Poll
Question: If you are going to a individual theripist that says you are not mentally capable of passing a polygraph can your probation officer still make you take it
I was a minor and had a partner just a couple years younger. and got hit with this. Im not trying to get away with anything, i just want to make sure i can remain free for the entirety of my parole.
What is the most common testing format. What is a good way to discern the control questions, because most of the testing seems a lot different from the polygraphs i have taken. Anyone have any good advice?
Go to the main page, and click on publications on the left hand menu. Download and read "The Lie Behind the Lie Detector." This is all you need.
I've read the book many times, but it still leaves me uneasy, because some of the tests i have taken i havent been able to tell what the control questions were. I figured that if i had a format that they use it would better my ability to recognize. Sometimes i think the control questions some polygraphers use are just to trick you into admitting if you relevant is too far below.
a side note to those who don't understand the sotp- Judge has rule. They believe what the council presents, My defense lawyer believes what ever my Sotp submits, and My sotp believes what ever the polygraph says.
The first test sex offenders are given is called the "full disclosure test." That is where you are asked to make a list of every sexual partner/sexual behavior you ever did. Then they ask you, "Other than the things you already admitted to, did you have any other sexual partners/acts?"
Once you have passed the first test and gone through treatment for a while you will get the other type of test, called "maintenance polygraph." They ask you what bad things you have done (say looked at pornography), and then ask you, "Other than those times you already admitted to, did you look at pornography any other times?"
Please understand that the polygraph does not give accurate results. You are not safe just because you already admitted everything. You need to get fully prepared to take the test. If you study the book "The lie behind the lie detector" (especially chapter 3 and 4) you will know how to recognize the different types of questions and how to respond to each one, but here are some examples from my polygraph test last month:
Before I got to the test I had already practiced shallow breathing (2-4 seconds per breath). I breathed out for a count of one, two and in for a count of three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Find a breathing pattern that works for you and practice it at least a few times before you go in there. It is actually kind of nice concentrating on your breathing and counting your breaths. Like meditation.
Irrelevant question: Is your name Chuckles?
Response: keep up the breathing pattern and say "yes" (keeping mind blank afterwards)
Control question: "Did you ever lie to get out of trouble?"
Response: think scary thoughts about getting my balls bitten off by a zombie and say "no," breathe funny and bite my tongue. Continue the augmentation until about time for the next question.
Relevant question: "Have you drank alcohol or used drugs since starting the program?"
Response: keep up the breathing pattern and say "no" (keeping mind blank afterwards)
That's it. If you are someone who has a hard time keeping his mind blank, then pick a nice thought to think during the blank mind times. Imagine petting a cat. Imagine floating in a warm pool on a quiet sunny day. If you use a calm thought, pick it before the test and practice it when you practice your breathing.
You will find when you take the test that the irrelevant questions are the easiest. All you do is answer the question and keep up the breathing pattern. The relevant questions are also easy. Just answer the way they want to hear and keep up the breathing pattern and calm thought. Once you have answered the question there is no need to dwell on the question at all. Just let it float away and concentrate on your breathing.
In contrast, the control questions are hard! For starters, the question is ambiguous, and the examiner may even tell you to lie (in order to see what you look like when you lie he may say). Plus you have to remember to think the scary thought and to slyly bite your tongue and to mess your breathing up according to your prepared plan. Am I doing it right? Did I augment enough? Did he see my mouth move? All that spinning through your mind will cause the squiggly things on the computer to be larger than the squiggly things corresponding to the relevant question, and that is the reason we augment.
My only other advice is to be confident. Read the suggestions in the book about how guilty liars look and how honest people look. Do NOT make excuses (I'm sick today. I have a nervous condition). Be well groomed, friendly and businesslike. Remember to be polite on the outside, but on the inside you can scoff at the foolish polygraph examiner. He is an moron who has chosen to waste his life traveling around trying to bully people with bullshit. Look down on him. Don't be afraid of his witch doctoring.
I am just at the point that i want to keep my freedom. I have taken quite a few maintainance polygraphs, thanks for your insights mr. chuckles. Any more information is great. Do they usually use a ZCQT? I did my full disclosure a while ago, it's just maintainance.
What is ZCQT?
Since you have taken so many maintainance polygraph exams, you already know what is up. After reading your question I think that you might be trying to figure out what questions will be asked and how to tell if they are a control question or not. I think it is very hard to predict what the exact control questions might be, but they are fairly easy to recognize. A control question is a question that is usually hard to pin down an answer to, and even if you answered differently on the question you wouldn't be in trouble.
