I waited a while to post this because I needed to let myself cool off. It is amazing to sit back and reflect that I was at one point recruited by the CIA. I was so close to having my dream career. A life of not telling people where I work or what I do, knowing that terrorist probably want me dead, and a life of adventure. The secret recruitment trips to DC were fun at the time, but now all for naught.
After applying online and dropping off my resume to recruiters at career fairs, I was eventually (like many months later...so forget that 45-day CIA rule) granted an interview at the CIA Dulles Discovery Building in Chantilly VA, off Rt.28 and Air & Space Museum Pkwy. It was a standard interview, with standard behavior based questions, no surprises. About a month later, I received a Conditional Offer of Employment (COE) from the CIA in the mail, with my COE letter and all of the paperwork to fill out, including a intrusive medical form and the famous SF-86 security clearance form (the CIA at this time makes applicants fill this form out by hand, there is no electronic version like e-QIP). After returning my COE stuff, I had to wait several more months before I was called in for the famous 3-day processing (medical, psychological, and polygraph exams...plus an office visit). A few months prior to the 3-day, I had a phone security interview with the CIA where I basically went over my entire SF-86 ten-year history again. They were concerned mostly about crime, drugs, and misuse of technology systems. Downloading music, though it is illegal, does not disqualify you. Most people especially college students did this, just pretend you didn't know that it was illegal. Minor drug use in college does not automatically disqualify you if it was minimal and over a year ago, thank God!
The 3-day processing also occurs in the Dulles Discovery Bldg. The CIA will fly you in and put you in a hotel and give you a very generous reimbursement, much more than your trip expenses! My hotel had a complimentary shuttle to this building. I'm sure the hotel staff knows that it is a CIA building, but we just refer to it as "Dulles Discovery" so that neither one of us risks being shot and killed. Lol. There is enough security in this building to thwart any potential terrorist or threat. No cell phones allowed. They give you a key and a small locker in the visitor center to store your cell phone and other electronic devices. No weapons either. I know this is VA, but don't even think to exercise your right to bear arms in this building! You take a little shuttle bus from the visitor center to the next building which is the Applicant Processing Unit. Honestly you could really walk to this building if you aren't lazy. There may be about 20 or so other applicants there for their processing at the same time. Nobody really talks to each other because we are all nervous and don't know what to say. Cameras are all over the ceiling. The Applicant Processing on the 2nd floor waiting area is big, clean, relaxing, has plenty of tables and chairs and cushion chairs and sofas, and magazines to read. Makes you feel at home. They make you sign in with first name only.
Everyone's 3-day schedule may vary, but the appointments are the same, just in a different order maybe. Day 1 consists of a 3-4 hour polygraph and medical test. The medical test draws blood from your arm and you piss in a cup. They test you for drugs, HIV, other STDs, and other stuff. Standard. They also test your vision and hearing. Don't worry; wearing contacts or glasses is ok. They just want to make sure that you aren't deaf or blind, though if you were, I'm sure accommodations could be made since the CIA hires disabled people. Day 2 is another polygraph and a psychological test. The psych test is the famous MMPI-2 psychological test with 567 questions (Google it. There is even a thread on this forum about it (https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=2230.msg35215#msg35215)). You also chat with a shrink who will go over your results with you. Day 3 is the office visit. The office visit will vary depending on which office is recruiting you. Mines took place in the same building and I talked to someone in the office that was recruiting me. We have general chat about daily job tasks, dress code, security measures, where to live in DC or VA, personal and social life (the CIA generally "parties" with each other and FBI, Secret Service, NSA, DIA, and other top secret government people), etc.
Anyway, on to the polygraph...
I'll never forget my polygraph. This will be my first experience with this device ever, like most applicants. I came to Antipolygraph.org because I was afraid of getting falsely accused of being deceptive. My polygrapher seemed nice and friendly, asks me how was my flight and weekend, cracks a few jokes, all of which I think is standard procedure to give me the false sense that I've made a new friend. We enter the polygraph room. There is a camera in one upper corner of the room, and a two-way mirror in the back. If there were any additional cameras hidden, I didn't see them. The room looks just like a small office. Nothing fancy. The "polygraph" device is nothing more than your standard desktop computer connected to the polygraph accessories, which include an arm cuff and tubes. I note the model number and company logo of the polygraph equipment which is Lafayette Instruments. I would later go to their website and research their polygraph devices. The CIA 3-day security process is just like a user posted here (https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=4704.msg34769#msg34769). I spent 3 to 4 hours on both Day 1 and Day 2 being interrogated during the polygraph. One day I'm accused of crime and the next day I'm accused of other stuff like being a spy. Two conflicting accusations. The funny thing is that after my first polygraph, I am told that I will be given the RARE chance to take another polygraph on the second day. Rare? Really? My 3-day schedule had a nice intentional gap in my schedule, a perfect spot for some 3-4hr event, as if a polygraph appointment was meant to fit there. I am on told on Day-2's polygraph that like 80% of applicants are given the chance to take the polygraph again. Ok, so my first polygrapher lied to me about the statistics? Great. The polygraph consists of standard Counterintelligence and Lifestyle questions, both sets which were reviewed with me before hand so I knew exactly what they would be asking. The question that everyone (whether you take a poly for the CIA, FBI, police, NSA, or other agency) is drilled on is something like "have you ever committed a crime for which you weren't caught". This is a cover all question, as it applies to every other area that the polygraphers are concerned about. So they want to see if you'll admit to computer hacking, looking at porn at work, theft, pedophilia, killing someone, violence, drugs, etc. Everyone gets grilled in this area. If you have extensive overseas travel (like military people do), then you'll also be grilled on foreign contacts and foreign intelligence during the counterintelligence portion of the poly. The counterintelligence questions are something like:
- Have you ever plotted to overthrow the US.
- Have you ever had contact with a foreign agency
- Do you have any financial stakes or property in a foreign country
The lifestyle questions may be something like:
- have you ever committed a crime for which you weren't caught?
- Have you used illegal drugs that you have not told us about?
- Did you intentionally falsify info on your application or security paperwork?
- Have you discussed the hiring process with anyone, either in person or online? (yep, they may ask this!)
They will also want to know what you know about the polygraph, and what websites you visited. They know about Antipolygraph.org, and they don't like it. The fact is, they assume that every applicant has done some research, so they want to see if you'll be honest. It is best to say that you researched the CIA hiring process, came across some polygraph information, and considered it garbage and chose not to use countermeasure techniques.
Well two months later I get a rejection letter in the mail. Game over, thanks for playing. I filed my FOIA request and stuff and filed an appeal, which I hear can take years. Don't expect too much from the CIA.
Thanks for sharing your story. You mention, "They know about Antipolygraph.org, and they don't like it." I'd be interested to know what you were told about this website. Also, were you shown a video before your polygraph? If so, do you recall what it said?
Quote from: George_Maschke on Jun 25, 2011, 07:56 AMThanks for sharing your story. You mention, "They know about Antipolygraph.org, and they don't like it." I'd be interested to know what you were told about this website. Also, were you shown a video before your polygraph? If so, do you recall what it said?
Yes we did watch a video on the monitors in the applicant waiting area on Day 1 before our polygraphs. I don't recall the details of the video, it was brief, like 15 minutes, but it was something similar to the phony NSA polygraph video that was floating around the internet years ago. It tells us that the polygrapher is friendly, to just relax and follow instructions and everything will be fine. Following the video, we had our "lab work" where they drew our blood and made us piss in cups and that stuff, then we were able to purchase small breakfast items from the mini-cafe. Then the polygraphers came out into the applicant waiting room and called out their victims by name. Little did I know that my polygrapher was walking me the green mile.
They just asked "Have you researched the polygraph? What websites did you visit? What did you find out?" And if you mention Antipolygraph.org, they make a note of it in your file. This isn't an automatic disqualifier, but they have read everything on this site and they have plenty of applicants who come in and try to beat the poly using the CMs mentioned on here. This is nothing new. I'm sure the polygraphers polygraph each other during training and employ the CMs as practice, so they know what the CMs look like.
I will also add that there is the "numbers test" before your poly starts. The typical writing a number on a peice of paper and lie about what you wrote and the polygrapher will claim that he/she can read your lies like a book. The polygraph session last like 3-4 hours total (so it will be like sitting through two long boring movies), but the machine is only one for like 5 min at a time. After the numbers pre-test, your first session is the set of counterintell questions for 5 minutes. The machine goes off (but even though the session is finished you are still strapped and wired up and you are still being read and tested!). The polygrapher fiddles with the computer. Then the lifestyle questions for about 5 minutes, machine off. And this repeats several times. You'll be asked the same questions over and over and over. The polygrapher will even leave the room at some point and return some 20 minutes later and start accusing you of crap.
I am just curious but did they say you were not suitable or did they say that your clearance was denied? Did they ever start contacting your references?
:P
POLYGRAPHS ARE CONSIDERED ILLEGALAND A BREACH OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN ALL OF EUROPE SINCE 1954 THEY ARE NOT TO BE FOUND IN ANY COURT PROCEEDINGS OR VETTING FOR WHATEVER JOB APPLICATRION ALSO WE NOTE THAT HUMAN RIGHTS IS NOUGHT IKN THE USA WHICH IS WHY WE WILLNEVER EVEN CONSIDER VISITING AS YOU MIGHT BE SUDDENLY CONFRONTED BY SOME SHIT THAT IS OF NO INTEREST WHATEVER IN EUROPE.
