AntiPolygraph.org Message Board

Something that has been made very apparent to me, is that all these forums in the post conviction go from helpful or hopeful advice (hoping to get help), they go from that to people (mostly polygraphers) hating on sex offenders. Is that necessary? Seriously? I feel like if a person wants to hate sex offenders needs to first do research on why they hate a person. I have no problem with a person educated about the subject hating a certain set of people.

Looking at the laws in which many sex offenders are charged and convicted under are often quite ridiculous in my opinion. Maybe I have that opinion after going through the adult system as a juvenile. Being charged and convicted as an adult, being only 16 at the time. It doesn't make sense.
In this state a person urinating in public can be charged with a sex offense. And that will have them possibly registar for the rest of their life.

I don't agree or stand up for Pedofilia or child molestation, rape, or any sex offense... Vague terms. But I don't judge them as less than human, or worse. I believe there's a sickness that needs to be addressed, and thinking patterns that need to be changed. That's difficult to do in the sex offender market.

From my personal experience it is hard to find a treatment provider who is actually in there for the treatment and to get real help; Because any offense, sexual or not is caused by thinking errors and improper thought process as deemed by our society.

The thing is for me, if you want to bash on the sex offender population, go ahead, but be informed, ignorant people are rather amusing because they show how ignorant they are, and possibly how stupid they are (stupid in this context is the inability to learn.)

So why would a person who "hates" sex offenders want to come into a forum just to hate them? If I don't like a certain person I avoid them, or I try to figure out why I don't like them. Because I don't want to make their life any harder than it already is. The same is true with sex offenders. We are trying to recover and fix the problems in our lives and thinking that led to our offenses. Hating us and making our lives even more difficult than it already is. That won't aid in recovery, and won't make us productive to contribute back to society.

Empty, Cold hearted, Mean, and/or Cruel people are the type to make someone life harder. What good human would see someone trying to make their life better and get the work done that'll make them a better human being and try to hurt them? Those who don't know any better.

It amuses me to read what ignorant people say about sex offenders and don't know what they are talking about. The truth is most sex offenders will never reoffend with treatment (7%) and those who do or likely to, (in this state) are specially commited. Those who commited their offenses when they were minors but received treatment have an even lower risk.

The guilt that is developed after treatment is worse than anything that any human can put on us. That guilt can be dangerous if not kept under check. So why would a person want to make another human more likely to reoffend? Or wish that on another person?

I ask you, before you hate sex offenders, realize that we are humans who commited horrible acts, and That it will haunt us. But please look into it before you start to bash on what you may think happened. Look at the truth of how polygraphs affect those under scrutiny, look at the facts, not opinions. Because I just want to live my life and be prodcutive and give back to the society that raised me from foster care  to now. I want to help so no one has to go through what I did. Or go through what I did to other people.

When can people have a second chance? Our society doesn't forgive easily (If at all) and they will never forget. When will people become aware?

Quote from: 323635590 on Apr 07, 2011, 05:11 AMSomething that has been made very apparent to me, is that all these forums in the post conviction go from helpful or hopeful advice (hoping to get help), they go from that to people (mostly polygraphers) hating on sex offenders. Is that necessary? Seriously?

Chuckles, it seems that some people just need someone to hate. In today's politically correct world, sex offenders are the only human beings we are "allowed" to hate. So, sex offenders everywhere are a lightening rod for this hatred. Officials know they can gather votes by using this hatred as a platform. Treatment providers and polygraphists also capitalize on the same hysteria. As I said before, I choose to see the world from a sober footing. While, I don't support crimes of any kind, I will not allow hatred to fill my heart. Ironically, it seems to be the sex offenders in treatment that seem to be more in touch with their issues. These people who have their hearts poisoned with hatred should first look into their own souls.

Hey Stefano, I'm Chuckles - he's Kol,

I can see how you might have got us mixed up, we are both young, relatively harmless guys who got caught up in a system designed to control serious criminals like rapists and pedophiles.

When I first read Kol's protest post my first reaction to it was that it doesn't really belong on this website. This website is about the polygraph, not about battling the hate poured out on sex offenders. There are other websites dedicated to fighting needlessly hateful sex offender laws (i.e. http://www.cfcamerica.org).

