Ok from, what I have studied and known the correct way to employ a counter measure is during a control question. Preferably the tongue biting technique.
My question is. YOU HAVE to LIE IN A CONTROL QUESTION?
2nd Question. Is tongue biting more effective than mental' countermeasures??
3rd question. MENTAL COUNTERMEASURES ARE USED DURING RELATIVE QUESTIONS? Of course with controlled breathing. Also, can they be mixed with tounge biting technique?
Whoever has gone through and passed polygraph's using these methods' please post here; and fulfill me with any information imp missing. My poly is coming in two week's. And actually imp quite excited to take it and see if I can employ these countermeasures efficiently.!
Have you read TLBTD?
The CQs are by nature questions to which you lie.
"Have you ever committed a crime?" Jaywalking is a crime, yet you are directed to say "No" to this question unless it is "serious." What does serious mean?
I don't know how to answer your 2nd question, I think it is subjective.
I always mix tounge biting with controlled breathing AND sphinctor tension.
Is there a need to use CMs on RQs if you're not lying? I never have and I forgot what TLBTD says about it... but I'll look.
I have passed many polygraphs using CMs.
Quote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jun 28, 2006, 09:08 PM
3rd question. MENTAL COUNTERMEASURES ARE USED DURING RELATIVE (sic) QUESTIONS? 3rd question. Of course with controlled breathing. Also, can they be mixed with tounge biting technique?
Read the TBTLD again. Why in god's name would you want to increase your reaction to a relevant question?
??? ??? ???alright, i understand that' you can't deploy CM's during a revelant question.. but as far is controlled breathing.. is there any thing different in revelvant questions? What if one of the revelant questions is something i don't wanna answer truthfully? FOr example experimenting with pot..? do i employ a different breathing patternn. or do i TRY MY BEST to make reactions in controlled questions!
;D >:( ???
That's what I was getting at! I figured you were hinting that you didn't want to be completely honest on a RQ. When you asked about using CMs on RQ, I assumed you were asking about ways to lower your reaction to a RQ. It is your reaction as it relates to the CQs that determines if you pass or fail. So, you need your CQ reaction to be slightly greater than your RQ reactions.
Lowering your reaction to RQs? It's nearly, if not, impossible to not think about something when it is mentioned. Don't think about your mother! See, you just did. You could try thinking about "nothing" when asked a RQ, but I'm not sure how effective that will be. I'm sure there are many differing opinions regarding this topic.
I've always been successful using CMs, maybe I'm just lucky. Never-the-less, I'm going to keep doing what I do everytime until it doesn't work anymore.
Perhaps some of the senior users would like to comment...
Quote from: underlyingtruth on Jun 29, 2006, 09:20 PMThat's what I was getting at! I figured you were hinting that you didn't want to be completely honest on a RQ. When you asked about using CMs on RQ, I assumed you were asking about ways to lower your reaction to a RQ. It is your reaction as it relates to the CQs that determines if you pass or fail. So, you need your CQ reaction to be slightly greater than your RQ reactions.
Lowering your reaction to RQs? It's nearly, if not, impossible to not think about something when it is mentioned. Don't think about your mother! See, you just did. You could try thinking about "nothing" when asked a RQ, but I'm not sure how effective that will be. I'm sure there are many differing opinions regarding this topic.
I've always been successful using CMs, maybe I'm just lucky. Never-the-less, I'm going to keep doing what I do everytime until it doesn't work anymore.
Perhaps some of the senior users would like to comment...
Underlyingtruth.....you always seem to have some good info and advice, but I am curious. Why do you take so many polygraphs if you have had so much success in employing countermeasures and passing them all?
Also, if you are going to lie on one of the RQs, then is it best to lie on ALL of the CQs?? Or just lie on maybe one or two of them? I figure if one lies on ALL of the CQs, then it will look pretty suspicious that the person is using countermeasures.
