recently the store i work at got robbed.. and now the cops want me and another person to take the voice stress test. What can they do if i refuse to take the test. I'm extremely offended that they only asked two of us to take it....
innocent1
You cannot be required to take any kind of lie detector test and the CVSA is less reliable than the polygraph. Just tell them that the CEO of the company that makes them stated in court that the CVSA has NO ability to detect truth or lies and you will not take part in such quackery. Refuse to take it.
If they had any hard evidence, they wouldn't be asking you to take the test. You would have already been arrested.
thanks.. now i'm just worried that i'll be fired on suspicion..
The police cannot force you to submit to a voice stress analysis "test," or to any lie detector test of any kind. You can and should refuse. These "tests" have no scientific basis. In the context of criminal investigations, they typically serve as little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect without a lawyer present, as the suspect is falsely led to believe that (s)he is simply submitting to a scientific test for truth.
In this regard, it is worth noting that Charles Humble, the man behind the most commonly used voice stress analyzer -- like several poobahs of the polygraph community -- has falsely passed himself off as a Ph.D. in marketing his services. Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3E_2KTxI0) this ABC News exposé:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3E_2KTxI0
The fact that police have asked you to submit to such a bogus test is a strong indication that you are considered a suspect in the case. Sometimes, people who handle cash falsely report robberies and take the money themselves, or willingly hand cash to a partner who stages a robbery.
I think it would be prudent to seek legal counsel and not submit to further questioning without your lawyer present. If you feel the need to explain your decision to refuse the "test," you can state that you've learned that it's junk science. Feel free to refer any who question your judgment to this website.
If you need help finding a criminal defense attorney near you, Martindale's free Lawyer Locator service may be helpful:
http://www.martindale.com
Quote from: Innocent1 on Mar 23, 2008, 02:15 AMrecently the store i work at got robbed.. and now the cops want me and another person to take the voice stress test. What can they do if i refuse to take the test. I'm extremely offended that they only asked two of us to take it....
If it were me, I would say sure, I'll take your test. Then, when the operator asks you to sign a release of liability holding him harmless for professional negligence, refuse to sign that. Explain that while you are willing to take the test, you are not willing to give up your legal right to sue, in the event the test is not correct.
What will occur, is that they will refuse to test you. But, it will likely not get that far, because the real thief will not agree to take the test to begin with, so the suspicion will be shifted to them, and off of you.
Hi, Sorry to hear you find yourself in a similar situation as I did, meaning being accused of a crime you didn' commit.
I went ahead and took the Polygraph test since I felt I had nothing to hide.
Please take the advice of George and even nonpolycop's suggestion seems good.
You see the problem is that those test measure responses to questions ( not lies per se) so if as you say your very offended by being one of only 2 to be accused you WILL most likely have a reaction to the questions asked regarding the crime. I did even though I was totally truthfull.
Now, your going to hear from Sackett ( a poligraph examiner with an attitude) he will insist that you just go in there and tell the truth. Though that may work since the machine has no way of knowing if your telling the truth it is a coin toss. I lost mine.
The good part is that the test results are not admissable in court and even if your state allows it there is no judge that would convict you based on te test results.
The bad part is that at this point you seem damed if you do and damed if you don't.
George is a wealth of information on this.
I have been accused of "keying" a car, defacing it with profanity, scratching it. I have an aliby for the night but the people are lying and saying they saw me do it. It has been about 2 months since I have been accused and the police have not arrested me but have told me they can make me take a polygraph. Can they make me? I failed one in the past. They ask me a simple question like are my eyes brown, which they are and it said I was lying. Also when ask my full name it said I was lying. I have very bad nerves! I still got the job. Don't you think that they have waited an awfully long time to prosecute me? These are also people that dislike me very much. What can I do? I didn't do it and I have an aliby.
The police can not FORCE you to take a polygraph, or question you without legal representation if you request it. Just to make sure, call an attorney.
They probably do not have enuf to prosecute you, so they are resorting to getting you to take a polygraph so they can force a confession out of you. Refuse, and DON'T sign anything!
TC
i called an anonymous aware line at a company using someone else's name that worked there, now the cops called my phone asking me to take a polygraph if further investigation is required? can they make me? and can i be prosecuted? :D
Check with an attorney, but i am pretty sure that.........you can not be forced to take a polygraph. But if you do refuse, they'll probably at least insinuate that you must have something to hide if you are afraid to take a polygraph. Which is BS. There is NO logical basis for such an insinuation.