But then I got to thinking. With sex offenders being so low down on the totem pole, it is easy to violate their rights. People say they hate sex offenders or want them killed and it hardly raises an eyebrow these days. All other groups of people have the right to refuse a polygraph and the usually the worst case scenario would be that they are not allowed to get a job somewhere or someone stops trusting them. Sex offenders are the only people who are required to take a polygraph and if they refuse they are sent to prison.

Every polygraph test has you sign that paper at the beginning. "I am not being forced to take this polygraph. No one has threatened to harm me if I don't go along with the polygraph." Such bullshit. I would sign a paper admitting that I was the Queen of Sheba if it kept me out of prison!

Even if you don't care about (or hate) sex offenders as a group, every aware citizen should know that as long as one group of people in a society are having their rights violated, the tools of oppression are being sharpened to be used on other groups, and more. For example some think that sex offenders should be forced to wear GPS units so the authorities can keep track of them. If that happens then maybe buglers might be next. Maybe all people on probation. Maybe all felons. There are dangerous ideas in our society that could lead to a totalitarian authoritarian government some day. It probably won't happen, but if it does you can bet that all the monitoring and controlling programs are going to be tested on criminals first, especially sex offenders.

We can't do much to stop people from hating sex offenders as a group. Hate is like religion, people have their views and it's pretty much pointless to try to talk them out of them. But we can warn against using the blind hate to justify using the polygraph on sex offenders. Maybe today it is only the sex offenders who are forced to agree to polygraph tests to stay out of prison, but soon it may be other groups. Soon it may be someone you love. Soon it may be you.

So preach on Kol!
Chuck

I am Kol, and I understand that people feel the need to hate. Nothing unites like a common enemy, and unfortunately many of our elected officials ride on the backs on the sex offender population through their election.

We live in a society that thrives on Mass Media Propoganda. A fear based media system. I think eventually that the media will oversaturate with sex offenders that they will  become desensitized, and another group will be targeted. It's irrelevant because its speculation.

For those who see themselves as Individuals should think about where they are basing their opinions on. Seriously think about where the source of the information comes from. Because Too many times in our society people will see something on T.V. or read it in the newspaper and deem it as fact. Validity of sources.

Chuckles has valid points, Hate is hard to get rid of when it's established, and we are treated as lessers when compared to any other class of offender. This is what Sensationalism has led to. When it dies down on one scene another will surely rise.

For example During the Mid 20th century being a Drug addict was horrible and aplorable. People that used were shunned and treated as lessers. But what happened? It lost it's touch. Now in the 21st century we can see shows devoted to addiction and recovery, addicts are often praised for their recovery now, and accepted into society as a person who is suffering from a disease...

Well it's a matter of time before it dies down, but it is the crowd and following of "sheeple" that will do what ever the media tells them.

So will we be ahead of the curve? Or are we going to follow the crowd and hate those who they tell us to hate.
The choice is upto you. At the minimum please know the information about the subjects that you hate.

It is nice to see such young minds working so well in recognizing the the socio-political ramifications of the present climate vis a vis sex offenders. In the 1950's we had McCarthyism. Ahh, I yearn for the classics, don't you? 'Reds' were under your bed and up your ass and if we didn't stop 'em (and I mean pronto, pal), then we'd all be eatin borscht and speakin rooski by the end of the year!

So, anything that was done against a commie rat, or someone suspected of being a commie rat, or someone who might maybe possibly know someone who had a friend who's uncle dated a commie rat, was AOK because we were protecting America, Land of the Free. So what if freedom took a little hit, who cares about their freedom, anyway, they're just commies.  J. Edgar and the rest of the paranoid right got away with just about anything, all in the name of protecting freedom.

But, people being what they are, folks got tired of the 'commie threat'. Enter, as you accurately noted, drug addicts. Reefer madness, LSD junkies, speed freaks and pill heads. Who cared about THEIR rights? After all, they were the flotsam of society. So what if maybe some guy who smoked a joint was imprisoned for 100 years? He'd probably go on to rape chihuahuas and stab babies anyway.

Well, that got old, too, and they tried .....pornography!!! Prosecuting the likes of Larry Flynt and anybody else who DARED to show *gasp* penises and vaginas actually touching. ohmysweetfuckingjesus!!! The country faced ruin!! Well, the public fell off that bandwagon in a New York minute, but wait!! Some bright-eyed bluenose came up with.......child molesters!!!!