My situation requires me to take 1-2 polygraphs a year. The details would be "off-topic," but I'll be happy to explain further if you'll send me a private message.
All CQs require you to tell a lie; that's part of trickery that polygraphers use - they convince you to lie to the question and will badger you until you do (of course, I think YOU may already know that). I use CMs on ALL the CQs whether I'm being completely honest on the RQs or not. I've never been accused of using CMs.
Don't you understand that being completely honest doesn't work?! The times that I decided to be completely honest and spent lots of time with the polygrapher trying to justify my "lies" to the CQs were the times that I failed. That's what tee'd me off! The more honest I was, the more I failed!
Quote from: underlyingtruth on Jun 29, 2006, 02:56 AM
I always mix tounge biting with controlled breathing AND sphinctor tension.
What have you found to work well for "controlled breathing?" Do you do the "pause" in your breathing right after you say yes or no, as described in TLBTLD?
I count to help maintain a constant breathing pattern. On RQs, I pause (naturally) after answering "yes" or "no," finish the exhalation of my remaining breath, and return to the normal pattern (counting). When employing CMs, I add a "catch-breath" after answering and cycle the pattern one less count (1,2,3 as opposed to 1,2,3,4), breath deeper/more shallow, than usual, tighten my sphincter, bite my tongue slightly, and think "OMG, I'm going to get caught using CMs." Yes, I do use all of those CMs at once.
Underlying, if you can use them all at once, you're a wiser (and braver) man than I. TLBTLD tends to suggest using 1 or at most 2 CM's, but I guess if you can monkey about more than that with your BFB, more power to you.
IMHO, I would use the mental CM's first. While it can't be shown that a polygrapher can accurately diagnose the butt-clench CM, they might try to accuse you if presented with a repetitive sudden or gradual spike. I caution on this because controlling your anal sphincter is a voluntary act in the poly setting, unlike after you went to the bathroom when sick or constipated. Then, after you're done, the sphincter will often want to contract involuntarily and inconsistently in response to the physical discomfort it just experienced (sorry if this is gross, folks, but I'm being strictly clinical).
That brings me to the breathing CM. I guess I am in a minority here, but I don't agree with the use of respiratory CM's on a general basis, or throughout a test. In the interrogation setting, respiration is the one thing that is 100% voluntary, even more so than the sphincter. When you breathe and think about it, as you would in a ploygraph, er, polygraph, you choose to breathe x amount in and y amount out (amplitude) on the rt and rd channels with varying, visible frequency. This is the -one- thing the interrogator might (coin-flip chance) look at and say, "Why are you breathing Beethoven's 5th? I see a pattern." Unless you can come up with a very convoluted pattern, or breathe totally randomly, I foresee a risk in this CM. You might try it on one CQ, but as your first line of defense, I would respectfully suggest mental CM's.
Why? Poly-Man can't out you on a mental CM. I don't believe polygraphers can find CM's with any more accuracy than George or Eos does, but supposing you just get too bloody involved with the breathing. Your pattern is too good. You present the conman with one more excuse to fail you. If they've read TLBTLD, remember, they know the breathing patterns, too.
Myself, I have tested my physiological reactions to mental arithmetic, mental math (a difference exists), exciting/racy/provocative thoughts, and essentially trying to tense myself from the inside. On the last, imagine trying to contract an adductor muscle without moving. Start with the pit of your stomach and focus on different muscles, especially in the arms and legs. "Feel" the tension and nervousness. It created a slow-burn rise in my GSR, good for alternating with mental arithmetic (counting back by sevens), math (trying to resolve the quadratic formula from terms of 0 to terms of x... wonderful CM), and thinking of jumping off a cliff.
Hope all this helps some... :)
Quote from: cesium_133 on Jul 08, 2006, 05:25 AMUnderlying, if you can use them all at once, you're a wiser (and braver) man than I. TLBTLD tends to suggest using 1 or at most 2 CM's, but I guess if you can monkey about more than that with your BFB, more power to you.