You could then just respectfully tell them you researched the polygraph, and found out, to your surprise, that it is NOT a scientifically valid test, and that your attorney informed you you have a LEGAL right to decline taking the test. If they THEN persist and get nasty about it, politely ask them to take it up with your attorney.
TC
We were told that if we didn't agree to take the test then they would get a court order to make us take it. Can the police do that?
Call their bluff.
Tell them to go get their order if they can.
I have a very strong feeling they won't be able to find a judge willing to sign one.
Even if they could find a judge to sign the order compelling you to take the test, your inability to refuse the exam would render anything you said during the process inadmissable in a criminal prosecution absent a VOLUNTARY waiver of your Miranda rights.
When you have the police threatening a court order for a polygraph you need to get a lawyer. Something is very wrong. States that have Polygraph licensing laws forbid forcing someone to take a polygraph test. A local Lawyer can review your entire situation and then advise you much better than any opinions you read here that are based only on the limited information you can provide.
A Lawyer can also say things to the police on your behalf that you might be reluctant to say, like "UP YOURS".
You won't regret the money you spend hiring one if the situation is really as you described.
The police can not get an order for you to take any polygraph test they can get orders for fingerprints, dna hair samples etc. It would be in your best interest to exercise your right to remain silent and contact an attorney. If they charge you with an offense then you will have avoided any comments made during teh polygraph test (which are admissable)..if your are not charged then you can go on about your business
gary daivs
my step father and my mother have gotten ourselves involved in court regarding nothing but false statements and lies. my step father is accusing me of being physal on 2 occasions. he has marked himself and is accusing me and my mother of making these marks on him.
so my main question is this. i am 16 years old and me and my mother were wondering if in court the judge could force us to take any kind of lie detector tests. do we have a right to say no?
Read the above posts.
NO PERSON can be required to take a lie dector test. If the judge is honest, he will know this. Besides, you're a minor.
I really hate what your family is doing to each other. I recommend you seek out help from a family counselor or clergy (if applicable). There is some deep rooted problem here that needs compassion and understanding, not polygraphs and judges. Life is short--all of you need to put more love into your hearts and work this out.
;D I believe you are most likely guilty. However, the sheer fact that you are posting on this wall clearly answers your own question. NOONE CAN MAKE ANYONE TAKE A POLYGRAPH. If you had been made to take the test and your answers were of any true legal consequence, most likely you would be behind bars where access to this site is probably not on the daily activity guide. Just do right and you'll never have these concerns.
In Massachusetts can you be forced to take a lie detector test? Can you refuse to take one?
can i go to jail for false statement even tho it isnt false just worded wrong. can the cops make me take a lie detector test.what happens if i take it can they use the results in court can i go to jail
Quotecan i go to jail for false statement even tho it isnt false just worded wrong. can the cops make me take a lie detector test.what happens if i take it can they use the results in court can i go to jail
Tiffany, I'm sure most competent people on this website would tell you to speak to a lawyer. The moderator often suggests this website: http://www.martindale.com/
Good luck.
Tiffany, depending on the circumstances, yes, it is possible to go to jail for a false statement. But the police cannot compel you to submit to a lie detector "test," and you would be wise to refuse. If the police had enough evidence to charge you with a crime, they wouldn't be asking you to take a lie detector test.
The "test" is often just a pretext for getting a suspect into an interrogation room without a lawyer present. Interrogation methods can be deceptive, manipulative, and coercive. Innocent people have gone to jail because they falsely confessed after being accused of deception on the polygraph.
As Stefano indicated, you really should get a criminal defense lawyer and not speak any further with the police without your lawyer at your side.
thank you for your advice however i have been to a lawyer but just cant afford one. what are my options without one.
Don't submit to any offer of a polygraph "test" and don't speak any further with the police. At all. If you are charged with a crime and cannot afford a lawyer, a public defender will be appointed for you.
For more on why not to speak with the police, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
I got a phone call a little bit ago from the police. I am being accused of takeing someones pain medication! They want me to come down to the station tommorow to take a polygraph test.. My question is do i have to take it? An if i dont what is the consiqences if i dont take it? An if i dont when they ask me if im ready to take what do i tell them when i say im not takeing it?