Ho ho, they cried! Now WHO could be in favor of dirty, foul, disgusting child raping baby humping scum sucking goat roping PEDOPHILES!!! Nobody, that's who!! So more and more laws were passed, giving the Gubmint more and more control over the populace, under the guise of protecting us.

Ohh, gents and ladies, I could ramble on for hours, but you get the point. They start with the most loathsome fiends imaginable, and then the repression begins to trickle down to the more mundane individuals, but ones the Gov decides need to be "under control". Since 9/11 they've started on 'Terrorism'. Now it's legal (indeed, even desirable) to intern
American citizens in foreign countries (i.e. Cuba) and torture them, all in the name of Democracy. Paraphrased, this piece is from the aftermath of Nazi Germany:

"First they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Gypsies, but I was not a Gypsy, so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Catholics, but I was not a Catholic, so I did nothing.
Then they came for the dissenters, but I was not a dissenter, so I did nothing.
Then they came for me, and I cried out for help, for I was innocent. But there was no one left to help me.

Peace my brothers.

abusedbygov:

Very well said. Don't forget Lenny Bruce.

Quote from: stefano on Jun 08, 2011, 06:39 PMabusedbygov:

Very well said. Don't forget Lenny Bruce.

Amazing that we think so much alike!! After I posted this and re-read it, I noted to myself that I SHOULD have mentioned Lenny, god love him. He was driven to madness by a sanctimonious, self serving prosecution that did no one no good.

IDK about you guys but I been reading these threads for about 3-6 months and I'm sick and tired of people being so dam passive you all say you want change/abolish the polygraph well dammit lets put our heads together and try to figure something out. I for one know that all treatment/polygraph is nothing more then away for them to make money and stay in business anyone else who believes otherwise hasn't walked in these shoes!! So maybe we try to figure out something otherwise how does change come about? It sure won't be the politicians or the flawed system. I mean it's almost like people are waiting for something to happen, we all know that just won't happen!!

Quote from: anon12345 on Mar 27, 2012, 09:55 AMI mean it's almost like people are waiting for something to happen, we all know that just won't happen!! 

Anon,
I don't see the polygraph being abolished anytime soon. But what you can do is take away its "power" by exposing the folly--just as Toto did when he pulled back the curtain.

Yeah probably so, but If I see any opening we need to jump on it. I just wish their were some Ideas to throw around...the only thing I can think of is to get in front of the Politicians!!

anon12345

Forget it. It has been in front of politicains. The only way they would be interested is if thay had to take and pass one in order to keep their office. I have taken them down this road and they won't even answer my letters.

Quote from: Twoblock on Mar 31, 2012, 08:15 PManon12345

Forget it. It has been in front of politicains. The only way they would be interested is if thay had to take and pass one in order to keep their office. I have taken them down this road and they won't even answer my letters.

Well I wasn't like talking about letters, i was talking more like in front of their arses now I know most of you have a lot to lose I'm talking about ppl here who know their Innocent and beat the system!!

anon 12345

I assumed that you were still talking about abolishing the polygraph. I assure you I have nothing to gain or lose by fighting to abolish the poly. I have been fighting government corruption and control for over 50 years. Good luck to you if you are trying to get a face to face meeting with ANY of your Washington poluted-ticians. They don't give a damn what you or their other constituantes want. They are only interested in pushing their own agendas. Your time would be better spent in trying to mobilize the masses to kick them out of office and put in new ones who will become idiots after a little while in office.

BTW - I draw no party lines when it comes to corruption.

Quote from: Twoblock on Apr 01, 2012, 12:08 PManon 12345

I assumed that you were still talking about abolishing the polygraph. I assure you I have nothing to gain or lose by fighting to abolish the poly. I have been fighting government corruption and control for over 50 years. Good luck to you if you are trying to get a face to face meeting with ANY of your Washington poluted-ticians. They don't give a damn what you or their other constituantes want. They are only interested in pushing their own agendas. Your time would be better spent in trying to mobilize the masses to kick them out of office and put in new ones who will become idiots after a little while in office.

BTW - I draw no party lines when it comes to corruption.

How about we have some constructive Ideas? Maybe that will get the ball rolling?

anon12345

Other than getting a face to face with poluted-ticians, let's have some of your brilliant ideas. Maybe they would be more constructive than this. If you don't know it yet, elected officials only believe in numbers. One idea maybe would be to start a petition. I belong to a few websites that send hundreds of thousands of petitions covering different things of a conservative nature to Washington. We get results. However, none of these websites are interested in tackling the abolishment of the poly. Just thought I would throw out another constructive idea.

