygraph_testing.pdf

I suggest that you download this document and print a hard copy. Bring the hard copy with you to your upcoming polygraph exam.

Prior to the examination, insist that the polygrapher review the document -- while paying close attention to section 6.1 --and have him (or her) sign off on your suitability or lack thereof.

Retain the signed document for your own records.

For added protection, I suggest that you video record the entire examination using your own video camera.

If the polygrapher refuses to go along, walk.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Ex Member on Aug 16, 2014, 12:09 PM
Quote...I basically had a lobotomy 

lo·bot·o·my noun

medical : an operation in which part of the brain is cut in order to treat some mental disorders.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Ex Member on Aug 16, 2014, 12:15 PM
Okay, I see what you mean. You believe that your digestive system could so affect your mood to the extent that it would make you a bad subject for a polygraph exam. I feel for you, maybe it's time to just retire and go the Thailand.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Kenny on Nov 04, 2016, 11:56 PM
Hi all

Anyone have experience going for a polygraph at Ministry Of Manpower

Kenny
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Barbara on Jan 25, 2017, 03:05 PM
My son just failed a polygraph ordered by probation.  He is diabetic, has gastroporesis, chronic diarrhea, chronic back pain depression and anxiety. IQ is 83.  He was sure he would pass the test because he was being honest.  Well they said he failed every question.  Is there any evidence that his health issues could effect the results?  He is not currently on meds but does have a medical marijuana card but did not smoke prior to the test.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Ex Member on Jan 26, 2017, 12:07 AM
Barbara,
It is unlikely that your son's polygraph woes are a result of his medical conditions. These kinds of exams are fishing expeditions lacking any specific incident. The reasons he could be reacting to these questions are manifold. Most likely, this will result in heightened scrutiny by the probation department. However, if you sense that he may be in legal jeopardy because of these polygraph results, you should contact his attorney for advice.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Kimbo on Feb 10, 2017, 07:23 PM
I've been browsing and can't find any answers specific to my inquiries, so hopefully someone here can help.

I was just talking to a friend and telling her about a show I watched showing people taking polygraph tests and how crazy it was. It's called Steve Wilkos and it's actually pretty good. Anyway, we began talking about spouses testing each other and she brought up that she didn't think my husband would be able to have me tested due to my medical conditions. I didn't think it would make a difference. So, after going back and forth, I agreed to look into it.

I have Atrial Fibrillation with Rapid Ventricular Response and I also have tonic clonic and absent seizures. I take medications for both conditions. I do also have a degenerative hip condition and Stage 4 endometriosis, but I am not taking regular medications for either of those. But my friend believes it would be the heart and seizure conditions along with the medications for them that would prevent me from having an accurate polygraph.

So, could anyone here clarify this for us? I've got a $10 bet riding on it right now!! (That's right, I have no life! ;D )
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Wandersmann on Feb 11, 2017, 02:51 PM
QuoteSo, could anyone here clarify this for us? I've got a $10 bet riding on it right now!! (That's right, I have no life!

If you take some more time to read through this site you'll discover that the polygraph doesn't work, PERIOD.  It doesn't matter with what medical condition you may suffer or what medications you may take, it doesn't accurately reflect truth or lies.  If you pass consider it good luck.  If you fail, consider it bad luck.  It has been proven to be inaccurate. 
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: xenonman on Feb 12, 2017, 12:25 AM
QuoteHi all

Anyone have experience going for a polygraph at Ministry Of Manpower

Kenny


Of what nation?  Canada?  UK?   :-?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: xenonman on Feb 12, 2017, 12:28 AM
QuoteI was just talking to a friend and telling her about a show I watched showing people taking polygraph tests and how crazy it was. It's called Steve Wilkos and it's actually pretty good. Anyway, we began talking about spouses testing each other and she brought up that she didn't think my husband would be able to have me tested due to my medical conditions. I didn't think it would make a difference. So, after going back and forth, I agreed to look into it.


For what reason do you feel compelled to undergo the agony of being polygraphed?   :-?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: jmf on Apr 13, 2017, 02:21 AM
My bf has benign essential tremors, his meds are mirapex and cogent in.his tremors are in his arms and hands, rarely his lower extremities and usually only if he has been off his meds for extended days. What's the probability on an accurate test.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Apr 13, 2017, 03:43 AM
QuoteMy bf has benign essential tremors, his meds are mirapex and cogent in.his tremors are in his arms and hands, rarely his lower extremities and usually only if he has been off his meds for extended days. What's the probability on an accurate test.