Quote from: megan r 123 on Dec 11, 2011, 09:34 PMI got a phone call a little bit ago from the police. I am being accused of takeing someones pain medication! They want me to come down to the station tommorow to take a polygraph test.. My question is do i have to take it? An if i dont what is the consiqences if i dont take it? An if i dont when they ask me if im ready to take what do i tell them when i say im not takeing it?
Megan,
No, you do not have to take the polygraph "test" and you would be wise to refuse it (even if you initially agreed). Your refusal to submit to this fraudulent "test" is not admissible as evidence in a court of law. If the police had enough evidence to arrest you, they would have already done so. You don't have to offer any explanation as to why you're refusing to take the polygraph, but you might mention that you've read the information available on this website.
In any event, as the videos linked in this message thread discuss, you would be wise not only to not take the polygraph, but to not speak further with the police without a lawyer at your side.
this crazy lady is trying to press charges on my mom and i bc she came over and fell asleep then left then forgot her purse here so she came back to get it. but now she claims she had $140 and thinks one of us stole it, can she make us take a lie detector test over that? we'll take it, but its very offensive especially if my mom was asleep and i was in my room on the phone.
a guys wallet was stolen from work and out of the 5 of us the cops want us to take a polygraph!!! i refused and now people at work point there fingers at me as if i did it! should of i have taken it? because i feel I'm going to lose my job! ALSO do it look bad if the other for guys said yes and all passed do it make me the bad guy for refusing? >:(
D.B.,
You made the right decision. Polygraphy is a pseudoscientific fraud. It is inherently unreliable, and as used by police, it is little more than a ruse for getting a gullible suspect to submit to an interrogation without a lawyer present.
You may indeed come under suspicion for refusing the polygraph. And more so if allthe others who agreed to be polygraphed "pass" this bogus "test."
However, the Employee Polygraph Protection Act (http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/eppa.html) (EPPA) prohibits private sector employers from taking any adverse action against an employee on the basis of polygraph results alone (or on the basis of an employee's refusal to submit to a polygraph interrogation).
Employers who violate the EPPA can be held liable for substantial damages. You may want to seek out a lawyer with experience in labor law.
Dear Readers,
How sad that it is almost ten years beyond my polygraph "witch hunt" and I still keep reading about present days horrors concerning this device.
The bottom line: it is only as effective as the you believe it is.
Ten years later and the perpetuation of the "polygraph examiner myth" that they can detect truth from lies is still going on. Science is no closer than ten years ago in its ability to tell truth from deception using breathing, heart rate, and perspiration measurements.
Sit back, sip a good cup of coffee or a shot of Jim and think about the concept of someone being able to develop a thread of fact that somehow measures those body reactions.
A groom to be at his wedding is sweating profusely to the point that the priest offers him a towel to wipe his sweaty palms before the mass. Is he going to lie about his proposed lifetime of commitment? Maybe, just maybe, he realizes what a lifetime of commitment is and he is sweating over his ability to fulfill such a daunting commitment. His sweat and anxiety have much more to do with his realization and personal honesty that this is a big deal and he wants it to work. He wants to fulfill his dreams and commitment to a woman of his dreams.
Thank God that we do not polygraph an applicant to get married before they are issued a license. I think the rejection rate would even surpass the FBI's rejection rate!
That is one polygraph for sure that I would have failed. My wife will attest that after twenty-five years of dedicated marriage, sweaty palms during a promise of fidelity are a good thing! It proved that I did have many apprehensions and emotions upon that day. My heart was beating quickly, my breathing was altered, and my palms were spewing moisture at every opportunity. Thank goodness I passed her background check first or I would have never stood a chance!
Regards.
Quote from: Fair_Chance on Feb 13, 2012, 10:09 PMThank God that we do not polygraph an applicant to get married before they are issued a license. I think the rejection rate would even surpass the FBI's rejection rate!
Thanks for that thought provoking discourse F.C. A novel idea would be to suggest that all Members of Congress submit to a lifestyle polygraph "exam" and when they refuse ask them to explain their pecksniffian stance whereby it's prudent for federal officers, but inappropriate for those entrusted with the welfare of the nation.