For example, "Did you ever lie to get out of trouble" is a good control question. It is vague and even if it were discovered that sometime (maybe 10 years ago) you lied to get out of trouble, it would not get you into trouble today.
In contrast, "Did you lie to your parole officer in the past year," would be a relevant question, because it is more specific and if it were discovered that you lied to your parole officer in the last year you would be in trouble.
Another example, "Did you ever take something that wasn't yours," would be a good control question, because it is very general dd, if me spetek &nb
Yeah you are completely right mr. chuckles, I cam across this website after they granted me internet permission. As for ZCQT is zone control question test, it's a test that is under the control question test. I just want to make sure I apply the counter measures properly. I don't want any prolbems. And as for others, we may have a problem, but we are still human bro, we are in treatment to get better, just sometimes they have rules that are ridiculous, ya know?
isn't that nice- one convicted sex offender helping another. George must be very proud. Wouldn't it be funny if one of these offenders "beats" his PCSOT poly then rapes the child of one of George's followers? Or even one of George's kids? What poetic justice THAT would be.
Sorry about the garbled end to my last post, guess I fell asleep while I was writing ::). Thanks for clarifying ZCQT, tho I will probably forget it by the next poly. I don't want to know the terminology, that way I can't mistakenly use it in during a polygraph exam and make the examiner suspicious. Mentioning ZCQT during an exam would be like mentioning a flux capacitor in front of Marty McFly - he would instantly know that you know more than you should.
I am like you. I still have my problems and struggles and I actually do try to participate in the program and try to learn about myself and become a better person. I really don't have that many beefs about the program in general, except for them requiring the polygraph exams.
Quote from: Chuckles on Mar 20, 2011, 11:43 AM
I am like you. I still have my problems and struggles and I actually do try to participate in the program and try to learn about myself and become a better person.
You actually "do try to participate in the program"? Is that like you actually do try not to rape or sodomize children? What you need is forced sterilization!
Hey quickfix,
There was a time when I tried to pass the polygraph exam by telling the truth. Actually two exams I told the truth and was found to be "deceptive." I got into a shit load of trouble over that, which made me very resentful towards my therapists and towards people who tell me that the polygraph is almost always reliable. They wasted many hours of our therapy group sessions guessing what it was that I must have lied about. They threatened me and disrespected me and pissed me off so much that I thought about quitting the group and just finishing my time in prison and then reentering society without any forced therapy requirements.
I did not learn how to do counter measures to get away with anything. I didn't follow the rules because I thought I would get into trouble if I broke them. I followed the rules because I am trying to build a new life for myself that does not include drugs, alcohol, pornography, prostitutes or any of the stuff that they ask us to stay away from. I am trying to make myself into a better person.
I am the kind of person that the polygraph really screws over. The kind of person who tries his best to be as honest as possible, who would rather admit to the most petty little bad thought than have an reservations going in to the polygraph test. I went crazy preparing for the polygraph and went even more crazy when I was attacked for not passing it. If it hadn't been for someone mentioning antipolygraph.org on reddit.com, I would still have no idea how they work and I might not have passed my last one.
But people who are big liars don't wait until they fail a couple of polygraph tests to look it up. They are rewarded with a quickness because google it right off and learn how to use countermeasures before their first test. This is one of the biggest drawbacks to the polygraph test - honest people who trust it are likely to fail, while big liars who do their homework are likely to pass it.
The rape of children is a terrible and sad crime. You sound like you take it pretty lightly and wish it on other people. I don't know you, but I have a feeling you could stand to work on your empathy. I could be wrong, maybe you were just trying to make a point.
Quote from: quickfix on Mar 20, 2011, 11:41 AMisn't that nice- one convicted sex offender helping another.George must be very proud.Wouldn't it be funny if one of these offenders "beats" his PCSOT poly then rapes the child of one of George's followers?Or even one of George's kids?What poetic justice THAT would be.
Your comments are typical of the prevailing witch hunt mentality. I'm not sure who I would trust my kids with more, a sex offender in treatment or an individual with such hate and anger bubbling just below the surface.
I believe the lack of education on the behalf of most people. It leads to this mentality, when every politician rides on the backs of sex offenders to get elected. Tough on RSO sells. Our news and media uses this same propoganda to get ratings. But so is our society. Even though The reoffend rating of sex offenders is about 7%, and the only class of offenders less likely to offend are murderers. Statistically speaking.
It's easy to hate sex offenders, and it's easy to lump all offenders as predatory and pedofilic. Thats a small minority of offenders.
I hope that quickfix can get the help they need.
Side note as well. A reason polygraphy is used with offenders, is because the fear of going away reduces reoffending.