Polygraph "testing" has never been shown to reliably work at better-than-chance levels under field conditions on persons who have no serious medical condition, let alone those who do. In fact, polygraphy has no scientific basis at all (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml).
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: speakup on Jul 04, 2017, 12:03 PM
If the polygraph examiner suggests to the individual requesting the poly that the person taking the poly appears to be suicidal, is considered unethical to proceed with the exam? How accurate are the results if the examiner chooses to proceed with the exam? 
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Jul 05, 2017, 12:38 AM
Quote from: kelziko on Jul 04, 2017, 12:03 PMIf the polygraph examiner suggests to the individual requesting the poly that the person taking the poly appears to be suicidal, is considered unethical to proceed with the exam? How accurate are the results if the examiner chooses to proceed with the exam? 

Polygraph "testing" is inherently unethical: it's a pseudoscientific fraud that depends on the polygraph operator lying to and deceiving the person being "tested." Regarding the accuracy of results, polygraphy has not been proven to  operate at better-than-chance levels under field conditions. See The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for a thorough debunking of polygraphy:

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Jean DeMars on Apr 02, 2018, 08:02 PM
Does a person took a polygraph shortly after having a widow maker heart attack and ended as being inconclusive. Can cardiovascular disease cause problems with polygraph results ?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Dan Mangan on Apr 02, 2018, 08:25 PM
Jean,

I am a polygraph examiner and a full member of the American Polygraph Association.

Now, to answer your question -- "Can cardiovascular disease cause problems with polygraph results?" -- let me be clear.

In my professional opinion, yes.

But that's beside the larger point.

Scientifically speaking, the "test" is a farce. Learn more here...

https://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_lie_detector_test_revisited_a_great_example_of_junk_science

http://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-053.shtml

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/lie-detectors-dont-work-advertised-and-they-never-did-180961956/

I implore you to review the information found in the above links most carefully.

If, after that, you have any questions whatsoever, please call me directly at 603-801-5179 between 9AM and 9PM Eastern Time.

Dan Mangan
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Administrator on May 24, 2018, 01:21 PM
Off-topic replies have been moved to: this topic (https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1527181596/9#9).
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: diann on Mar 16, 2019, 03:52 PM
My brother is suffering from Tardidysconesia and has failed two polygraphs because of his nervous condition.  He is on lifetime probation, has given the Polygrapher the infor, as well as the Probation Dept. the Drs. evaluation.  The PO stated he didn't have to take on, however, has scheduled him in a few weeks.
They have continued to harass him and have subjected him to strict curfews..cannot even walk his dog due to him not passing the Polygraphs.  Have you heard of this condition causing this issue. Thank you :'(
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: John M. on Mar 18, 2019, 10:51 AM
diann, please see Mr. Mangan's last post above.

It's unconscionably abusive to use polygraph "results" by themselves to punish an otherwise innocent individual. 

Subjecting an individual with emotional, psychological or mental disabilities to the stressors associated with repeated polygraph interrogations is irresponsible.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Austin Lee Mahoney on Apr 22, 2019, 10:50 AM
I have severe epilepsy, I average 6-10 seizures a week an take a ton of medications. I have an upcoming poly. I have failed several an I'm told it's due to the epilepsy. Is this true! Should I consult my doctor for a release!
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Apr 22, 2019, 11:13 AM
Austin,

Note that polygraphic lie detection doesn't work, whether or not one has epilepsy. It's a pseudoscience devised primarily by interrogators who had little understanding of the scientific method. Any number of factors unrelated to lying could account for your having failed the polygraph.

Who tells you that your failing the polygraph is due to your epilepsy?

And why are you taking repeated polygraphs? For example, is it associated with your job, or are you perhaps in a mandatory post-conviction polygraph screening program?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Austin Lee Mahoney on Apr 22, 2019, 06:57 PM
I have severe epilepsy, I average 6-10 seizures a week an take a ton of medications. I have an upcoming poly. I have failed several an I'm told it's due to the epilepsy. Is this true! Should I consult my doctor for a release!
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: John M. on Apr 23, 2019, 09:47 AM
I would recommend getting a doctor's note. I seriously doubt that they will honor it though. This happened to me. Even though there are approved regulations that prohibit polygraphing and interrogating individuals with mental, emotional or psychological disabilities, they still do it. No one will - or is able - to hold them accountable. Yet.

