To all polygraphers on this board,
Regarding effective use of the polygraph, how do the following impact polygraph results? Please provide explanations and evidence...
1. Hypertension
2. Thyroid disease
3. Diabetes
4. Asthma
5. Menopause
6. The common cold
7. Schizophrenia
8. Major and mild depression
9. Alzheimer's disease
10. Bipolar disorder
11. Histrionic personality disorder
12. Psychopathic personality disorder
13. Low IQ
14. Average IQ
15. High IQ
I would also ask that you refrain from personal attacks and treat this merely as an informational in nature. As for the antipolygraph folk, I would ask that you extend the same courtesy and let the answers speak for themselves. Once the polygraph folk have had a chance to answer, we can then engage in spirited but respectful debate...
One also doesn't have to know the answers to all these, only what you know about...
And again, I ask that all refrain from personal attacks, logical fallacies, and misdirections...
Thanks ahead of time,
-digithead
digithead
Excellent questions. However, only people like Doctors Richardson, Furedy, etc., can effectively answer them.
I eagerly await the responses. That is, if there are any.
I agree, excellent question. I will be very interested to hear any replies and I have a thyroid disorder, anxiety, and severe allergies.
I am scheduled to have a polygraph for a job next week and was given a paper that said if I had a cold or bad allergies to reschedule. Ummm, I have severe allergies all the time and suffer miserable from them so does that mean I never have to take the test? ;)
Quote from: digithead on Sep 17, 2006, 11:49 PMTo all polygraphers on this board,
Regarding effective use of the polygraph, how do the following impact polygraph results? Please provide explanations and evidence...
1. Hypertension
2. Thyroid disease
3. Diabetes
4. Asthma
5. Menopause
6. The common cold
7. Schizophrenia
8. Major and mild depression
9. Alzheimer's disease
10. Bipolar disorder
11. Histrionic personality disorder
12. Psychopathic personality disorder
13. Low IQ
14. Average IQ
15. High IQ
I would also ask that you refrain from personal attacks and treat this merely as an informational in nature. As for the antipolygraph folk, I would ask that you extend the same courtesy and let the answers speak for themselves. Once the polygraph folk have had a chance to answer, we can then engage in spirited but respectful debate...
One also doesn't have to know the answers to all these, only what you know about...
And again, I ask that all refrain from personal attacks, logical fallacies, and misdirections...
Thanks ahead of time,
-digithead
It's been two days, any polygraphers out there want to answer? Nonombre? LieBabyCryBaby? Retcopper?
Digithead:
Didnt really want to take the time to reply but you seem like a decent sort of guy so Ill try to answer what I think you are asking. I will not address every point becasue one answer will apply to several.
Some people with the problems you name can or can not be tested. A lot dpends on the pretest interview. For instance, a person wiht a low IQ may not remember what he did yesterday but how low does the IQ have to go before one can not remember what he did. I cant remember, imbecile moron is the lowest ? But you have to interview them and make a decsion. I probalby wouild not test a person wiht a very low IQ becaue they can be impressionable .
Some of the illnesses you bame cam be tested but again depends on how they are physically and mentally at the time, i.e. a person wiht a common cold can not be tested if he is going to be sniffing all the time.
Alzheimer can not be tested. Bi polar can as well as depression patinets.
Histionic disorder subject has a tendency to be a drama queen and embellish . Again can test, but each individual is different and have to make assessment in interview. This also alies to psychopathic subjects who are extremely manipulative and sometimes very evil. Cant test schizos who are out of touch with reality.
Most of the others you can test if they are and not in discomfort. BTW you forgot to name pregnat people which you can not test.
These are only my opinionsevery isssue. SOme polygraphers may come here and disagree on certain issues.
Digithead
I apologize fro the grammar and spelling mistakes in last post but had to hurry. Have a good day
digithead
retcopper's stock rose with me a while back when he told me that he would not test a subject that is on psychotropic medication. I think most polygraphers will tell you they can test around the conditions you listed. Their punitive egos control their thinking.
I don't agree with all of retcopper's posts but, at times, (humor) he does posess rational thinking. He has the right to defend his profession as best as he can as we have the right to defend ours. It's just that, at times, (humor again, retcopper) he has dificulties. One shouldn't be serious all the time. It wears on the grey matter. I can, also, take insults that are offered jokingly.
I should have added - I will be gone to the left coast for a couple of weeks. Hve to work occasionally.
Quote from: retcopper on Sep 20, 2006, 11:46 AM
Most of the others you can test if they are and not in discomfort. BTW you forgot to name pregnant people which you can not test.
How does an examiner determine if an individual is not in too much discomfort to be tested?