I work for an alarm company and something was stolen from a jobsite. Over $10,000 worth, from what I'm told. The home owner is telling my boss,"either pay us the amount taken or go to court. They are saying that I personally took the item/s and not anyone else that was working in the house that same day, at the same time. My employer wants two of us to take a polygraph to prove our innocence to the client. Can I be forced to take it? Can I be fired for refusal? I had no issue with submitting until I actually did a little research and found out just how unreliable they are. Oh, and my beds also wants to keep this of court because his employees, including myself, are not in possession of a required security card which requires live scan/background check etc. so with that said, his insurance co.will not cover this. What do I do? Icant afford an attorney! Do I need one??
Any replies to SSK's question should be posted here:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=4961.msg36738#msg36738
I worked as a houseman, the lady of the house lost her diamond ring, I was not accused of that, some time later
I moved overseas. I requested my x employer for his help
as a co sponsor for a visa. First he was happy to do so.
Then when it came time for him to send me a document
he says that upon further consideration he contacted his attorney and the insurance company and wrote me that they told him I could not enter his house unless I take a polygraph test. The x employer says he wants his policy not cancelled or his rates not to go up.
On many occasions I and my wife as his house staff in past times found jewelry on the floor and returned such to the owner. Now the insurance company says (according to the employer) they want to know if I know anything about the stated lost diamond ring. Is it true that an insurance company would request a polygraph. I wrote the x employer
and stated why I would not take a polygraph and mentioned
he was insinuating I had stolen her ring. Now he says I should only have answered yes or no and says if he considers my request for his help I must respect his to take a test. Is this bribery or a trap?
Wolfgang,
You have nothing to gain by taking a polygraph. Simply give them your word of honor that you did not take the diamond ring. If that's not good enough for them, too bad.
anyone on here i have a ?
i do home care and have been with one family for 6 months. he just recently found out he is missing alot of things rings,necklaces,gold coins worth about 20,000 he says. he told me today he was going to make a police report today and ask if they was to ask me to take a lie detecter if i would?at first i said no problem now having time to think about it do i have to?i heard that they are not always accurate and if your under any stress you could fail it?i dont know what to do the guy himself said there is alot of people has access to get in his house college daughter n friends and doesnt know when the stuff came up missing. i feel like he his pointing the finger at me by asking me to take a test what should i do and do i have the right to refuse a test??
The police generally do not request a polygraph examination until they have done the investigation and narrowed down suspects to one or two. The owner of the missing property has no say in police polygraph procedures, the police investigators make those decisions.
Quote from: 61693E35350C0 on Oct 04, 2012, 05:23 PMi do home care and have been with one family for 6 months. he just recently found out he is missing alot of things rings,necklaces,gold coins worth about 20,000 he says. he told me today he was going to make a police report today and ask if they was to ask me to take a lie detecter if i would?at first i said no problem now having time to think about it do i have to?i heard that they are not always accurate and if your under any stress you could fail it?i dont know what to do the guy himself said there is alot of people has access to get in his house college daughter n friends and doesnt know when the stuff came up missing. i feel like he his pointing the finger at me by asking me to take a test what should i do and do i have the right to refuse a test??
You should not speak with the police. At all. At least not with a defense lawyer by your side. You have the right to refuse a polygraph "test" and you should exercise it. The "test" is a fraud. It's used as a ruse to get criminal suspects into an interrogation room without a lawyer present.
For more on why you should not speak with police, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
I work at a car wash and recently a gun came up missing out of a customer car now here's the thing the police did not interview everyone who toutched the car just the wash bay now its valleys and machanics who touch the car before we do but after the interview they ask if I would take a polygragh if it came about I told them no because its like a coin toss iim already a nervice person can my boss fire me for refuseing ?
Graw, no, under the Employee Polygraph Protection Act (http://www.dol.gov/compliance/laws/comp-eppa.htm), you boss cannot fire you, demote you, or take any action against you because of your refusal to submit to a polygraph interrogation.