QuotePOLYGRAPHS ARE CONSIDERED ILLEGALAND A BREACH OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN ALL OF EUROPE SINCE 1954 THEY ARE NOT TO BE FOUND IN ANY COURT PROCEEDINGS OR VETTING FOR WHATEVER JOB APPLICATRION ALSO WE NOTE THAT HUMAN RIGHTS IS NOUGHT IKN THE USA WHICH IS WHY WE WILLNEVER EVEN CONSIDER VISITING AS YOU MIGHT BE SUDDENLY CONFRONTED BY SOME SHIT THAT IS OF NO INTEREST WHATEVER IN EUROPE.
I commend the societies that respect human and personal rights. But, please spare us the anti-American Euroweenie crap.
You may not be aware of polygraph use in Europe, check this link and become more educated about Europe and Polygraph.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Qp5oYrody-AC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=european+polygraph+law&source=bl&ots=QkRCYTXZ-g&sig=VsO9Nc6FGZ2l_EewfwUu4EBCq-c&hl=en&ei=1NeYTrXeOOrniAL6pbTPDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CHEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=european%20polygraph%20law&f=false
Pretty much same as my experience in 2013
Sounds very much like the crap I had to go through when I applied for the Agency's "summer intern program" in 1979.
I have no idea what my polygraph results were, since those are exempt from FOIA/PA disclosure.
I did learn from a FOIA/PA request I made to the Agency the results of my background investigation. I now realize that it is little more than a popularity contest.
If more people interviewed by the investigators "vote" for you than not, then you're in. Otherwise, you're SOL. Neither does it matter who the people are that they will talk to. They'll meet with any piece of scum that claims to know you.
Fuck the Agency. If your Office of Security minions and/or Agency polygraphers are reading this, I say again "Fuck the Agency".
You;'re absolutely right: Don't expect zilch from the CIA. Our country needs more Phillip Agees and Marks/Marchettis. ::)
yanno, I'm wondering, as I suggested before, and this is only an assumption, but, I'm sure, they use polygraphs to disqualify candidates b/c they need to hire a certain percentage of minorities, however, they do grant you the opportunity of applying, spending your money to make the trip, stay in hotels/motels, etc. (I'm talking about law enforcement here), but I cannot help but wonder, if your political affiliation might have anything to do with it as well, since in today's world, many people define themselves by their political affliliation.
I'm convinced if your leaders are corrupt, so will your people be, and believe we have come to this point...we all know how polygraph examiners work, and that polygraphs are not lie dectectors at all, so why use them? To me, through polygraphs, they can pick and choose, otherwise, why would they use them?
I mean, all people working in the higher ranks of any department you apply with, must know they are a complete fraud, so, why continue to use them?
Is it b/c the examiner's community has managed to keep this all a secret, for so long that a whole lot of people still believe they are accurate?
Also, remember, if they were to discontinue polygraphs in all these agencies, a whole lot of examiners would be out of jobs, and suffer unemployment, living above standard levels, making the pays they make, they'd all suffer great losses, wouldn't they.
People do not do things for one reason, but many, and I'm starting to believe this whole polygraph scam is just that, a big scam....that agencies have been able to keep quiet for a long time.
Also, adding, what I've seen the last two Presidents get away with over the years, I'm not surprised, this entire polygraph scam has gone on for so long. I'm sorry, but looking at the facts, ya just gotta wonder, how corrupt everything is. Right down to our police forces? I don't know, but I'm beginning to become very skeptical. The heads of these departments do know, I know they know, due to the experience my friend had.
I mean, think about it...if the CIA/FBI and all of law enforcement, employed their own polygraph examiners, trained them, etc...I'm certain, a whole lot more honest people would get in....
My friend was told he looked so good on paper, he had tons of great refrences, including people he worked with who were now working at the department he was applying with.
Maybe I'm grasping at straws, perhaps I'm totally off base on all of this, I don't know, it just doesn't make sense....none of it? I believe there is a much bigger and broader picture to take into account. ::)
Quote from: 7A5C454550290 on Aug 08, 2013, 07:38 AMyanno, I'm wondering, as I suggested before, and this is only an assumption, but, I'm sure, they use polygraphs to disqualify candidates b/c they need to hire a certain percentage of minorities, however, they do grant you the opportunity of applying, spending your money to make the trip, stay in hotels/motels, etc. (I'm talking about law enforcement here), but I cannot help but wonder, if your political affiliation might have anything to do with it as well, since in today's world, many people define themselves by their political affliliation.
Oh yeah. And this country has taken a turn for the worst. Check out these recent headlines:
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/lgbt-summit.html
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/cia-at-lgbt-conference.html
http://www.newsmax.com/US/san-antonio-gay-law/2013/07/31/id/518011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57598231/california-law-allows-transgender-students-to-pick-bathrooms-sports-teams-they-identify-with/
You can't make this stuff up people. As a strong right-wing conservative (yes, I hate dykes and faggots), I at one point thought I would find a good career with other conservatives in the intelligence community, where we don't have to be politically correct. Not anymore. CIA has turned queer, just like their stupid gay ass polygraph (which I also failed for no reason). Everything in the original post is true. Same questions, same location of the polygraph building, same ruse, same "bad-polygrapher, dumb-polygrapher" routine.
>:(
I am a conservative, however, I don't hate anyone, not even examiners, but will say, this corrupt way of passing/failing someone with polygraphs, seriously .
Not just for my friend, but for the tons of people in here who have been honest and failed the poly. I encourage you to keep writing, and sharing your stories...to expose this inhuman way of disqualifying candidates. Talk about shody work ethics?
Also, with all due respect...out there in the career world, we work with all kinds of human beings. Work is one hell of a teacher/experience. Teaches us to be respectful, to work together as a team, to build character, fairness and tolerance as well as, being objective. Lets all remember that.
Nothing about this world seems to be fair, and as time goes on, Americans seem to become more greedy & owning less respect for laws or doing what is right.
1. There is one huge factor, we as human beings forget, "just because someone thinks or believes differently, doesn't make them wrong and us right, or visa versa.
2. No matter what you say, think or react to any given situation, affects so many other lives, in a negative or positive way.
I believe, we all need to step back, at times, chill, and then try to articulate ourselves in a polite and intellectual manner. Doesn't mean you have to agree, but to judge others with hate, is to judge yourself.
Let me tell you, there are always people that will judge that person who failed the poly, people as myself, who once believed in them, ruining not only lives but also, break up marriages.
These are not just words I'm writing, so if any poly examiner is reading this, be assured, Karma does exist, and while I wish you no harm, when you hurt others in a negative way, at some point, it's going to come back and bite you but good.
So, next time, you interrogate someone, play your games, slamming your hands down, spitting in the examinees or believe you have the power to read body language, remember, you are not GOD! You have made many mistakes, and you HAVE harmed a whole lot of people in a very negative way! Harmful, not only to that human being, but to yourself. You are no better then any other criminal out there. Remember that, next time you go to bed and try falling asleep. Thank you GM, Doug and all the others in here, who are trying to help.
If nothing else, hold onto the fact that honesty does and will prevail in the end.
Thank you for allowing me to vent, and my apologies to everyone who has suffered from failing a poly, what ever you do, do not allow it to define you. Sometimes when you loose you win!
Oh, I saw a commercial the other day for a new show, contestents will be given a poly, if the machine shows they are telling the truth, they win! >:( REALLY!
Best Regards, Sully
Here is another blog which gives the full details from his CIA polygraph experience, before his rejection, in early 2013. Looks like it's the same sham routine as it has been for years.
http://claudecassagne1964.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/the-polygraph-test-cia-january-3-2013
Your experience roughly parallels mine, give or take a few changes in their "interview" process that have taken place since 1979.
What an incredible waste of time, all to end up with a single page rejection letter.
At least today the anti-drone movement has encouraged many peace activists, for the first time to bring their protest actions right to the gates of Langley. Maybe someday they will have enough participants to disrupt the "HEROIC" work of the cowardly rearguard "fighters" of the CIA!
Of course, one never knows if they were rejected specifically by the "Agency" due to polygraph results.
In my case, I believe that a very defective and unfortunate BI was largely to blame as well!