Well, I'm not going to argue with you because I agree.
The first time I ever used CMs, I hadn't fully read the TLBTLD and just hit the highlights. I knew just enough to be dangerous. I used all of those CMs I listed above and I was told that my chart was "very truthful." Since then, I've thought about only using 1 or 2 CMs because I was afraid of spiking the CQs too much. But, I changed my mind and did the same thing I did before. Ever since, I've done the same thing every time and haven't had a problem or been accused of using CMs. So, until I fail or get accused of using CMs, I'm not going to change anything.
Definitely some great dialogue going on here. I'd be curious to see what George has to say about all of this. I'm thinking it might be best just to altogether avoid trying to breath in a particular pattern or rhythm, and instead just concentrate on doing the pause (supression) after answering "yes" or "no". Combine this with the mental countermeasures as described earlier, and I would think this would suffice.
Alterego1,
I for one will never use a physical type countermeasure. Though workable on a novice polygrapher, with the exception if I notice that there is no piezio-electric pads or sensors in the chair, an experieced one is not so easily blinded. I will always go with the Mental countermeasures. The breathing and sphincter types are not worth the risk. Like anything that works, the less moving parts the better. ANd again they can't read your mind, especially since you know there game plan and can read the signals and questions. I can't speak for George, nor would I, anyone I would ever train to use countermeasures would use the mental ones. Its this fact that is why the Feds are trying to use the new FMRI and those technologies, as we can beat them. Brains beat pseudo-science everytime.
Regards ...
Ok, great thx for the help and comments.. afta further researchh of counter measures i concluded that i will use biting toung technique on the Control questions and control my breathing in variations. After a revelant question i will mantain my breating to normal rate. What im confused about is mental counter measures.... such as multiplyin ur numbas in ur head.. that is used during a RQ or CQ... I dont understand how it helps in a CQ by raising ur response.... rather i see it in RQ as bypassing a question that you are "lying" such as not admitting to and keeping your mind off the subject.. Xplainn tat? sorry for the typing spelling hehehe im typing on a laptop which is really iritating cause i cant type well on it! lol BTW.. my poly is in a week i will LET EVERYone know the results of my 2nd poly. MY first 1 i passed by being honest ;) but they had sensed alot of "high responses in few questions , which really wasnt high enuf to fail me
QuoteWhat I'm confused about is mental countermeasures... such as multiplying your numbers in your head... that is used during an RQ or CQ... I don't understand how it helps in a CQ by raising your response... rather, I see it in RQ as bypassing a question that you are "lying" [about]... and keeping your mind off the subject...
(Edited for syntax)
You never want to raise your level of response on a relevant. Never, ever. By saying that you "bypass" a question, you're saying that the machine can tell that the self-produced spike comes from your physiology, not from a lie. It cannot do that. If it could, it would start bleeping "Countermeasure Alert!". All you'd be doing would be to change the source of the biofeedback, not the reading, and that's what important. You want the RQ readings to be as muted as possible, whether you're lying or truthful.
The reason you use CM's on CQ's is precisely to get peaking results. Why? The CQ's are the independent/dependent hybrid variable upon which your test is scored. That means the results of the test
depend on how much the response BFB of the
independent CQ's tallies above or below the RQ's. If the response is higher, you pass; if not, you fail; if they're equal, it's inconclusive.
However, in a sick form of symbiosis, the efficacy of the results of the CQ's themselves
depends somewhat on how well you can suppress RQ responses, or at least not aggravate them, the latter of which should be your goal. In other words, if you react more on RQ's, you're going to need higher and higher spikes on the CQ's to compensate and make the CQ's outdo the RQ's.
It's kind of funny how this relationship renders the RQ's
independent of both meaningful variables (pass/fail overall and CQ response adequacy relative to RQ's). RQ responses thus, to my mind, take a logical 3rd place even as the interrogator tells you how important they are. Everyone following me here? Good :) You thus are left with the RQ's in this form of poly test almost being irrelevant :o Almost.