That fear is unhealthy for most people, especially those with pre existing mental health conditions often get worse.
koi and chuckles
You may not know that quickfix is a polygraph operator. He has posted on these boards many times. I don't remember him being this vile before though. However the brain is as old as the body and sometimes we forget.
That doesn't surprise me, thank you for bringing that to my attention.
There is no 'standard'.
It's a bunch of witch doctor voodoo science. I can tell you I straight up 'lied' on my poly's, some of which I passed and some of which I failed.
lolz.
Seriously. At what? 200-250 a pop (American Dollars), it's a great little scheme that pays the rent/bills. Mix that in with 'Sex Offender' treatment and you got a perfect little playing field.
This whole forum is gonna be a interesting read.
And the best thing? I never used any 'countermeasures'. It's all about the questions that were being asked.
Half-truths/Half-lies.
Gotta admit though, at about 25k worth of bills later (OH, EXCUSE ME, I meant 25k of financial ass-rape), it's quite the racket.
Some of these 'Treatment Providers' and 'Polygraphers' should be brought up on RICO violations/offenses.
Hell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated'. Much less how they share that 'information'/'software'.
Quote from: antipolygraphrso on Apr 12, 2011, 10:46 PMHell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated'
antipolygraphrso
Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM).
Do I understand you to say you paid 25k for a sexual offender treatment program?
Did it work?
Quote from: pailryder on Apr 16, 2011, 07:03 AMQuote from: antipolygraphrso on Apr 12, 2011, 10:46 PMHell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated'
antipolygraphrso
Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM).
Do I understand you to say you paid 25k for a sexual offender treatment program?
Did it work?
Yea, easily 25k. Work? I'll pleasure you with a response. Haha, er, no. Not even sure why I was in there to begin with. Not for some chump ass misdemeanor. Define 'work'. What exactly was I supposed to 'learn' there?
It's ok though, guy like you (or gals for that matter, lets be gender neutral) make your money either way.
Like I said, the 'system' got their cash, and you guys yours, so it's all good.
Just remember that people (at least me) have VERY long memories.
Oh, and if I learned anything in 'Sex Offender' treatment, it was patience. The time will come. Most assuredly.
Quote from: pailryder on Apr 16, 2011, 07:03 AMantipolygraphrso
Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM).
It's a misnomer to state that polygraphists calibrate their instruments. They only check to see if they are within the manufacturer's specifications. Calibration requires setting the parameters to an established known standard; this is usually done by a technician who knows how to make the amplifier gain adjustments.
Also, since the measurements made with the polygraph instruments are not quantitative, precise calibration is not crucial.
ASTM E2063-05(2011) Stand Practice for Calibration and Functionally Check used in Forensic Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (Polygraph) Examinations
Quote from: pailryder on Apr 18, 2011, 02:56 PMASTM E2063-05(2011)Stand Practice for Calibration and Functionally Check used in Forensic Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (Polygraph) Examinations
What it boils down to is ensuring you have at least an inch and half needle swing for a quarter inch of pnuemo bellows expansion, the same swing for a 2 mmHG change on the sphygmomanometer, and a quarter inch swing for every 2,000 ohms of skin resistance change. This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge.
This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge.
I am surprised to find anyone remembering what a feeler gauge was. It was the only way of setting your points and plugs in the "Old Days".
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Apr 18, 2011, 10:12 PM
This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge.
I am surprised to find anyone remembering what a feeler gauge was. It was the only way of setting your points and plugs in the "Old Days".
If I recall, I remember a feeler gauge from working on old school VW's. So yea, your not alone.
Quote from: stefano on Apr 18, 2011, 05:40 PMWhat it boils down to is ensuring you have at least an inch and half needle swing for a quarter inch of pnuemo bellows expansion
Really, I have never seen a polygraph needle. Perhaps you have a picture of one? Or maybe you mean a pen? You do know that the collection systems have been computerized since the 90's.
Quote from: pailryder on Apr 19, 2011, 08:28 AMReally, I have never seen a polygraph needle.Perhaps you have a picture of one?Or maybe you mean a pen? You do know that the collection systems have been computerized since the 90's.
This indicative of 14 weeks of polygraph examiner training versus 11 years in the study of psycho-physiology. All you know is what was taught to you. Yes I am quite aware of computerized polygraphs. How well do you understand the discriminate analysis theory used in the algorithms?
Quote from: stefano on Apr 19, 2011, 01:48 PMThis indicative of 14 weeks of polygraph examiner training versus 11 years in the study of psycho-physiology
I guess that needle pricked someone's inflated ego. You, stefano, know nothing about my education, polygraph or otherwise, so why try to make a personal attack?
stefano
I apologize for that last post. Sometimes I get caught up in the combative nature of the postings on this site.