Ok so today my boss wanted to talk to me so I went to the fairfield location this morning and we talked about the situation he ask would I take polygraph I told him my lawyer told me I souldnt take it so he played the nice guy and told me I can't go back to the car wash where I was at basicly telling me I have to work at a farther location not on the bus line and he's changing my off days when I told him I have no transportaion he told me to call him in the morning and let him khow about my ride to work situation well when it all boil down to it I missed a wholes day pay and I have to change locations I can't get to and he told me its not punishment and I'm the only one out of all the people who's invalved in this to be relocated and its all because of the accident what can I do its like he's demoting me in a nice way basicly saying a did it cause I'm the new guy what can I do
graw
To me, it looks like your boss thinks he has found a way to fire you because he knows you can't get to work at the new location. I'm sure you have TV advertising lawyers in your area. They operate on a percentage base. Contact one and see if he/she will take your case and file a lawsuit under the EPPA law. If you get fired, you might tell your boss what you are going to do because he is retalliating for you not taking the polygraph. You might save your job. If not, then file the lawsuit.
graw
Under EPPA if you take the poly and fail you are still protected. Employers cannot take any job related action based solely on a negative polygraph opinion. By refusing to cooperate with the employer's investigation, you have given cover to the employee who caused the "accident", a strange word to describe a theft, and placed yourself as the focus of suspicion.
Twoblocks advice is always to sue the bastard, but employers are given broad latitude to determine staffing needs at different locations and if you were last hired your case may be difficult to prove.
Hope you find a ride to work.
Well the same day it happend some one got hire and sent to take my spot at my location so now I'm not the last to get hired
pailryder
In all my days of hiring and firing people, I have never fired a person without evidence in my hand and made a full explaination to the person why he's being fired. If he had a good reason in his defense, I always listened got to the bottom of the problem. Managers who don't do this is wrong and most always have a personal vendetta against the employee. The court system is for people seeking justice. The other alternative is take a .357 in and blow his brains out. I will seek the court system of justice every time.
graw
The fact that he replaced you the same day convicts him of retalliation. Talk to a lawyer about this.
Graw,
It seems to me that your employer has violated section 2002(3)(A) of the Employee Polygraph Protection Act, which makes it unlawful for an employer "to discharge, discipline, discriminate against in any manner, or deny employment or promotion to, or threaten to take any such action against...any employee or prospective employee who refuses, declines, or fails to take or submit to any lie detector test..." I agree with Twoblock, you should talk to a lawyer about this.
Pailryder,
I think it's insidious to equate a person's refusing to submit to a fraudulent procedure such as polygraph "testing" with "refusing to cooperate with the investigation." On the contrary, I'd say that the police's resorting to the magical thinking of polygraphy constitutes refusal to conduct a proper investigation.
Quote from: George_Maschke on Dec 15, 2012, 05:03 AMI'd say that the police's resorting to the magical thinking of polygraphy constitutes refusal to conduct a proper investigation.
The police do not have anything to do with this request. This request came from the employer, who has every right, even a responsibility, to investigate the theft of a customer's property from a vehicle on his premisis.
My point is take or refuse, pass or fail, the employee still has all EPPA protections!
The employer appears to have complied with the federal law. The employer did not discharge, displicine or discriminate. The employee still has the same job at the same pay, he is simply assigned to a different location. The employer will show that all employees are subject to reassignment and other employees have been reassigned before. Thus, no discrimination.
And by the way, graw, you have a weak case, but an attorney is not required. If you feel you were wronged, you can file a compliant by simply contacting DOL Wage and Hour Division yourself.
Quote from: Twoblock on Dec 13, 2012, 04:10 PMThe other alternative is take a .357 in and blow his brains out
Or simply find another job.
Pailryder,
Actually, Graw indicated in his first post that the police had asked if he would take a polygraph. The employer also asked him to take a polygraph (and that demand may have itself been a violation of EPPA). I disagree with you on the question of whether the employer's action in assigning Graw to a more-difficult-to-reach site was discriminatory. It seems to me that it pretty clearly is.
I am asking for help, I went over to my ex's Tuesday night and was getting picked up after a few hrs. I was only there for 2 hrs but he had gone to bed early for work the next morning. I was only there cause my family was having some issues and i needed a place to go to for a bit. so after i was picked up, i went home went to bed and woke up the next morning to a phone call at 5:30 am from him saying i stole 2000.00 from him! I was shocked! I did not steal from him. He was in his room with the door locked the whole time i was there. his wallet was in his room with him. Then a few hrs later the police where on the phone asking me to come in for questioning. So of couse i went in, and told my story and after i was done got told that "its looks like i took it" So the next day the trooper called back again but this time asking if i would take a polygraph test. I said yes, of course! But now looking up online, im not sure if i should!! I have a big anxiety issues and don't want to have it come back that i lied! And if it did could they charge me?