Thanks for allowing me to inadvertently view a website which is supposedly disdainful to the Central Intelligence Agency, and possibly barring me from future employment with the agency. That may sound very arrogant, ignorant, unintelligent, and naive to say, however, I'm simply looking for information about how I might speak with a recruiter from the agency. Your story about being declined an opportunity for employment with the agency appears grossly clear-cut as far as a reason for your interview not developing into an actual career for you. You're a liar. It doesn't even matter how small your lie(s) may seem to you, and/or your half -truths, or so called 'white lies', the number one reason for being cut from the program at any point, even if it's on your last official day of training (if a person ever made it that far) would be for lying. For agencies as elite as the CIA, lying about not eating a fuckin' candy bar that they just watched you eat is reason enough to cut you from the program. Your entire life becomes your career, and your career becomes your life, and your career involves the dichotomy of both being the most honest and loyal person to our beloved United States of America, and being the most deceptive, ruthless person to declared enemies of the state, any enemy, foreign or domestic, to the U.S., and any and all enemy combatants whether they're state sponsored or not. You better be ready to execute your own father if you must, if he has betrayed the U.S. and got involved in any kind of federal offenses, especially sabotage, sedition, or treason, or any other high crime or misdemeanor targeting our homeland. Suggesting to people to say things in an interview with CIA recruiters such as "I didn't know it was wrong/illegal" if you downloaded music--as benign as that seems, is completely misguiding information, and fundamentally wrong. When seeking a career of this nature, it's not a fuckin' game. Being polygraphed, or not, people who are the most intelligent and wise and so highly trained and just plain experienced to a degree you couldn't even fathom as a recruit seeking a career that you think is about all kinds of adventure and you expect to just transform in a few years into an expert in trade-craft, and if you are even selected for employment, you think you can just pick and choose any of the hundreds of types of jobs offered and needed to be performed by the best individuals that our country can offer, yet you come in with a mindset that you can easily join the elite of the elite in the National Clandestine Service (just for an example), is not only selfish and egotistical, but completely idiotic, and against American principles. The CIA is a fellowship, brotherhood, sisterhood, and a team all working towards the common goal of protecting our homeland, our military and paramilitary forces, working jointly with all 17 of our nation's major intelligence agencies/bureaus/departments, our politicians, every single civilian, et cetera, and the same for our allies...directly, through covert paramilitary forces in the Clandestine Service and other subdivisions of the agency, joint paramilitary operations with the special forces of our nation's armed forces, or indirectly through the collection and analyzing of intelligence on hostile forces and providing that information with our military, through logistics, subversion of enemy populations, committing espionage in enemy countries to gain intelligence and information that has even the slightest bit of significance as far as protecting interests of the United States (and allied nations or groups) is concerned, or of value towards stopping hostile forces in a preemptive manner to prevent tragedy before it's even allowed to happen, or stopping such a force in an early stage of hostilities and aggression against Americans and allies, or during a worst case scenario such as a national emergency or a full-fledged military campaign or war in order to ensure that our armed forces and coalition forces have the most accurate, precise, and recent information to support them, to ensure minimum casualties of civilians--be they U.S.A. friendly, or not--minimum casualties of our own sailors, soldiers, marines, airmen, coast guardsmen, special forces troops/special operators, the tier 1 operators, paramilitary operatives, all coalition and allied forces, CIA gained assets from hostile territories--state sponsored or not--who decide to provide their government's or organization's command's secrets once recruited overseas/abroad who are willing to commit espionage and treason against their government (or organization, for an obvious example, one like al-Qaeda, which of course it's common knowledge that a group like that has no specific homeland, and isn't truly state sponsored, except perhaps aided and abetted by a select few countries which may finance them or what have you--openly, or secretly--and may be given safe havens by some governments...you get the idea.) Even in the Clandestine Service, the most solitary and "rogue" (I'm using that word loosely) operatives, particularly the seemingly lone operatives that aren't even official cover agents and have zero diplomatic immunity, leaving them the most highly unguarded and minimally supported by the agency as well as even the entire U.S. government and the diplomats and politicians with the most power and authority, all the way up to the Commander-in-Chief himself (which is obviously to give the U.S. and CIA complete plausible deniability and the ability to deny that these particular agents or officers even exist, don't belong to our government whatsoever, and may claim that they're not even American citizens...or whatever cover story that may be appropriate, who are tasked with the most dangerous covert missions and espionage related operations/treasonous crimes against enemy countries and enemy allies ......... work as a team. These are the member of the CIA with the highest risk, if caught, of being imprisoned for extended periods, imprisoned for life, put in solitary confinement for life, tortured for any period of time and by any means with absolutely no regard for any international laws, or any protections under the auspices of the Geneva Conventions, may be summarily executed by any method, or if condemned to death anyways, they may not be given the "luxury" of a hopefully quick execution, and possibly tortured to death. That kind of worst case scenario, obviously which is being condemned to death is horrible enough, however spies in the past have been tortured to death in ways that may cause them to suffer for days, weeks, months, or even years. Many, many years of torture where the subject may be brought close to death, only left to sit in a prison again, only long enough to recover from whatever was inflicted on them, then have that process repeated. Victims like these are only kept alive by the worst kinds of sociopaths just so they can inflict any type of harm they want on you until they finally decide to actually execute their victim...most likely in the most awful and prolonged way that can be devised. Even these lone operatives in the most obscure places, sent on missions in every corner of the world work as a team. Experts in covert activity, and the most highly classified missions and operatives who actually are very often completely on their own do work as a team with the CIA and all sorts of other governmental elements. In some instances, either couples (partners), or very small groups...perhaps up to five and almost certainly always less than 10, also obviously work as a team, but I'm showing that an extremely small clandestine group left alone to complete mission objectives is still very similar to a lone agent. They too work as a team in the sense that I'm trying to convey, which is collaborative teamwork with large groups of those in the CIA and military. I can't stress enough that as exclusive and solitary some jobs in the CIA can be, if you think you can be successful with a huge ego in that line of work, and if you think you can ever land that job without having very developed teamwork skills, and interdependence, not only should you expect to be rejected for that career, you should definitely expect that if for somehow you got through the cracks and landed an elite covert position because of an instructor being very confident in you, and all of your psychological profiling determining that your aptitude covers all of the criteria for that sort of position, know that once you're in the field and can't play well with others, you're going to fail, and that may jeopardize not only your life, but lives of your colleagues, you may put the entire U.S. in danger, you may ruin others' hard work at years of attempting to create diplomacy and diplomatic relations, you may somehow sabotage specific military tactics or procedures that have been in development for years meant to be very complicated solutions to very complicated problems militarily by compromising yourself and your responsibilities that you had been tasked with regarding mission objectives you needed to complete, or create any kind of chaotic situation simply by letting your ego get in the way. Being narcissistic and egotistical when it comes to the most delicate problems that our nation and friends constantly face can destroy efforts which you have no idea about, and undermine or eliminate completely years of collective work. Also, if it isn't obvious to you, spies that are caught, even when denied by the U.S. are given every possible chance that the military, CIA, many other agencies in the intelligence community, as well as by foreign allied military and intelligence agencies to be rescued through covert means. We don't leave our own behind. What's the point of all of this ranting and raving that may just look to most as a deranged, over-zealous patriot spewing out nonsense, I assume you must be asking yourselves? Among many other things, most which are laughable, yet pretty damn sad as well which are some of the most idiotic thoughts I've ever seen, and to me, obvious red flags as to why recruits for the Central Intelligence Agency either get booted from the program during training, and especially those who are recruited who give their stories about being rejected straight away after the interview alone, demonstrate to me even more obvious red flags that a recruiter would see and realize quicker and much better than me that a person isn't even a possible candidate for any job available and vital to the agency, even one of the most boring sounding jobs that will become someone's career in the CIA, I can't even begin to understand how you yourselves can't see how certain attitudes, thought patterns, beliefs, and personality traits of yours which come out so brightly and clearly to me without me even knowing or finding out the least bit personal details about your lives and who you really are as a person...are just so...blind to you. I can't fathom how your oblivion to these simple details even work in your minds. I just don't understand how a person can be so oblivious to things that seem so basic to me. That may make me egotistical...I don't really know. All I'm saying is that employees who have careers working for the government, especially for any of the organizations in our intelligence community, and certainly for the CIA whether they have the lowest possible security clearance and the most minimal access to the lowest priority secured information, classified information, all the way to the employees with the top security clearances with access to our nation's most deeply guarded secrets and classified material, they all have to earn the utmost level of trust. There is not a single lie that is acceptable to tell any interviewer, recruiter, instructor, or colleague. The lowest priority piece of classified information accessible to the newest employee is still the most important piece of information which pertains to the security of every security system in our country. Never, ever, under any circumstance should you lie to someone in the CIA when you're seeking a career with them, during any of your training with them, and during any point in your career. What makes you think that you will be given the opportunity to work with the most vital information to the safety of not only America, but global safety and stability, and trusted with classified material that is more important to guard than anything imaginable when you think you can say things like "I didn't know that downloading music was wrong/illegal"? Or lie about, or try to minimize illegal things that you may have done, but never had been caught doing, or convicted of a crime? More often than not, many illegal activities people have been involved in during the course of their lives don't even matter to the CIA. What they care about is that you're 100% honest about it. As a matter of fact, it's possible that having been involved in criminal activity and never having been caught can even increase your chances of being hired by the CIA, as long as you tell your recruiter every detail of every thing you did completely truthfully, particularly for covert jobs, and counter-intelligence jobs. The CIA trains people how to be perfect liars and perfect at deception. Often, it should be needless to say, criminal activity involves all kinds of lying, deceiving, and evading, and if you have managed to pull off substantial crimes without getting caught, that also means you already have some stealth capabilities, and understand how to operate covertly. Avoiding getting caught by law enforcement isn't related to mere luck. It can be, but with all of the technology available especially these days, avoiding being caught is hardly luck. You know how to organize strategies, and even use people without them knowing about it so that they can take the fall for you, and not even realize it. If you're in the Clandestine Service in the CIA, your most important tool in espionage in an enemy country is made clear to you that most of your work will involve pretending to befriend foreigners so that you can eventually literally use them. Your job would be to develop human assets. That means that you find shady people who you actually recruit to be foreign agents that are willing to commit espionage and treason against their government in order to give secrets and classified information to the U.S. government. They become foreign agents working directly through a CIA operative for the U.S. by providing information that's imperative for our government to know in return for sums of cash given to them by the CIA operative who recruited the particular foreign agent. You're trained by the CIA to do some dirty, shady stuff, and you end up working with very shady, morally bankrupt, and potentially very dangerous individuals. You're trained to be a criminal, obviously only in enemy countries though, for the benefit of U.S. interests, homeland security, and gaining information that will make an enemy much more weak and much easier to defeat if military conflict is ever what transpires. That's the whole point of intelligence gathering. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying being a criminal and committing crimes against the U.S. in your past is a quality that the CIA seeks out. It's very diverse, special situations and circumstances and considerations that may in rare cases help your chances of being hired. It depends on the types of crimes and motives for certain crimes that might at the very least, not disqualify you from being employed. Murderers and rapists and violent criminals definitely aren't going to become CIA employees. It's also obvious that those kinds of criminals and many other sorts of criminals would never even attempt to join the CIA, or want to, because of course they're deranged, and derelicts, and knowing that they would be interrogated about crime as standard procedure to try to start a career there, I'm completely positive that people aren't going to start confessing to murders and serious crimes if they haven't been caught for them already especially to the CIA, because they would definitely be turned over to law enforcement, and put in prison. That's incredibly obvious. I'm still just trying to stress my point about not lying about a single thing to the CIA. If you smoked marijuana for a few years as a teenager, don't tell the CIA you only smoked once just to try it, or that you only smoked now and then. If you smoked every day for exactly three years, what should you tell the CIA? You tell them that you smoked weed every day for three years. If you used cocaine for two years, don't tell them you tried cocaine once, or that you used it occasionally or only socially, or whatever. You say you used cocaine for two years. Don't try to dumb down or minimize what you did. Everyone has made mistakes, illegal-related mistakes, and/or otherwise. Of course you won't be proud of admitting things from your past, but being frank and not beating around the bush will begin the process of earning trust very quickly. Your personality and attitude depends on what a recruiter will consider, also. If you're cocky, and have no remorse for illegal activity and/or shameful decisions that are part of your past, but not necessarily illegal, you shouldn't even bother wasting your time going through extensive interviews, and what not. The CIA also looks for upstanding citizens with a good sense of morality, and having scruples, and respect. That's where the egotistical personality come in again, and people with "big egos" are turned away. That doesn't mean don't be confident or assertive, though either. Now I'm telling you that even if you're 100% honest about things that you've done that are wrong, your honesty won't matter if you have no sense of regret or remorse. If anything, if you can admit to everything you've done that was very wrong without lying at all, but you aren't sorry at all that you did it, and wish that you could change it or make amends for it, that will display a person to them who's very defiant. If they think you're going to defy them, that also will never cut it, first of all because you're going to be under a hierarchy, and a chain of command, and you're going to be given orders, and they need to be confident that you're going to obey orders without question, and not try to do things your own way. Once again, that's the egotistical person, and also just another form of distrust, and displaying to them that you aren't trustworthy. There's only one instance when it's alright to lie to people in the CIA. That would be when and if that's your job. Once you have a certain degree of seniority, and higher security clearances, and you've proved time and time again that you're trustworthy, you may be offered a job which is a career change after being in the CIA for quite a long time, and you're given an INTERNAL job. That would be when you're spying on your own colleagues when they're suspected of either being moles, and sharing classified information with enemies for money and other types of gains, and when they're suspected of being double-agents, which is of course when someone works for both the CIA, as well as a foreign, enemy intelligence agency, for example, the FSB of the Russian Federation. Both are obviously traitors, but I can't figure out which is worse: a mole, or a double-agent. To me, it seems like a double-agent, because it takes a special kind of sociopath to betray their own country and then betray an enemy country at the same time. That means to me that a person must be extremely mentally ill, because in a sense, both countries they work for are who they give allegiance to, yet at the same time, both countries are enemies to them. All I see there is a disturbed person, someone with no conscience, and a major sociopath because to me, it seems like they think it's just one big game. Who is superior to the other? All the while, the person is paid by both sides to spy on both sides. Knowing that all kinds of lives are at risk, civilians, and non-civilians, and all masses of other things like alliances and treaties and progress in diplomacy as well as progress in gaining superior military and intelligence capabilities can be all significantly threatened just by one pretty powerful person who can pull all kinds of strings. That's very sick to me.
QuoteThanks for allowing me to inadvertently view a website which is supposedly disdainful to the Central Intelligence Agency, and possibly barring me from future employment with the agency
Dolan, while some posters may have expressed disdain for the CIA, you are wrong to suppose that this is the intent of antipolygraph.org. By the way, what did you have for breakfast?
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Sep 25, 2013, 07:44 PMQuoteThanks for allowing me to inadvertently view a website which is supposedly disdainful to the Central Intelligence Agency, and possibly barring me from future employment with the agency
Dolan, while some posters may have expressed disdain for the CIA, you are wrong to suppose that this is the intent of antipolygraph.org. By the way, what did you have for breakfast?
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Sep 25, 2013, 07:44 PMQuoteThanks for allowing me to inadvertently view a website which is supposedly disdainful to the Central Intelligence Agency, and possibly barring me from future employment with the agency
Dolan, while some posters may have expressed disdain for the CIA, you are wrong to suppose that this is the intent of antipolygraph.org. By the way, what did you have for breakfast?
Probably a super does of Bolivian marching powder cum meth.
I certainly hope, given his bizarre attitudes, that his hopes for Agency work have self-destructed! >:(
Quote from: ClamChowder on Aug 13, 2013, 02:18 PMQuote from: 7A5C454550290 on Aug 08, 2013, 07:38 AMyanno, I'm wondering, as I suggested before, and this is only an assumption, but, I'm sure, they use polygraphs to disqualify candidates b/c they need to hire a certain percentage of minorities, however, they do grant you the opportunity of applying, spending your money to make the trip, stay in hotels/motels, etc. (I'm talking about law enforcement here), but I cannot help but wonder, if your political affiliation might have anything to do with it as well, since in today's world, many people define themselves by their political affliliation.
Oh yeah. And this country has taken a turn for the worst. Check out these recent headlines:
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/lgbt-summit.html
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/cia-at-lgbt-conference.html
http://www.newsmax.com/US/san-antonio-gay-law/2013/07/31/id/518011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57598231/california-law-allows-transgender-students-to-pick-bathrooms-sports-teams-they-identify-with/
You can't make this stuff up people. As a strong right-wing conservative (yes, I hate dykes and faggots), I at one point thought I would find a good career with other conservatives in the intelligence community, where we don't have to be politically correct. Not anymore. CIA has turned queer, just like their stupid gay ass polygraph (which I also failed for no reason). Everything in the original post is true. Same questions, same location of the polygraph building, same ruse, same "bad-polygrapher, dumb-polygrapher" routine.
The agency no longer rejects queers outright? >:( :o
>:(
When you go in for your CIA polygraph at Dulles Discovery during your 3-day processing, you will see this same polygraph video being played that was created by the Defense Security Services a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s
I'm a writer and my current work in progress involves someone getting into the CIA. (fiction with a paranormal twist, so definitely not something controversial or anything.) This thread has been immensely helpful.
I read also that the CIA has an internship program (I think on the CIA's actual page. Does anyone know if someone applying for an internship would also go through the same process? (medical tests, psych exam, polygraph)
QuoteI'm a writer and my current work in progress involves someone getting into the CIA. (fiction with a paranormal twist, so definitely not something controversial or anything.) This thread has been immensely helpful.
I read also that the CIA has an internship program (I think on the CIA's actual page. Does anyone know if someone applying for an internship would also go through the same process? (medical tests, psych exam, polygraph)
Yes, one would go through the EXACT same hoops and lies, with exactly the same minuscule chance of ever obtaining employment there.
Check out this post in another forum:
https://federalsoup.federaldaily.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=56663&FID=47&title=recruitment-stories-from-previous-cia-applicants
It list several postings on various websites (including Antipolygraph.org) from CIA applicants who share their experience with the polygraph, interviews, building locations, and other info about their recruitment process.
The link in the post directly above mines is no longer valid. However here is another link, on that same website, that list the links to recruitment stories from previous CIA applicants over the years:
https://federalsoup.federaldaily.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=57219&FID=47&title=recruitment-stories-from-previous-cia-applicants
Any CIA applicants that have gone through the process and polygraph lately want to share their stories? Is it the same as the original posting in this thread? Which office recruited you?
Here is a good thread on CIA applicants' recruitment stories from over the years. Looks like the same as the ones linked directly above, but the link url has changed:
https://forum.federalsoup.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=57219
admin, I screwed up the link in the above post. please delete the above post (and this sentence) so there are not duplicate posts
I have a CIA polygraph coming up. Would it be alright if I bring a copy of "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector" book to my polygraph sessions? I was going to read over again the book while in the lobby waiting for my polygraph and other processing, and maybe even show it to the polygrapher as proof that I know the machine is sham. What do you think will happen if I do this? Could I still get hired by CIA?
This thread has tons of views! Is this the one of the most viewed threads on this forum, how does it rank with the other threads in terms of views? Amazing that the original poster really just put it all out there with the CIA and put their process on blast. I wonder if the CIA found and killed the original poster yet. hmm...
QuoteI have a CIA polygraph coming up.Would it be alright if I bring a copy of "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector" book to my polygraph sessions? I was going to read over again the book while in the lobby waiting for my polygraph and other processing, and maybe even show it to the polygrapher as proof that I know the machine issham.What do you think will happen if I do this?Could I still get hired by CIA?
I'm afraid your CIA polygrapher would not likely appreciate your candor about your knowledge and understanding of polygraphy. You'd probably be arbitrarily accused of deception and/or countermeasure use, and blacklisted.
Updated link list of detailed stories from CIA applicants who were recruited and then rejected over the years. Some good stuff here.