Also, is it a general rule among examiners not to test pregnant people? If so, how far along would one need to be before they could not be tested? Does an examiner require verification of the pregnancy? ;D
Underlyingtruth:
Where you been? Glad to see you back. I ask the person if they are in any discomfort, especially if they tell me they are on medicine or tell me they have had an injury or recent illness I do not test any pregnant woman, regardless of how far they are along.
Have a good day
am convinced pre-existing medical conditions do affect polygraph tests. I took a pre-employment polygraph and failed. I have Hypertension, Diabetes, and sleep Apnea. These conditions are treated with daily medication and breathing machine which is used while I sleep. The medication for Hypertension and Diabetes does have an affect on blood pressure stability. Treatment for sleep Apnea has a drastic affect on rate of breathing. My breathing rate is abnormally lower than the average individual. During the test I was told several times my breathing was abnormal and accused of holding my breath during questions. When I coughed during a question every thing started really going down hill. The bottom line is, I told the truth to all the questions and failed the test. Maybe I am an isolated case, but physical and medical conditions factored into my failure. I was not told by my tester what questions or reason resulted in my failure. The pre test interview was useless.
Digithead,
Only one response to your questions. Didn't expect much more than nothing out of our friendly neighborhood polygraphers.
RetCopper,
As TwoBlock said, your stock on this board with me went way up with your response and candor.
Regards ....
Quote from: EosJupiter on Sep 27, 2006, 07:50 PMDigithead,
Only one response to your questions. Didn't expect much more than nothing out of our friendly neighborhood polygraphers.
RetCopper,
As TwoBlock said, your stock on this board with me went way up with your response and candor.
Regards ....
I know and other than retcopper's response, I'm somewhat disappointed. I'd address it but I'm tied up with work and school at the moment...
When I get a free moment this weekend, I'll put my thoughts down...
I'm disappointed. Other than retcopper's response, none of our other resident polygraphers bothered to reply...
So here's my take on it. The CQT polygraph is based on the assumption (quite flawed in my opinion) that there will be an involuntary physiological response in one of the four channels measured by the machine when a person is lying. Any physical illness, condition, or mental defect that affects any of these channels can lead to false positives. Something like hypertension, which is quite common and undetected in a lot of people (hence it's name "the silent killer"), can adversely affect a person's readings especially in the heightened emotional arena of a polygrapher's office...
Retcopper's refusal to polygraph pregnant women is interesting, as it is a tacit admission that physical states can and do affect the outcome of the test. I ask why only pregnant women and the common cold? There are a plethora of diseases that affect the endocrine and central nervous systems. Why don't polygraphers worry about them also?
It seems to me that disease would be the primary threat to polygraph accuracy, why does very little of the literature explore it?
I'll open up the floor to both sides for debate...
i recently took a poly test and failed.. i told the truth and it didnt matter. did the norm.. closed my eyes and took the 2 hour test. im bipolar type 1. does that have anything to do with it.. i did tell him i was bipolar and not on medications. would that affect the outcome of the test and if so how?
ty
I don't know for sure, but as far as not testing pregnant woman I would think could be related to the baby's heartbeat. Plus, if they are far enough along and the baby is moving or kicking it could cause distraction or pain which would affect the results. I believe the cold would be because if your stuffed up, congested, or nose is running and you are trying to control those during the test it will alter breathing and possibly other vital signs. Chronic pain can affect results. An episode of pain changes your heart rate, breathing, blood pressure just as what I already mentioned. I'm not in the law field. I am strictly going on my nursing background and what I know about how those specific things affect a patient's vital signs.
I know someone who is a schizophrenic. I suspected he was lying and he denied it. I said "let's do this the easy way then
. Split the cost of polygraph. He says he can't pass due to schizophrenia. I've researched some but don't understand. Slums like deflecting to me. Can you explain?
QuoteI know someone who is a schizophrenic. I suspected he was lying and he denied it.
May I recommend that you avoid contentious discussions with those suffering from schizophrenia? Surely there are more enriching pursuits available to you.
QuoteI know someone who is a schizophrenic. I suspected he was lying and he denied it. I said "let's do this the easy way then
. Split the cost of polygraph. He says he can't pass due to schizophrenia. I've researched some but don't understand. Slums like deflecting to me. Can you explain?
Polygraph "testing" has not been shown to work in people
don't suffer from schizophrenia, let alone those who do. It's junk science (https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-018.shtml). Turning to a polygraph operator in an attempt to divine the truth would be a complete waste of your money.
Can sleep apnea, which causes different breathing, effect the result of a polygraph result. If so, what would be the factor.
Only if you're sleeping during the test.