I do respect your opinion and I am very interested in your evaluation of the discriminate analysis theory used in the scoring algorithms.
Quote from: pailryder on Apr 20, 2011, 08:18 AMI apologize for that last post.Sometimes I get caught up in the combative nature of the postings on this site.
No apology necessary--as David Hume said, it is our emotion that gives impetus to our ethics. I work with a myriad of instruments that both record and simply indicate--"needle swing" is a generic jargon I'm used to using for any kind of indicator movement, including digital read outs.
Pailryder, please don't stop posting. You are one of the few polygraphists here who actually have an open discerning mind. I enjoy my exchanges with you.
stefano
I have been a member this website since its inception and I have found two polygraphers that make honest, intelligent and sincere posts. They are pailryder and, years ago, Public Servant. I have often wondered if they are one and the same.
I became pretty good friends here with Public Servant. I offered him a moose hunt in Alaska but he could never take me up on it. Little bit late now since I'm closing down my mining operations and retiring. I'm 80 yrs. young now and my wife of 58 years says we need to see some of the world. I have seen a lot of it so maybe I can show her where I've been. I hope to get over to see George one day.
No, Twoblock, I am not Public Servant, but best wishes on your retirement and travels.
pailryder
Thanks. I will keep physically active because I can't let these old bones and muscles deteriorate so I'm still in the gym pumping iron and riding my bike when the weather is good. May want to climb a couple more mountains before I cash out.
I'm new on here but was just notified that I am to take a polygraph and make a "full sexual disclosure" lolz. Jesus, these people are out of their fucking minds!!! "Did I ever plan with someone to dig up a grave and ABUSE A CORPSE??" "Have I ever DELIBERATELY masturbated to fantasies of pre pubescent children?" (How does one 'accidently' masturbate?).
"Do I have sex with DEAD ANIMALS!!!!!" My 'crime' was bullshitting with some lying dog on the internet who was bullshitting me. Evidently, they are allowed, whilst I am held to a higher standard. I am nervous as hell and have no good feeling about the outcome of this "test".
Quote from: abusedbygov on Jun 07, 2011, 04:33 PMMy 'crime' was bullshitting with some lying dog on the internet who was bullshitting me. Evidently, they are allowed
I'm curious to know what you mean by this. Are you referring to one of those lazy cops that cannot get up off their asses to catch real criminals in the street and have to pose as 13 year olds online to catch Iowa corn farmers who want to talk dirty?
Quote from: stefano on Jun 08, 2011, 12:25 AMI'm curious to know what you mean by this. Are you referring to one of those lazy cops that cannot get up off their asses to catch real criminals in the street and have to pose as 13 year olds online to catch Iowa corn farmers who want to talk dirty?
Oh yes indeedy, my perspicacious friend. Only, in my case, it went a whole lot deeper. It was the owner of perverted-justice.com, NOT a cop, just a wild-eyed fanatical Jesus loving GAWD fearing jizzbone. I knew it wasn't a 13 yr. old, and THEY knew I knew it wasn't a 13 yr. old, yet they tracked me down and boom! That was it.
My question, though, is this: I am federal (the computer made it federal jurisdiction)--are these pre-tests (and, by inference, the upcoming polygraph) case-specific? Or are they standardized? Has anyone else been through these kinds of inane, ludicrous, moronic tests??
The questions are absurd. "Have I ever been to a strip club?" Really? If you say 'yes', then you must explain. Uhh, well, gorgeous naked young women writhing like reptilian goddesses in my lap?? Is THAT a good explanation?? I'm thinkin if they NEED an explanation, they ain't gonna get the idea, y'know?
Oh, here's a classic!! "Have you ever pleaded, begged, paid or otherwise
coerced a woman to have sex??????????? Yeah. Are paying and begging the same thing? Really? Once again, answer 'yes' and I must explain.
"Uhh, the one with the vagina gets to decide when, how, with whom and IF sex will happen. The one with the penis begs, pleads, snivels, whines, wheedles cajoles, farts and tapdances and MAYBE gets some.
I'm sorry, who's the pervert?
Quote from: abusedbygov on Jun 08, 2011, 04:59 PMNOT a cop, just a wild-eyed fanatical Jesus loving GAWD fearing jizzbone.
I know where you are coming from, but IMHO, Jesus would be just as disgusted with their antics.
Quote from: abusedbygov on Jun 07, 2011, 04:33 PM"full sexual disclosure"
I think you answered your own question with your question. Full Sexual Disclosure is not event specific. It is full disclosure.