2014 - http://femininecollective.com/recruited-by-the-cia/ (this girl actually got hired)
2013 - http://www.salon.com/2013/11/03/lies_i_told_to_become_a_spy/
2012 - http://ciacorrupt.blogspot.com/ (this girl uploaded ALL of her documents from her NCS process!)
2011-2013 - http://www.jdunderground.com/alt/thread.php?threadId=17187
2011 - https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=4807.msg37754#msg37754
2011 - https://forum.federalsoup.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9979
2010 - https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=4704.msg34769#msg34769
2008 (written in 2014) - http://valeriamsouza.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/how-i-was-recruited-to-and-rejected-from-the-cia/
2005 - http://www.ducts.org/12_05/html/essays/dutton.html
2002 - https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/528705/polygraph-cia-igcomplaint.pdf
1995 to 2005 - http://archives-2001-2012.cmaq.net/files/22955.htm
1980s (but written in 2009) - http://open.salon.com/blog/oesheepdog/2009/04/14/i_turned_down_the_cia_final_chapter (make sure you click on the first 2 links there to read first 2 parts to the story)
This website is crap look if you want the job don't try to beat the polygraph beat yourself ...tell the truth and no matter why you will always have the trust of family, friends, parents, government, etc
QuoteThis website is crap look if you want the job don't try to beat the polygraph beat yourself ...tell the truth and no matter why you will always have the trust of family, friends, parents, government, etc
I think that applicants for positions of public trust have an ethical obligation to answer relevant questions truthfully. But telling the truth has little bearing on whether or not one passes a polygraph. Polygraphy has no scientific basis (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml), and false positives (https://antipolygraph.org/statements.shtml) are common. In fact, polygraphy is inherently biased against the truthful (and depends on the examiner lying to and deceiving the examinee), as you'll find explained in
The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf). Thus, there are good reasons for honest applicants to educate themselves about polygraph procedure and that which can be done to mitigate the risk of a false positive outcome.
QuoteThis website is crap look if you want the job don't try to beat the polygraph beat yourself ...tell the truth and no matter why you will always have the trust of family, friends, parents, government, etc
I did tell the truth at 2 polygraph tests in my experience. It didn't help me at all. I didn't even get a chance for a NOPA. But because it seems our law enforcement agencies operate at almost a Mafia style organization maybe, its the people, applicants, with a conscience they are trying to weed out
"It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error."
- U.S. Supreme Court, in American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
8-)
Quote from: waiting_game on Jul 05, 2011, 02:39 PMI am just curious but did they say you were not suitable or did they say that your clearance was denied? Did they ever start contacting your references?
In my case, they were already doing the BI just before I went in for the polygraph. Of course, I was applying for their "summer intern" program, so it was necessary to expedite the BS processing ritual.
Interestingly, when I applied to the Agency (back in '79), they were still doing the polygraphs at Headquarters.
Quote from: DoneWithThis on Mar 26, 2013, 04:20 PMPretty much same as my experience in 2013
and mine in 1979, except that they were still doing the polygraphs at Headquarters back then.
Wow, over 104,000 views in this thread! Word around the Intel Community over the last few years is that they do NOT like this thread. The OP put everything on blast, and now the common Google search of things like "CIA Polygraph" yields this thread as the top hit. Moderators, is this the most viewed thread on this forum?
QuoteWow, over 104,000 views in this thread! Word around the Intel Community over the last few years is that they do NOT like this thread. The OP put everything on blast, and now the common Google search of things like "CIA Polygraph" yields this thread as the top hit. Moderators, is this the most viewed thread on this forum?
If it is, then this forum is certainly serving its intended purpose. If the nice folks at OP and OS don't like that, well I think that's just great!
The more embarrassment that can be caused to the Agency the better! :(
Georgie, is this the highest viewed thread on this site?
QuoteGeorgie, is this the highest viewed thread on this site?
Yes, thanks to the Agency's "Office of Security" ::)
QuoteModerators, is this the most viewed thread on this forum?
No, but it is among the top threads in terms of readership.
A search for "CIA Polygraph" in alternative search engines like DuckDuckGo also hits this thread.
I recently received word from someone who works in the CIA that confirms much of what has been said on this site. This person had the periodic re-polygraph that the intelligence officers take every few years, and was told to "stop what you are doing!". The person was told to "stop it!" several times and accused of trying to cheat the polygraph equipment and hide information. The person had nothing to hide, stuck to his/her story, and passed. It is the same routine with everyone who takes the CIA polygraph, whether you are trying to get hired or already a CIA employee. The polygraph examiners interrogate you to see if you will make a big confession. If you have prior overseas travel, such as military, you will probably be interrogated on your foreign contacts and prostitution (including dirty massages). If you keep your mouth shut and deny everything, you are more likely to pass.
Bumping this old thread to get things going again. With the leaks of Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning, and others, I think it is time to start exposing more government secrets. I'm putting the CIA on blast. Attached are the files from someone's pre-employment processing from some years ago. I have included a nice little map of CIA Headquarters, and one of the files is a map to the CIA Dulles Discovery Building in Chantilly, VA where the processing takes place. Notice that none of the documents actually say "CIA", they do this on purpose. In fact, the recruitment mail you receive will only have "Recruitment Center, Washington DC" as the return address, which is strange since the CIA buildings are mostly in Northern VA.
Some other information: If you want to "spot the spook" at a U.S. Embassy, by that I mean know who the undercover CIA officer is, here are some ways to tell:
- The NSA usually has the cover of an Information Management Specialist in the U.S. Department of State Foreign Service.
- The CIA usually has the cover of a Political, Economics, or Management Officer in the U.S. Department of State Foreign Service.
- The CIA, if they have a large presence, will all be grouped under some vague group in the U.S. Department of State Global Address Book. For example, the group may be something like "Executive Staff" or "Regional Affairs", which are not standard groups if you look at the list of Foreign Service jobs on the careers.state.gov website.
- Both the CIA and NSA are usually located on the top floor of the Controlled Access Area (CAA) where only U.S. employees with security clearances area allowed, though in some "friendly" countries the local staff are allowed access to the CAA under escort.
- In non-friendly countries like Russia, Iran, and China, the CIA are not allowed to make friends with the locals. So the undercover CIA officer will not be socializing with the local citizens in these countries.
- The annual performance review, known as the EER, in the U.S. Department of State is required for all employees. The undercover CIA officer will either not fill one out, or fill out one that looks like crap because he/she doesn't care and The Agency has its own performance review system that is more important.
here is the attachment of files.
Diana K,
Have you seen the 9-minute polygraph video referenced in the materials you posted? If so, I'd be interested in any details you might be able to provide about it.
This was the video we watched while in the waiting lobby on the 2nd floor of the applicant processing unit at Dulles Discovery. The showed the video on the the numerous TV screens in the lobby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s
I did not pay much attention to it because I was bored and falling asleep, but I did catch a few glimpses and recognized it from the internet.
QuoteThis was the video we watched while in the waiting lobby on the 2nd floor of the applicant processing unit at Dulles Discovery. The showed the video on the the numerous TV screens in the lobby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s
I did not pay much attention to it because I was bored and falling asleep, but I did catch a few glimpses and recognized it from the internet.
I love all of the people who obviously passed their polygraphs telling how great it is. I'll bet the women acquitted of witchcraft charges at Salem also praised that system as well. How stupid are people who believe in this polygraph nonsense. I hope that everyone who praises the polygraph gets to experience its dark side some day.
QuoteSome other information: If you want to "spot the spook" at a U.S. Embassy, by that I mean know who the undercover CIA officer is, here are some ways to tell:
From a book which I recently read on the KGB, other methods used to sniff out the CIA scum hiding in embassies include:
Higher compensation than the Foreign Service personnel
More frequent changes of duty station than is normally the case in the Foreign Service
Also it is interesting to note that DOS restricted the distribution of its roster of diplomatic staff abroad, in order to prevent any "analysis" of the directory for the purpose of ferreting out the identities of non-State personnel masquerading as "Foreign Service". :)
:)
Here is another interesting cia polygraph story:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/528705/polygraph-cia-igcomplaint.pdf
Quote from: Wandersmann on Nov 07, 2016, 11:54 PMQuoteThis was the video we watched while in the waiting lobby on the 2nd floor of the applicant processing unit at Dulles Discovery. The showed the video on the the numerous TV screens in the lobby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s
I did not pay much attention to it because I was bored and falling asleep, but I did catch a few glimpses and recognized it from the internet.
I love all of the people who obviously passed their polygraphs telling how great it is. I'll bet the women acquitted of witchcraft charges at Salem also praised that system as well. How stupid are people who believe in this polygraph nonsense. I hope that everyone who praises the polygraph gets to experience its dark side some day.
Generally, those suspected of witchcraft were deemed innocent, if they drowned.
The polygraph hasn't proven much of an improvement over the lie detection techniques of 1692! LOL! :D
Quote from: Wandersmann on Nov 07, 2016, 11:54 PMQuoteThis was the video we watched while in the waiting lobby on the 2nd floor of the applicant processing unit at Dulles Discovery. The showed the video on the the numerous TV screens in the lobby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s
I did not pay much attention to it because I was bored and falling asleep, but I did catch a few glimpses and recognized it from the internet.
I love all of the people who obviously passed their polygraphs telling how great it is. I'll bet the women acquitted of witchcraft charges at Salem also praised that system as well. How stupid are people who believe in this polygraph nonsense. I hope that everyone who praises the polygraph gets to experience its dark side some day.