Just read this thread. I have an idea, and hopefully you guys can help me flesh it out more. What about making an informational post for Facebook? If someone could find a petion website or just start our own petion (not sure exactly how that works electronically but might know someone that does) we could add that to the end. Topics can spread like wildfire on Facebook. At the very least we could spread awareness of the problems of polygraph testing. Just a thought.

There are so many people that are in this mess, you would think that eventually there will be more of "us" than "them".
I am talking about everyone, including all the families and children of the convicted ones who are being hurt by these ridiculous penalties! Let people move on and recover. Quit this lifetime probation, polygraph, registration nonsense! With all the websites and complaining why are we still losing? I suffer in silence all the time.  :-X I wish I could get together more families and start informing legislators what it does to the innocent loved ones trapped in this hell with the (I hate to use this label) "SO".

Please take the poll...it will be interesting! Add comments if  you can...

Darn... I forgot to add the victims to the poll...the victims are in our family so they suffer the "no contact," what a nightmare for the coming and going of everyone! UGH! 8 yrs later..they work up to being able to have contact  and then they take it away...Even they think this is stupid! Go figure... and no one listens to them. PS. We like to call ourselves survivors now! 

You may wish to think about the "Victims".  Holding yourself up as a victim indicates to me that you need protection.  The OFFENDER that created this nightmare is the one you are holding out to be a victim (of the system).  I have sympathy for you and your family and hold your significant other responsible for your current plight.  He and he alone is responsible for this victimization of you and your family.  Let him bear that load, walk away from any guilt, you did nothing wrong, he is totally responsible for his actions. 

Treatment providers and probation/parole officers are there to protect you and the rest of society from further victimization. 

Bill,
This is very well put, sane and thought provoking, thankyou.

Bill,

After some reflection, I find that this is somewhat idealistic. I'm very aware of the containment model, where probation/parole officers work in concert with treatment providers and polygraphers. Ostensibly, it sounds like a nice idea, but in practice, you have many probation/parole officers who are complete jerks, treatment providers whose methodologies are still embryonic and many polygraphers who possess unprofessional attributes demonstrated by the vile and silly comments in this forum. There seems to be an imbalance in this triad as more weight appears to be given to the polygrapher and his opinions, often resulting in revocation, therein lies the injustice.

So, yes, the offender must take responsibility, but they are human, and humans can only endure so many onerous conditions, which can reach a point where they contribute to the pathology rather than the treatment.

In order to reintegrate them into society, they must be have some remnant of human dignity, not stigmatized, as many in society would prefer that they be put into concentration camps. I have long believed that those who hate sex offenders the most, are the ones who have their own share of skeletons in the closet.

Stefano,

We agree on several points, and I don't "Hate" sex offenders myself.  I do hold them responsible for their acts.  I disagree with our justice system requiring lifetime probation and polygraphs.  As with any other crime, there should be a set  number of months or years dependent on the seriousness of the offense.  The exception to this would be repeat offenders that do not learn from past behaviors.  Some jurisdictions have these guidelines. 

An offender that is progressing in treatment should be given more responsibility in interacting with members of his family and the interactions should be monitored to insure there are no violations.  The family should also be in treatment to learn how to protect against further victimization and how to recognize the thinking errors of their family member   Again the treatment provider should have the final word on this, not a probation/parole officer and definitely not a polygraph examiner. 

As I have often repeated, polygraph is only a tool and should never be used as a final determinant of any life changing decision.  Probation/parole should conduct inquiries and find facts along with the treatment providers recommendations.  Polygraph only points these individuals in the direction of a possible infraction, and it is the responsibility of the rest of that team to find the true facts.  Admissions in a polygraph examination to violations of treatment or probation should be used and the offender should be held accountable.  This is why I audio/video all examination I conduct.  There is no debate if this condition is met. 

Yes we do agree that sexual offenders are humans and should be treated fairly, not as less than human and stigmatized further. They are accountable and they have made victims of their families and significant others.  A family should be treated with the utmost respect and all efforts to assist them should be made by "we the people" and all government agencies.  They deserve no less. 

A side note:  I was involved in sex offender treatment as a polygraph examiner in my early career.  I am currently not involved with treatment or containment of sex offenders.