#StopPolygraphAbuse
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Daytrading on Oct 24, 2019, 10:01 AM
@ quickfix

Is it possible to quote a policy from the feds or guidelines regarding the ptsd?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: quickfix on Oct 24, 2019, 02:38 PM
DOD Instruction 5210.91, Encl 4, para a(2):   "Interview the examinee, collect basic data, and assess the examinee's suitability and condition to undergo an examination."

Translation:  The polygraph examiner must determine whether or not a person is physically and mentally suitable for testing.  If they determine the person should obtain a doctor's note attesting to the suitability of the person to be tested, they would tell the person and postpone testing until a note is obtained.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: John M. on Oct 24, 2019, 04:59 PM
So now polygraph examiners are psychologists and psychiatrists too?

The part of the regulation he's referring to is part of the "pretest phase", where they collect basic data, inform you of your rights, and lie right to your face.

Actually, DoDI 5210.91 Enclosure 3, 2. l. Directs the DoD Components that are authorized to conduct PCA examinations to write internal "Policies and procedures to assess and determine whether an individual is medically, psychologically, and emotionally fit to undergo an examination".

The regulation also states in Enclosure 4, 2. h. that those Components must have written procedures that "Exempt or postpone examinations when individuals are considered medically, psychologically, or emotionally unfit to undergo an examination".
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: quickfix on Oct 25, 2019, 02:21 PM
So, John M. is now a polygraph expert?  I guess when you fail 5 polygraphs in 3 years and get your access pulled, you become an expert...at failure.
Title: Got inconclusive results 2x but I knoq its true. Qhats happening? I have borderline personality that means emotional extremes to loss abandonment and rejection.
Post by: Linda on Aug 20, 2020, 07:23 PM
I have had a polygraph 2x this week and both are inconclusive. I do have borderline personality which means i have emotional extremes to loss abandonment and rejection.  Is this why its coming back inconclusive.  I am on no meds.  I dont drink or do drugs.  They say they havent had this before.  Are they just a company that takes money with no results?  I went in voluntarily to prove what happened and isnt giving me answers.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Aug 21, 2020, 12:00 AM
QuoteI have had a polygraph 2x this week and both are inconclusive. I do have borderline personality which means i have emotional extremes to loss abandonment and rejection.  Is this why its coming back inconclusive.  I am on no meds.  I dont drink or do drugs.  They say they havent had this before.  Are they just a company that takes money with no results?  I went in voluntarily to prove what happened and isnt giving me answers.

Linda,

The fact that you took the polygraph twice and both times the result was inconclusive does not mean that there is anything wrong with you. The problem is that polygraphy is junk science (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml).

A polygraph "test" cannot prove what did or didn't happen.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: Exempt?? on Apr 17, 2021, 06:52 PM
Would I be eligible to be exempt from the polygraph if my primary care provider states that I have Panic Attack Disorder, GAD, recently recovered from a Pulmonary Embolism, Bipolar Disorder, Major depressive disorder and PTSD?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Apr 17, 2021, 10:37 PM
QuoteWould I be eligible to be exempt from the polygraph if my primary care provider states that I have Panic Attack Disorder, GAD, recently recovered from a Pulmonary Embolism, Bipolar Disorder, Major depressive disorder and PTSD?

No.
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: KK on Jul 12, 2021, 06:05 PM
 I have a spinal cord injury and have been on disability for 14 years due to the damage it has caused to my spinal cord and my central nervous system I have two medical Spinal cord stimulators implanted in my back that connects to my spinal cord. Am I a good candidate for a polygraph test or would my medical condition prevent me from getting accurate results?
Title: Re: Medical Conditions Affecting Polygraph.
Post by: George W. Maschke on Jul 13, 2021, 01:48 AM
QuoteI have a spinal cord injury and have been on disability for 14 years due to the damage it has caused to my spinal cord and my central nervous system I have two medical Spinal cord stimulators implanted in my back that connects to my spinal cord. Am I a good candidate for a polygraph test or would my medical condition prevent me from getting accurate results?

Your spinal cord injury is unlikely to prevent you from getting accurate results, but polygraphy's complete lack of scientific underpinnings (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml) might well.