Equally offensive to me are those who "use", in the most negative sense of the word, this forum (generally concealed as anonymous "guests") for advice on how to successfully navigate the IC application process. >:(
Here is an update on the CIA Hiring Process. Pretty much everything said in this entire thread is still accurate.
The interviews and 3-day processing, which include the medical, psychological, and polygraph still take place at the Dulles Discovery Building at 13800 Air and Space Museum Parkway, Chantilly VA 20171. The phone number for the Applicant Operations Center (AOC), which is also the Recruitment Center, has changed. The number is 1-866-236-1730, ext. 181970. Fax number is 866-668-7518. The AOC/Recruitment Center is on the 2nd floor of the Dulles Discovery 1 (DD1) building.
Before you get an interview, you will take a couple of online IQ and personality assessments on PerformanceFit.com, the CAM and Hogan assessments, which includes the Hogan Personality Inventory (HPI) test. The CIA is giving applicants more security protocols when traveling. They are strictly saying not to acknowledge that DD1 is a government facility, even though everyone already knows it, not to mention that you are interviewing with the U.S. government, only use your first name when taking a taxi to DD1, pay with cash not credit card, use the hotel phone to call the taxi and not your cell phone so your cell phone isn't linked to a taxi trip to this CIA building, and other paranoia.
At the info session before your interview, you sign a form saying that there is a 5-week "Welcome to CIA - Practice of Intelligence" orientation when you get hired that takes place at headquarters, and depending on your job another follow-up course outside of the DC area, which is probably The Farm in Williamsburg, VA. The info session is pretty standard stuff, you have two briefings. The first briefing goes over the mission and organizational structure of the CIA, which can mostly be found on the CIA website. The second briefing goes through the security process. Some takeaways from the info session are:
- You must be "responsible" with your use of alcohol. Yeah...um...
- no drug use within one year of your application date, not even marijuana
- finances are the biggest reason for espionage, so the CIA will check your finances thoroughly
- They said the polygraph compensates for your nervousness and they WANT you to pass. They said it is best to confess whatever is on your chest during the poly. Right, so they can get those confessions! I wanted to yell "bullshit" when I heard this.
- Do not take any medications to relax before the poly, do not be hungover.
- Foreign influences and contacts must be reported. All of them. This includes ALL of your Facebook foreign contacts, even if you haven't met them.
- NO ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING OF MUSIC, SHOWS, MOVIES. The CIA constantly stressed this, but the only way they will know is if you tell them during your SF-86 pre-poly security interview, or on the poly. They will not audit your computer and IP address, so keep your mouth shut! You can theoretically download all the music you want, just don't tell them about it.
- Avoid living with non-US citizens when you get hired.
- The CIA uses the 2008 version of the SF-86 because the form is shorter than the 2010 version.
- If you see a shrink, the CIA says they will not request to see your whole file as that is protected by HIPAA. They will just ask your shrink of your ability to protect classified information.
- The CIA claims they will hire you if you are a dual-citizen, but I'm sure it depends on which country. Your #1 loyalty must be to the U.S.
- Your foreign national spouse will have to be naturalized if you get hired, but you can get hired before she/he is naturalized. Again, I'm sure this depends on the country your spouse is from.
- If you publish something while working at CIA, it must be reviewed first. I hear this review can take years, but the CIA didn't say that. Your resume also must be reviewed before you leave CIA.
I have a feeling the CIA lied a bit. If you see a shrink, they probably will find a way to get your file and declare you "unsuitable". Judging from what I have read on other forums, such as this one (https://forum.federalsoup.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76604#post840140), a foreign spouse will stall your hiring process.
Some automatic disqualifiers are:
- dishonorable discharge from military
- felony conviction
- illegal downloading of music presently and in future
- pending criminal charges
- drug use in last 12 years
- a recent conviction of any crime. I am not sure what "recent" means, maybe in the last year?
- strong connections to countries like Russia, China, Iran, Syria
The whole process can take 2 years. The general process goes like this, with 1-2 month wait between each step: Online application, online testing, info session and interview, COE, SF-86 review, phone interview to go over your SF-86, Poly/Psych/Med 3-day appointments at the AOC, NAC and Credit Check, Background Check, Adjudication, EOD. Notice the last few steps only happen if you pass the poly, which most people don't. If you are recruited by the Directorate of Operations National Clandestine Services, you will have to fill out another packet asking for the same information that you put in your online application. You will also attend some pre-hiring events where you do role playing to simulate how you handle various situations, a critical skill for HUMINT collection that you will be doing in NCS. This is before you get your COE.
For the polygraph, things haven't changed. They still use the relevant/irrelevant test, and try to fool you in the beginning into thinking that they can read your lies like a book. Mental countermeasures work best. Breathing countermeasures can be screwed up and caught because of the pneumatic tubes around your chest. Think exciting thoughts during different sets of relevant questions that will make your body jump and you will pass. That is how my friend passed it and she is a part-time backpage.com prostitute to make money, now she works at the CIA!
That's all I got. Others feel free to chime in.
George/Admin,
Can you permanently delete the above post l, and this one as well? I just got a scary visit from the FBI for posting this...
QuoteGeorge/Admin,
Can you permanently delete the above post l, and this one as well? I just got a scary visit from the FBI for posting this...
We have no way of verifying that you are the author of the preceding post, and very much doubt that you are. It seems unlikely that the post's author would have received a visit from the FBI because 1) it is not illegal to discuss the CIA hiring process and 2) the author posted through the Tor anonymous network. We note that you did not use Tor.
QuoteHere is another interesting cia polygraph story:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/528705/polygraph-cia-igcomplaint.pdf
Fascinating account!
The CIA actually has an Office of EEO?
Well, Bolivia has a Navy. ;D
Quote from: Wandersmann on Nov 07, 2016, 11:54 PMI'll bet the women acquitted of witchcraft charges at Salem
Were any of the accused women at Salem actually ever acquitted? Probably about as many as there have been CIA applicants who have successfully appealed an adverse employment decision? :D ;D
QuoteIf you see a shrink
In any case, you will see an Agency shrink as part of the application process, as well as suffer the MMPI and/or similar other psychometric test instrument.
It takes 2 years now to complete the Agency application process? WHO in their right mind would put up with all of this crap?
Also, as I've mentioned various times in my posts, the BI is equally as problematic as is the polygraph during the application ordeal. ::)
Quote from: 7E7B7276711F0 on Mar 23, 2017, 12:47 PMQuoteGeorge/Admin,
Can you permanently delete the above post l, and this one as well? I just got a scary visit from the FBI for posting this...
We have no way of verifying that you are the author of the preceding post, and very much doubt that you are. It seems unlikely that the post's author would have received a visit from the FBI because 1) it is not illegal to discuss the CIA hiring process and 2) the author posted through the Tor anonymous network. We note that you did not use Tor.
I can't help but wonder if this "request" was not in fact a "plant" by someone in the Office of Security or Office of Personnel?
Although the information provided about the Agency application process was certainly unclassified, it nonetheless contains a level of detail about its methods that the Agency doesn't like to see disclosed or discussed publicly. ::)
QuoteGeorge/Admin,
Can you permanently delete the above post l, and this one as well? I just got a scary visit from the FBI for posting this...
HA! now that is interesting. ;D
Looks like someone, and I won't even surmise their affiliation, really, really does not want the information in that 5:52 post to be public.
I'm not even particularly counter-cultural, or anti-gov, or even wildly antipolygraph. But This is why I like this site. freedom of the press. we still live in a democracy, much as the 3 letter agencies would prefer that we didn't.
QuoteHA! now that is interesting. ;D
Looks like someone, and I won't even surmise their affiliation, really, really does not want the information in that 5:52 post to be public.
No, it's not the kind of material that the Office of Security in Langley wants to see publicized, at least not to that great a level of detail!
There are many lurkers from Langley on this site, usually masquerading as "guests". That is probably the case of this individual who is using deception in an attempt to get the post removed. Fortunately, his "spook" tactics didn't work.
Another Langley "guest" not long ago called for me to be banned from AP. Imagine a guest telling a forum Moderator what to do. Unfortunately for him, the Office of Security has no say over what appears on this site. We should be happy that what gets discussed on AP is getting the folks in Langley so worried. That means that we at AP are accomplishing one of our missions! ::) 8-)
Fact straight from the horse's mouth (more like the horse's ass): If you fail the CIA polygraph, either through disqualifying admissions or some other crap, you are blacklisted from ever gaining CIA employment for the rest of your life. Unless you can change your name and SSN. If you reapply, the Office of Security gets their dirty fingers in the mix early in the process, and if you are selected for recruitment, they run your SSN for a preliminary check before your COE. When your polygraph history shows up, you are instantly rejected. This info is straight from CIA. Don't believe that stuff about reapplying in one year, you can, but you have no chance of getting in.
QuoteFact straight from the horse's mouth (more like the horse's ass): If you fail the CIA polygraph, either through disqualifying admissions or some other crap, you are blacklisted from ever gaining CIA employment for the rest of your life. Unless you can change your name and SSN. If you reapply, the Office of Security gets their dirty fingers in the mix early in the process, and if you are selected for recruitment, they run your SSN for a preliminary check before your COE. When your polygraph history shows up, you are instantly rejected. This info is straight from CIA. Don't believe that stuff about reapplying in one year, you can, but you have no chance of getting in.
EXACTLY! The same is also true if one has "failed" the BI, no matter how incompetently or unfairly it was conducted. The recruiters have no knowledge of, much less play any role in whatever the Office of Security ultimately decides.