Seriously,
You should cancel any appointment for a polygraph "test." Polygraphy has no scientific basis (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml), and as used by police, it is often little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect without a lawyer. Interrogation tactics can be coercive and manipulative, sometimes leading to false confessions. Even innocuous statements have the potential to be harmful to you, even though you're innocent. You have nothing to gain and potentially much to lose by submitting to a polygraph interrogation.
You would be wise to get a lawyer and not talk to police again without your lawyer present. Any competent lawyer will tell you not to submit to a polygraph "test," and you can tell the police that you're declining the polygraph based on your lawyer's advice.
One can NEVER "prove" their innocence to the cops. If they mention a polygraph, tell them what they shou >:(ld do with it.
Quote from: George_Maschke on Mar 23, 2008, 03:48 AMThe police cannot force you to submit to a voice stress analysis "test," or to any lie detector test of any kind. You can and should refuse. These "tests" have no scientific basis. In the context of criminal investigations, they typically serve as little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect without a lawyer present, as the suspect is falsely led to believe that (s)he is simply submitting to a scientific test for truth.
This is why the myth that the polygraph is a "lie detector" is so dangerous! It is nothing but a psychological billy club used to coerce a person into confessing! And it is FOOLISH & DANGEROUS to use the polygraph as a "lie detector, or even as a prop for an interrogation because, as this article demonstrates, many of the confessions obtained by polygraph interrogations are false confessions! One can only hope that the truth about how corrupt and abusive these polygraph operators, (interrogators), are will be exposed and that the use of this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture will finally be stopped entirely!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-chicago-police-polygraph-unit-met-20131129,0,3220492.story
Chicago mother Nicole Harris was convicted in 2005 of murdering her 4-year-old son. A federal appeals court overturned her conviction, and her case was dismissed in June after the Cook County state's attorney's office completed a comprehensive reinvestigation. (Nancy Stone, Chicago Tribune / February 25, 2013)
By Duaa Eldeib, Chicago Tribune reporter
November 29, 2013
After decades of relying on controversial polygraph examinations to help solve crimes, the Chicago Police Department has drastically scaled back on giving so-called lie-detector tests in the course of criminal investigations.
In what appears to be a shift in focus, the department's polygraph unit examiners, who previously worked under the forensic services division, have been relocated to human resources, where their primary responsibility is administering the tests to police officer candidates. The examiners' new unit follows industry standards for conducting polygraphs.
The move was said to be temporary, but one year later, the examiners are still with the personnel unit.
"The temporary detail was made to address the backlog in pre-employment screenings needs," police spokesman Adam Collins said. "There hasn't been a move away from polygraphs as a part of criminal investigations."
Collins did not say how long the three examiners would remain with human resources, which has seen a significant increase in the number of pre-employment polygraphs. He said only that it would be "until the need has been met." The examiners continue to conduct criminal polygraphs as the need arises, Collins said.
Yet the number of criminal polygraphs has dropped considerably, from about 400 in 2011 to 50 in the first eight months of 2013.
The timing of the examiners' move to the personnel unit corresponded with a Tribune investigation into the polygraph unit's role in obtaining false confessions. Critics decried the department's use of polygraphs, claiming the examiners employed it as an interrogation prop to extract confessions. Some detractors also questioned the validity of the polygraph itself, calling it junk science. Polygraphs have played a role in several Chicago murder prosecutions that unraveled.
At the time of the Tribune's investigation, published in March, police extolled the polygraph as a valuable investigative tool in criminal cases.
But the Tribune found that Chicago police did not adhere to voluntary published standards for how polygraphs are administered or scored. For example, major industry groups strongly encourage numerical scoring of polygraph exams, but it wasn't until 2012 that Chicago police said their examiners had recently begun employing the practice. Before that, one examiner agreed in a sworn deposition that he scored a test simply by "eyeballing it."
The Tribune also found that the city has paid out millions of dollars in damages in polygraph-related cases. The Tribune examined the role of the polygraph unit in the cases of six defendants who went on to be cleared — five of whom were charged with murder.
One of them was Chicago mother Nicole Harris, who had been convicted in 2005 of murdering her 4-year-old son. A federal appeals court overturned her conviction, and her case was dismissed in June after the Cook County state's attorney's office completed a comprehensive reinvestigation.