Quote from: stefano on Apr 18, 2011, 02:30 PMQuote from: pailryder on Apr 16, 2011, 07:03 AMantipolygraphrso
Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM).
It's a misnomer to state that polygraphists calibrate their instruments. They only check to see if they are within the manufacturer's specifications. Calibration requires setting the parameters to an established known standard; this is usually done by a technician who knows how to make the amplifier gain adjustments.
Also, since the measurements made with the polygraph instruments are not quantitative, precise calibration is not crucial.
My father works with quite a few engineers that will tell you it's quack science. He even contacted my PO (at the time I was on probation) to get the 'standards' in question, to which there was no response.
Quote from: abusedbygov on Jun 07, 2011, 04:33 PMI'm new on here but was just notified that I am to take a polygraph and make a "full sexual disclosure" lolz. Jesus, these people are out of their fucking minds!!! "Did I ever plan with someone to dig up a grave and ABUSE A CORPSE??" "Have I ever DELIBERATELY masturbated to fantasies of pre pubescent children?" (How does one 'accidently' masturbate?).
"Do I have sex with DEAD ANIMALS!!!!!" My 'crime' was bullshitting with some lying dog on the internet who was bullshitting me. Evidently, they are allowed, whilst I am held to a higher standard. I am nervous as hell and have no good feeling about the outcome of this "test".
You should have seen some of the questions on the 'prescreen questionarre' thingy I did before I was even sentenced.
Corpse fucking? Really?
Also the 'Abel' test. lol, some of the questions.
"Is a womans urinary tract in her vagina?' (or something of that nature).
Heh, considering the fact I don't sleep with women, the only response I could make was 'Why don't you go get an anatomy book and tell me, or let me find out here, kthxbye.'
Quote from: abusedbygov on Jun 08, 2011, 04:59 PMQuote from: stefano on Jun 08, 2011, 12:25 AMI'm curious to know what you mean by this. Are you referring to one of those lazy cops that cannot get up off their asses to catch real criminals in the street and have to pose as 13 year olds online to catch Iowa corn farmers who want to talk dirty?
Oh yes indeedy, my perspicacious friend. Only, in my case, it went a whole lot deeper. It was the owner of perverted-justice.com, NOT a cop, just a wild-eyed fanatical Jesus loving GAWD fearing jizzbone. I knew it wasn't a 13 yr. old, and THEY knew I knew it wasn't a 13 yr. old, yet they tracked me down and boom! That was it.
My question, though, is this: I am federal (the computer made it federal jurisdiction)--are these pre-tests (and, by inference, the upcoming polygraph) case-specific? Or are they standardized? Has anyone else been through these kinds of inane, ludicrous, moronic tests??
The questions are absurd. "Have I ever been to a strip club?" Really? If you say 'yes', then you must explain. Uhh, well, gorgeous naked young women writhing like reptilian goddesses in my lap?? Is THAT a good explanation?? I'm thinkin if they NEED an explanation, they ain't gonna get the idea, y'know?
Oh, here's a classic!! "Have you ever pleaded, begged, paid or otherwise coerced a woman to have sex??????????? Yeah. Are paying and begging the same thing? Really? Once again, answer 'yes' and I must explain.
"Uhh, the one with the vagina gets to decide when, how, with whom and IF sex will happen. The one with the penis begs, pleads, snivels, whines, wheedles cajoles, farts and tapdances and MAYBE gets some.
I'm sorry, who's the pervert?
Xavier Von Erck?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverted-Justice
Yea, I've heard of PJ. Also, you should have seen how Wikipedia treated him. He actually got into some 'flame war' with them over what was being posted.
Ahhh, yes, here it is...
http://www.corrupted-justice.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10897&sid=03fc106a3b6bd1083e502ce7d6730a8d
Wiki nailed him because Wikipedia was a 'haven for teh pedoz.'
That guy is slime, and the worst part is, if I ever came across him, I would wipe the floor with his fucking Mountain Dew chugging fat ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjwtmw_sAk0
Thats a Youtube of him.
i have a girl i like a lot and my po wants me to wait till we meet i have not been in trouble in a long time welll since prison and i reallly want to meet this girl not see one picture of her when do you think my po will let me see her and trust this good for me ? :(
Mark, following the instructions of your PO is more important than meeting a girl. Focus on getting your life and personal act together before adding a relationship to the equation. IMHO.
If you are going to a individual theripist that says you are not mentally capable of passing a polygraph can your probation officer still make you take it
QuoteIf you are going to a individual theripist that says you are not mentally capable of passing a polygraph can your probation officer still make you take it
The law governing post-conviction polygraph screening varies from state to state. It would be best to consult with a local attorney with experience in criminal defense law on this question.