I was, on more than one occasion, told by Agency recruiters that I was a likely candidate for an offer of employment, based on my qualifications and interests. On one occasion, I was even approached by the Agency (and not the other way around!), with respect to employment. Unfortunately those prospects were f*cked up by the results of a previous BI still on file at the Office of Security from an old application made to their summer college "intern" program.
Thank you, Snowdens I and II, for your valiant efforts to expose the hiring scams run by Langley and Ft. Meade. I only wish that I'd been smart enough to think of trying to re-apply with a new SSN! LOL :D ;D
I sincerely hope to have fulfilled the wishes of the polygraph examiner I dealt with at Langley, who once asked if my intent in applying to work there was to cause the Agency "harm". In those naive days, I had absolutely no idea as to what he meant, nor why an applicant for employment would want to even consider performing such a nefarious deed.
Now, countless years older and infinitely wiser, I propose to spend every one of my remaining days to fulfill the worthy expectation that this charlatan/polygrapher so nobly instilled in me so many years ago. 8-)
QuoteFact straight from the horse's mouth (more like the horse's ass): If you fail the CIA polygraph, either through disqualifying admissions or some other crap, you are blacklisted from ever gaining CIA employment for the rest of your life. Unless you can change your name and SSN. If you reapply, the Office of Security gets their dirty fingers in the mix early in the process, and if you are selected for recruitment, they run your SSN for a preliminary check before your COE. When your polygraph history shows up, you are instantly rejected. This info is straight from CIA. Don't believe that stuff about reapplying in one year, you can, but you have no chance of getting in.
When you state that this information is "straight from CIA," what precisely do you mean? Is it stated in a policy document? If so, can you provide a copy? If not, how do you know this?
Quote from: George_Maschke on May 10, 2017, 11:38 AMQuoteFact straight from the horse's mouth (more like the horse's ass): If you fail the CIA polygraph, either through disqualifying admissions or some other crap, you are blacklisted from ever gaining CIA employment for the rest of your life. Unless you can change your name and SSN. If you reapply, the Office of Security gets their dirty fingers in the mix early in the process, and if you are selected for recruitment, they run your SSN for a preliminary check before your COE. When your polygraph history shows up, you are instantly rejected. This info is straight from CIA. Don't believe that stuff about reapplying in one year, you can, but you have no chance of getting in.
When you state that this information is "straight from CIA," what precisely do you mean? Is it stated in a policy document? If so, can you provide a copy? If not, how do you know this?
I'd be interested in knowing too. Irrespective of its source, the information mirrors my experiences completely! :(
Quote from: George_Maschke on May 10, 2017, 11:38 AMQuoteFact straight from the horse's mouth (more like the horse's ass): If you fail the CIA polygraph, either through disqualifying admissions or some other crap, you are blacklisted from ever gaining CIA employment for the rest of your life. Unless you can change your name and SSN. If you reapply, the Office of Security gets their dirty fingers in the mix early in the process, and if you are selected for recruitment, they run your SSN for a preliminary check before your COE. When your polygraph history shows up, you are instantly rejected. This info is straight from CIA. Don't believe that stuff about reapplying in one year, you can, but you have no chance of getting in.
When you state that this information is "straight from CIA," what precisely do you mean? Is it stated in a policy document? If so, can you provide a copy? If not, how do you know this?
I was told by the CIA employee who answered the phone at the Recruitment Center that day. This is my fate, I am blacklisted. I did not get the response in writing. Ironically, when I called some time later to see if I would be told the same thing, they would not give me any information. It is almost as if I was lucky enough to get a new employee that day on the phone who did not know what he could or could not tell me, and he was probably later reprimanded for telling me too much. I probed and got him to dig a bit, and he said my rejection had something to do with my previous rejection from many years ago. I asked about the "one year reapplying rule" since my polygraph shit storm was several years prior, and was told that it didn't matter. The Office of Security put an X on my application, even though the office that recruited me wanted to give me another COE. They were surprised my application did not get closed sooner. I asked if it was even worth me ever reapplying now, and I was told NO.
Quote"one year reapplying rule" since my polygraph shit storm was several years prior,
No, it's now been changed to the 100-year reapplying rule!
In any case, the Office of Security acts independently of the recruiters and/or other Agency staff, as I can personally attest.
:D ;D
Is it a crime to post your CIA interview process documents online, and other recruitment documents that were sent to you by CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI, DEA, etc.? None of these documents are classified and they get sent through the unsecure internet into a person's free email service inbox. Generally the documents just tell your interview location, times, polygraph and medical appointment details, and the like. What about posting a copy of your FOIA'd background check file? Any crime in doing this, will the feds come and bust through a rejected applicant's door if he/she posts all of their recruitment docs? I have seen other people do this, particularly Lynnae Williams (https://lynnaewilliams.com/), and she was never busted.
Yes, Lynnae's site and her story are both absolutely fascinating.
It's really awful when all that someone has worked so hard for is so quickly and ruthlessly swept away by a vengeful organization.
Since anything released by the IC agencies through the FOIA/PA are already so heavily redacted, I strongly doubt that their disclosure or publication to others would ever be considered a security issue.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Oct 14, 2011, 08:56 PMYou may not be aware of polygraph use in Europe, check this link and become more educated about Europe and Polygraph.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Qp5oYrody-AC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=european+polygraph+law&source=bl&ots=QkRCYTXZ-g&sig=VsO9Nc6FGZ2l_EewfwUu4EBCq-c&hl=en&ei=1NeYTrXeOOrniAL6pbTPDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CHEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=european polygraph law&f=false
Annette,
Thank you for sharing your experience with the CIA polygraph. I would be interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, approximately how long ago this was? For example, was it this year, last year, about five years ago?
Quote from: quickfix on May 19, 2018, 05:42 AMThank you for sharing your experience with the CIA polygraph.
You mean thank you for sharing your fantasy. Masturbation? Oral or anal sex? Adultery? George, surely you can't believe these questions would ever be asked on an applicant exam by the CIA or any federal agency. Not only are they not part of any preemployment polygraph exam, these topics are strictly prohibited from even being discussed per DOD regs. "Annette's" story is nothing more that pure bullshit.
Quote from: George_Maschke on May 19, 2018, 09:12 AMQuote from: quickfix on May 19, 2018, 05:42 AMThank you for sharing your experience with the CIA polygraph.
You mean thank you for sharing your fantasy. Masturbation? Oral or anal sex? Adultery? George, surely you can't believe these questions would ever be asked on an applicant exam by the CIA or any federal agency. Not only are they not part of any preemployment polygraph exam, these topics are strictly prohibited from even being discussed per DOD regs. "Annette's" story is nothing more that pure bullshit.
I would very much like that to be true. But when I applied for a graduate internship with the CIA in the early 1990s, an applicant for CIA employment staying in the same Tyson's Corner motel as I was told me she was asked similar questions during her polygraph interrogation. She had no reason to lie to me about that.
I haven't heard stories like that in recent years. Hence my question for Annette regarding the time frame during which her polygraph experience took place.
This is one of the few times I agree with quickfix.
Annette's story is in gory detail, as though the polygraph is recent when memories are fresh.
I can believe that intimate sexual questions would have been asked some time ago, maybe 20 years or so.
The one CIA polygraph question that comes to mind: "Have you ever had sex with a farm animal?"
Quote from: 7764737C61120 on May 19, 2018, 02:19 PMThis is one of the few times I agree with quickfix.
Annette's story is in gory detail, as though the polygraph is recent when memories are fresh.
I can believe that intimate sexual questions would have been asked some time ago, maybe 20 years or so.
The one CIA polygraph question that comes to mind: "Have you ever had sex with a farm animal?"
I haven't heard about CIA polygraphers asking questions about sex with a farm animal. Have you? The one agency that I know has allegedly asked this question is the U.S. Secret Service.
I would like to hear more from Annette. Whatever else is true, we know that the CIA is an agency that, within the past 20 years, has engaged in kidnapping, torture (including torture to death), and assassination. The asking of the kind of questions that Annette recounts are tame by comparison.
I too would like more detail from Annette. I took the CIA polygraph a few years ago and was not asked a single sexual-question...until the post-test/interrogation where the polygrapher just took a shot in the dark and asked me if I looked at some "pictures". He did not say porn, but I knew what he meant. So I proudly replied that I do look at porn, legal stuff, only at home. I probably should have first made the polygrapher tell me what "pictures" he was referring to. My CIA polygraph drilled me on criminal activity, and I know why. Of course, I failed and was denied clearance and lost the job offer. I didn't confess to anyting, but was suspected of deception and countermeasures. This was during the Obama days.
Could the CIA have changed their policies in the Trump days and allowed for sex questions to be asked now when they think it is appropriate?
Quote from: George_Maschke on May 19, 2018, 02:06 AMThe first question, "Is your middle name Ashley?" (yes) ..."Do you wear corrective lenses?" (yes)... "Are you 26 years of age?" (yes)... "Is your mother's name Stephanie?". (yes)
Annette, is this personal information true? And did you use your real first name in this post? Annette Ashley XXX who is 26 years old, wears glasses, with a mother named Stephanie. Yeah, bye bye anonymity.
Quote from: George_Maschke on May 19, 2018, 02:06 AM"In you last relationship with a male did you have oral or anal sex?" (no).
Well, you are boring as fuck. No wonder you did not get into the CIA. You aren't slutty enough. Yeesh. :D
Quote from: quickfix on May 19, 2018, 05:42 AMAnnette,
Thank you for sharing your experience with the CIA polygraph. I would be interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, approximately how long ago this was? For example, was it this year, last year, about five years ago?