"We do not believe that it would be in the interest of justice to proceed on this matter," State's Attorney Anita Alvarez said in a statement at the time.
Harris claimed she falsely confessed to Chicago police examiner Robert Bartik only after he berated her and told her she had failed the polygraph exam, though police records show the test was inconclusive.
Bartik, who in court records denied those claims, declined to comment.
In their role handling pre-employment polygraphs, the examiners now report to a supervisor who is a licensed polygraph examiner, and written procedures dictate that the examiners comply with professional standards, according to police records and officials.
Steven Drizin, a law professor at Northwestern University and expert in false confessions, was part of the team from the university's Center on Wrongful Convictions that represented Harris in her appeal.
Drizin said he believes the department's decision to shift the focus of the examiners "is an admission that their presence in criminal cases, especially homicide cases, is a liability to the prosecution."
"There are legions of false confessions that came about as a result of the introduction of false polygraph results during the course of an interrogation," he added.
The defendants who were later cleared said they had believed the polygraph was a scientific test that would confirm their innocence. They said police told them a polygraph could prove if they were telling the truth. Instead, they alleged that the polygraph examiners manipulated them into falsely confessing and in one case made up a confession.
Collins said the department has not changed its philosophy regarding criminal polygraphs. The decision to move the examiners to the personnel unit was made in October 2012, and the examiners began in the personnel unit the following month, he said. At the time the Tribune's investigation was published months later, department officials denied the unit's focus or responsibilities had shifted.
Now, when a request for a criminal polygraph comes through, arrangements are made to allow the examiners to assist the detectives, department officials said.
In 2011, Chicago police conducted 402 criminal polygraphs. In 2012, that number dropped to 169, according to records obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.
Examiners from the Cook County sheriff's office, who have been called in on occasion to assist with criminal polygraphs, have conducted seven exams for Chicago police since 2012, a spokeswoman for the sheriff's office said.
"An increase or decrease is merely a reflection of the number of requests that came in" and not a change in strategy, Collins said.
The commander who oversees forensics has called Bartik, who was involved in five of the six cases, an "excellent examiner." Bartik previously testified that 111 people confessed to him in a five-year period, prompting a defense expert to call his record "unprecedented." In court records, Bartik has denied any wrongdoing.
deldeib@tribune.com
Copyright © 2013 Chicago Tribune Company, LLC
Quote from: PhilGainey on Nov 13, 2008, 08:00 PMThe police can not FORCE you to take a polygraph, or question you without legal representation if you request it. Just to make sure, call an attorney.
They probably do not have enuf to prosecute you, so they are resorting to getting you to take a polygraph so they can force a confession out of you. Refuse, and DON'T sign anything!
TC
NEVER cooperate with the police if you are the subject of an investigation!
They can lie to you all they want, and it's all perfectly legal.
Your only right is to remain silent. NEVER be afraid to exercise that right!
Remember: You can not talk or explain your way out of ANYTHING! The criminal justice system is adversarial IN NATURE, REGARDLESS OF HOW FRIENDLY OR DUMB THE OFFICERS MAY TRY TO APPEAR! :o
Quote from: pailryder on Dec 15, 2012, 08:09 AMQuote from: Twoblock on Dec 13, 2012, 04:10 PMThe other alternative is take a .357 in and blow his brains out
Or simply find another job.
But not at a "three-letter" agency! lol :)
I'm currently on parole in NYC.2 yeas ago while on parole I was arrested and charged with forcible touching.Subsequently the criminal charge was dismissed in my favor.Because I was on parole I received a parole violation. After a final parole hearing that administrative law judge dismissed all of the parole violation charges surrounding the forcible touching charge and stated that he found insufficient corroborating evidence to support the allegation.I was recently told by my parole officer that I would have to submit to a polygraph test.Is this legal???
James, I am not sure about NY State, but I know of other State Dept. of Corrections which employ the polygraph to monitor parolees/probationers' keeping to the terms of their release. It's a dog's life, so you may want to keep your hands in your pockets to be safe.
my friend has been accused of stealing money from a girl that is jealous bc he decided not to date him...now she has filed a charge and he has been asked to take a polygraph...it appears that the detective and the accuser are personal friends and this story has been fabricated to make him look bad! Pls advise?