Carolyn, I think the answer depends on whether or not the sleep apnea is untreated. If the person you are referring to religiously uses a CPAP, then I would say there would likely be no effect. However, untreated sleep apnea can cause all kinds of havoc in the body including impaired cognitive abilities. It would be an interesting study to conduct.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Oct 18, 2014, 05:09 PMQuoteI know someone who is a schizophrenic. I suspected he was lying and he denied it.
May I recommend that you avoid contentious discussions with those suffering from schizophrenia? Surely there are more enriching pursuits available to you.
The calibre of many of the "guests" on AP sometimes shocks me!
:-[
What about a person who has Myotonic Muscular Dystrophy? symptoms appeared in 20's any now 52 and just failed test.
QuoteWhat about a person who has Myotonic Muscular Dystrophy? symptoms appeared in 20's any now 52 and just failed test.
Due to its deterioration of executive functions, Endocrine System disruption and Myotonia, I'd say the examiner made a bad decision to find such a person suitable.
Ark, what's your opinion of the directed-lie format?
Speaking primarily as a Backster-trained traditionalist at heart -- later heavily influenced by Matte -- I think the directed-lie method is bogus.
There's a big pissing match in my neck of the woods (New England) about the validity of the directed-lie polygraph "test".
Everyone who's anyone in the polygraph rackets monitors the A-P forums like bored housewives watch soap operas. Given that context, you are regarded as a star.
What say you about the directed lie "test"?
Quote from: danmangan on Mar 25, 2016, 08:49 PMArk, what's your opinion of the directed-lie format?
I have perused the laboratory studies and given the claims of the Utah team due diligence. While they claim science, I say it's bunko. In a forensic situation, with much at stake, there is no way anyone can convince me that directed lies would establish any kind of diagnostic dichotomy with RQ's threatening the well being of the examinee.
The great and late John Dobson, the Side Walk Astronomer's reply to the big bang theory: "You are trying to tell me that nothing made something out of nothing?"
Sometimes the arrogance of scientists is appalling.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Mar 25, 2016, 09:56 PMSometimes the arrogance of scientists is appalling
I agree -- and, in my opinion, especially that as manifested by the self-proclaimed scientists who effectively run the APA.
Ark, speaking of arrogance, that reminds me...
For decades, the APA stated as its cardinal goal this moral imperative:
To serve the cause of truth with integrity, objectivity and fairness to all persons.Last year, the illuminati who run the APA saw fit to shitcan that most noble ambition.
Do you have any theories as to why the APA leadership chose to take such a seemingly queer, backward and deleterious step?
Honestly, I just don't have enough insight into the internal workings of the APA to provide meaningful input. I'm not a member, and could never bring myself to pay the $500 entry fee for the conventions.
I've read those Journal articles which have any quality (about 40%).
It is curious to hear that they scrubbed such a noble idea from the website, I cannot even speculate as to why.
Ark, one thing about APA seminars that has always struck me as odd is the event's solemn invocation, usually delivered by an older white guy, who, in a predictably ministerial baritone voice, makes a passionate appeal to God for wisdom and discernment for those in attendance.
One wonders why an assembly of forensic psychophysiologists dedicated to the practice of evidenced-based science needs to start their seminars with supplications to a supreme being.
My theory: In their heart of hearts, these people seek some measure of comfort by effectively asking for spiritual guidance -- or Divine Intervention -- in their practice of what they may fear (know?) is essentially little more than an elaborate guessing game.
Do you have any thoughts on the APA's rationale here, Ark? Do EE guys do similar things at their professional and educational events?
I am not a militant secularist, as long as they don't extrapolate any religion into their policies, I don't have a problem with a brief spiritual utterance at the beginning of a gathering. But, I dislike listening to sermons outside of a church.
Although this does irk you, I would not recommend making secularization a chief element of your platform; it could backfire. It'd be better to make your changes in this arena with minimized fanfare once elected.
I am not a member of any organizations, I tend avoid putting myself into buckets.
QuoteCan sleep apnea, which causes different breathing, effect the result of a polygraph result. If so, what would be the factor.
It can in the fact that a person with sleep apnea or other disorders make their breathing and heart beat inconsistent .Which in the long run would make it impossible to determine when and if the person was being truthful or not even with test questions . Best bet is for the other person demanding more from people they associate . Just don't associate with people that give them reason to question in the first place . Confront them in a calm and civil way on that action . Like if it's suspecting the person of cheating . Don't confront them on cheating confront them on the suspicious activity they do . Then the next time they start acting suspicious leaving them is appropriate . It's not healthy sitting at home worrying and stressing . People that care about people other than their self usually put in the effort to not cause stress in other people's life .