I can tell you for CERTAINTY that this line of questioning has not been asked since the 90's, and even then it was tame and related to homosexuality. This is either a lie, or she took the test back in the 80's.
Off-topic replies have been moved to: this topic (https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1527181596/1#1).
George/Admin,
I will admit that I am a long time viewer and poster on this site, thought I post under various IP addresses and screen names. As you can see from your backend, I am posting through Tor. This is not the first time you have suspected that the same person was chatting with themselves. You suspected the same thing in this thread a few months ago:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=5570.msg43250#msg43250
Maybe the posters are actually different people. I have used Tor and other anonymous proxies before and somehow ended up with the same IP address as someone else. Shit happens. Give the posters a break. They are not trolling. They are sharing their polygraph experiences. The fact is, we have run out of IPv4 addresses, so duplicates will happen.
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/north-america-just-ran-old-school-internet-addresses/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-internet-has-run-out-of-ip-addresses-sort-of-ipv4/
Quote from: beat_the_system on May 29, 2018, 01:10 PMGive the posters a break.
Um, no. Sock puppetry violates AntiPolygraph.org's posting policy and will be exposed whenever possible. In the present example and the other to which you refer, we had extremely high levels of confidence that posts purporting to be from multiple authors were, in fact, the handiwork of a single individual.
Correction, I did not use Tor on my last post, I am using another anonymous proxy browser service. But George, you were wrong. In the previous posts that I linked to, one of the postings was mines under a different moniker, and the other person posting was not me. We were both using Tor apparently and I don't know how we got the same IP. Did you check the browser type and version, MAC address, and other unique identifiers?
To add to this thread, I hear the CIA process has not changed much since the original posting. Still located at Dulles Discovery, same polygraph machine and routine, still trying to make people admit to disqualifying stuff. I know a few people who got hired and thanks to this site, they were able to cheat and beat the poly and hide their dirty deeds from CIA. The beat-the-poly message is getting through to people!
beat_the_system,
Let's get real.
You are not only a troll, but you are a most awkward and clumsy troll.
Prove me wrong.
Call me at 603-801-5179 and we'll talk about it.
[cue crickets]
Awkward and clumsy? I doubt it. I use various anonymous proxies and IP addresses. But I know that it is just a minor layer of security that anyone with enough time on their hands can break through, if they cared to. I use Tor sometimes, but this site sometimes loads real slow on Tor for me now probably because of this country's slow internet. I do not live in the U.S. so even if my real "home" IP address and location was discovered, it means nothing to me. We know who you are Dan, your phone number and mugshot are all over the internet. I do not care to call you. I will proudly say that not only am I with the anti-polygraph movement, I am also NOT a patriot with no loyalty to the U.S., so if I reveal national security secrets that I have obtained I don't give a fuck. I am loyal to my family, true friends, and whoever is paying my salary. That is all. Props to Snowden, Wikileaks, Anonymous, and anyone else exposing government secrets.
A user named Someguy0 on the federalsoup.com forum was recently banned and had his posts removed for posting the latest FBI polygraph questions. I was able to find the Google cache of the page, which used to be at https://forum.federalsoup.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=901948, and here is a copy and paste of Someguy0's deleted post:
-----------------------------------------
As we all know or can find out from a Google search, the CIA conducts their pre-employment processing and interviews at the Dulles Discovery Building - 13800 Air & Space Museum Pkwy, Chantilly VA. Here are the questions you may be asked, which as been verified by many applicants:
The polygraph has two sets of questions, counterintelligence and lifestyle. In addition, there is a stupid pretest, a post test interrogations, and a repeat of questions. It will take about 4 hours total.
Some of the "irrelevant" questions, where you should answer with a calm yes, are questions like:
- Is today Monday?
- Are we in virginia?
- Is your name XXX?
- Are you sitting down?
The counterintelligence questions are broad enough to cover everything, so they are something like:
- Do you have any financial stakes or property in a foreign country?
- Have you ever plotted to overthrow the US government?
- Have you ever had contact with a foreign agency?
The lifestyle questions are also broad and may be something like:
- Have you discussed the hiring process with anyone, either in person or online?
- Have you ever committed a crime for which you weren't caught?
- Have you used illegal drugs that you have not told us about?
- Did you intentionally falsify info on your application or security paperwork?
During the pre-test, if you admit to anything in these counterintelligence or lifestyle areas, you will be drilled in that area. If you spike the charts during the actual test in any of these areas, you will be drilled during the post-test interrogation.
The trick is, expect to be accused of lying, interrogated, and being told you are hiding something. Do not tell them anything, make no admissions. If you choose to use countermeasures, use the mental countermeasures described on the website Antipolygraph.org in the book The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf). Do not try the breathing or biting countermeasures, they can be detected if you do them wrong.
Yes, I am exposing information here. Enjoy!
How long must those who have simply applied for a job with the federal government (or applied for a position with the local police department) endure the preemployment polygraph screening test. This is an absurd procedure that is based on a faulty scientific premise – in fact it is pure pseudo science – and the government knows very well the test can be manipulated very easily so as to allow a liar to produce a perfect truthful chart regardless of whether he or she is lying or not. The government admitted this when they prosecuted me for teaching people how to do just that. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N3fHkCFxgQQ&feature=youtu.be
Interesting blog I found:
https://bannedfromintel.wordpress.com/
Just got word that everyone should LIE to pass the CIA poly. Seriously, don't tell them anything. Three people just EOD'd with NCS and the DI within CIA and they lied to pass their poly. The poly is still part of the 3-day session at Dulles Discovery in Chantilly, VA (http://wikimapia.org/9149865/Dulles-Discovery). The CIA still uses the relevant/irrelevant test, and you should just use mental countermeasures on different relevant questions to randomly "spike" your charts. When they ask you questions about drug use, crime, foreign contacts, lying, etc., just answer "NO". Do not give them any minor info. They will interrogate you, accuse you of lying and hiding stuff, but so what, just go with it. One guy just got EOD'd and was able to hide the fact that the police came to his house recently for him beating up his girlfriend, but no arrests and no charges were made so there is no record that the CIA will check. Some will say this is bad and this guy should not be CIA, but that is not the point, the point is this proves the fallacies of the poly if criminals can lie and beat it. So, everyone, don't confess, don't admit to anything not on file (which means LIE), and use mental countermeasures only because those cannot be detected.
Quote from: Doug_Williams on Dec 29, 2019, 03:02 PMJust got word that everyone should LIE to pass the CIA poly. Seriously, don't tell them anything. Three people just EOD'd with NCS and the DI within CIA and they lied to pass their poly. The poly is still part of the 3-day session at Dulles Discovery in Chantilly, VA (http://wikimapia.org/9149865/Dulles-Discovery). The CIA still uses the relevant/irrelevant test, and you should just use mental countermeasures on different relevant questions to randomly "spike" your charts. When they ask you questions about drug use, crime, foreign contacts, lying, etc., just answer "NO". Do not give them any minor info. They will interrogate you, accuse you of lying and hiding stuff, but so what, just go with it. One guy just got EOD'd and was able to hide the fact that the police came to his house recently for him beating up his girlfriend, but no arrests and no charges were made so there is no record that the CIA will check. Some will say this is bad and this guy should not be CIA, but that is not the point, the point is this proves the fallacies of the poly if criminals can lie and beat it. So, everyone, don't confess, don't admit to anything not on file (which means LIE), and use mental countermeasures only because those cannot be detected.
You know, I've been saying that for over 40 years now, and it's absolutely true. Be careful with this – the thugs and charlatans in the US federal government polygraph industry threw me in prison for two years for saying basically this very same thing to an undercover federal agent. Not only was I imprisoned, but my business of training people how to pass a polygraph test was shut down for five years. And I'm still waiting for another six months plus before I can start it back up again.
Quote from: Doug_Williams on Dec 31, 2019, 04:55 AMQuote from: Doug_Williams on Dec 29, 2019, 03:02 PMJust got word that everyone should LIE to pass the CIA poly. Seriously, don't tell them anything. Three people just EOD'd with NCS and the DI within CIA and they lied to pass their poly. The poly is still part of the 3-day session at Dulles Discovery in Chantilly, VA (http://wikimapia.org/9149865/Dulles-Discovery). The CIA still uses the relevant/irrelevant test, and you should just use mental countermeasures on different relevant questions to randomly "spike" your charts. When they ask you questions about drug use, crime, foreign contacts, lying, etc., just answer "NO". Do not give them any minor info. They will interrogate you, accuse you of lying and hiding stuff, but so what, just go with it. One guy just got EOD'd and was able to hide the fact that the police came to his house recently for him beating up his girlfriend, but no arrests and no charges were made so there is no record that the CIA will check. Some will say this is bad and this guy should not be CIA, but that is not the point, the point is this proves the fallacies of the poly if criminals can lie and beat it. So, everyone, don't confess, don't admit to anything not on file (which means LIE), and use mental countermeasures only because those cannot be detected.
You know, I've been saying that for over 40 years now, and it's absolutely true. Be careful with this – the thugs and charlatans in the US federal government polygraph industry threw me in prison for two years for saying basically this very same thing to an undercover federal agent. Not only was I imprisoned, but my business of training people how to pass a polygraph test was shut down for five years. And I'm still waiting for another six months plus before I can start it back up again.
Well this is my response to the travesty of OPERATION LIE BUSTERS. Check it out and let me know what you think: http://operationliebusters.com/