Marlene,
Your friend would be wise to refuse the polygraph. Polygraphy is a pseudoscientific fraud. It has no scientific basis (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml), and a suspect's "failing" the "test" can be part of an investigator's interrogation plan.
Moreover, your friend would be well advised not to speak with anyone from law enforcement at all, for reasons explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Quote from: xenonman on Jun 09, 2013, 09:06 PMOne can NEVER "prove" their innocence to the cops. If they mention a polygraph, tell them what they should do with it. :P
Quote from: xenonman on Jun 09, 2013, 09:06 PMOne can NEVER "prove" their innocence to the cops. If they mention a polygraph, tell them what they should do with it. :P
I filed out a police report of my medication had been stolen from me and I signed a paper saying everything I said was the truth and now I got a call saying they want me to come in and take a CVSA test down at the station. What if the test says I failed it when I am actually telling the truth? I have bad nerves anyways around cops. I don't want to take the test and I don't have the money to hire a laywer but main question since I signed that form that said I said everything was the truth of what I was saying am I going to be forced to take this CVSA test anyways? Please help quick I need to know what to do in this type of situation! The guy told the cops I was selling the pills to him which I wasn't he just stole them and is trying to make me out to be the bad guy so he gets off the hook what should I do?
Confess.
Quotewhat should I do?
Once you have been charged (if that happens), contact the public defender in your jurisdiction ASAP.
Take NO tests of any kind. Once LE has "determined" that you're guilty, they are going to use all their resources to push for your arrest and eventual conviction! :o
QuoteI filed out a police report of my medication had been stolen from me and I signed a paper saying everything I said was the truth and now I got a call saying they want me to come in and take a CVSA test down at the station. What if the test says I failed it when I am actually telling the truth? I have bad nerves anyways around cops. I don't want to take the test and I don't have the money to hire a laywer but main question since I signed that form that said I said everything was the truth of what I was saying am I going to be forced to take this CVSA test anyways? Please help quick I need to know what to do in this type of situation! The guy told the cops I was selling the pills to him which I wasn't he just stole them and is trying to make me out to be the bad guy so he gets off the hook what should I do?
In this situation you would be wise to
refuse any demand that you submit to a CVSA "test" and, furthermore, to
speak no further with the police unless you have a lawyer with you.
Computer Voice Stress Analysis (CVSA) is junk science invented by a huckster. It is used by police as a pretext for interrogating suspects without a lawyer present. The outcome may very well be a scripted part of the interrogation plan. (The interrogator will tell you you failed and badger you for a confession, using the "test" results as leverage.)
For more about the charlatan who created CVSA see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3E_2KTxI0
For more about why you should not speak with the police at all, let alone submit to an interrogation masquerading as "test," see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
QuoteI filed out a police report of my medication had been stolen from me and I signed a paper saying everything I said was the truth
What you omitted seems to be key to your situation.
What kind of drug was it? Was it oxycodone or some other drug which has a high value on the black market?
Your use of passive voice is interesting, "had been stolen." Who stole it?
How did the thief get access to it? burglary?, purse/backpack snatching? or?
Did you file the police report immediately upon noticing the medication was stolen?---or only after someone else had gotten into trouble with the police?
If the police suspect you may have been pushing your prescription medications, then George is right, you need a lawyer, your doctor too.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Mar 27, 2017, 03:55 PMIf the police suspect you may have been pushing your prescription medications, then George is right, you need a lawyer, your doctor too.
Better yet, let's just polygraph the doctor. If he doesn't pass the polygraph then he loses his license to practice medicine. That is exactly what happens to honest patriots in the intelligence community every day. Let's spread this fun around. Everyone in our society needs to experience it. Then it will be outlawed for sure.
Quote from: Wandersmann on Mar 27, 2017, 05:18 PMBetter yet, let's just polygraph the doctor. If he doesn't pass the polygraph then he loses his license to practice medicine.
I'm sure that the AMA would never allow that to happen. :-? ::)
Quote from: xenonman on Mar 27, 2017, 11:52 PMI'm sure that the AMA would never allow that to happen.
You're right Xenonman. The people running the AMA had married parents that taught them right from wrong and the virtue of loyalty going both ways in an organization, unlike the reptiles >:( that run our government.