Remember, the polyman doesn't care per se about the CQ's. He's not worried whether you've lied, stolen, committed adultery, broken the Sabbath, or driven drunk. He only cares about trying to get you to lie to some or all of the CQ's so that, in his mind, he can compare the CQ lies to the RQ baseline. That's what he does, period. Thus, spike those CQ's. Do what you must, be it lying or a form of CM. It'll outshine the RQ reading, and you'll have a positive result.
Expansion hereon welcome... :)
I agree that mental are the best CMs to use as there is less risk of being "discovered."
Two concerns/questions:
1. As I've said before, I've always used a combination of CMs and have always passed. Perhaps I'm lucky and perhaps my luck will run out. For this reason, I have considered changing my strategy, but I am very hesitant to change what has worked for me personally. Feedback would be welcomed on this matter.
2. Do you think a mental CM is sufficient to produce a stronger response to a CQ than a lie would to a RQ? Wouldn't such an action just as likely cause a polygrapher to accuse one of using CMs? If they are going to make the accusation one way or the other, then what difference does it make?
Will anybody admit to passing a polygraph using only mental CMs? While lying to a RQ?
You know what... i am going to lie to some of the rq's givin to me. not to be vein or anything, but it seems like lotta people on this site dosn't admit to this. my theory is.. whoever researches polygraphy has either somthing to hide or has had a undesired result in a former testing.. but as for me... i have to pass this test.. even if it takes me to lie in Rq's and have highhh readings in CQ's.! Thx for advice from all cesium .. you seem very knowlegable in this matter and underlying truth as well. so i thank both of you for your recent postings.. my polygraphy is coming soon and i do understnad now mental countermeasures raise your reaction level from what i assume heart rate cause of "thinkin" thx to all i will keep chkin bak :D
Has anyone lied to RQ's? and passed using CQ's???? Let me know! any stories.. things i shud think of thx
Quote from: underlyingtruth on Jul 10, 2006, 02:36 AM
...I've always used a combination of CMs and have always passed. Perhaps I'm lucky and perhaps my luck will run out. For this reason, I feel that I should change my strategy...
2. Do you think a mental CM is sufficient to produce a stronger response to a CQ than a lie would to a RQ? Wouldn't such an action just as likely cause a polygrapher to accuse one of using CMs? If they are going to make the accusation one way or the other, then what difference does it make?
Will anybody admit to passing a polygraph using only mental CMs? While lying to a RQ?
...I'm not sure of the etiquette of mentioning a specific polygrapher on this site.
You don't need to change your strategy based on speculated "luck". If it's worked for you before, whatever CM or other procedure you've utilized, stay with it if you don't have concerns about its adequacy. If you really feel like you've gotten by on luck, then discard whatever you feel is luck-based, or however much CM usage you deem perhaps to be causative or potentially causative of inverse returns for you.
A mental CM, if done well and intensely, probably could make your BFB soar off the chart. If you have a strong anal sphincter, you can cause a cramp in the muscle by contracting, and that would send the feedback into convulsions. So, yes, I suspect that any adverse RQ BFB could be outdone by CQ manipulation. Might the polygrapher notice? Sure. If every question and response causes the readings to spike, he's probably going to wonder what's up. That's where mental CM's are so good; he can't prove you're doing anything, whereas he -might- notice (chancy) a physical CM.
Remember, you don't want to aggravate an RQ reading. If they're high amplitude, a polyman will likely suspect deception; to them, high amplitude=probable lie. He won't accuse you of CM's, probably, based on RQ feedback; he'll accuse you of deception/lying. So, no, similar tracings resulting from CQ's vs. RQ's will likely lead to different conclusions, if any, from the interrogator.
I use mental CM's. I do what I have to do on RQ's ;) So far, I am unbeaten.
And you don't want to start outing polygraphers, imho. One of them might remember you. They do keep records... they don't walk into that room to test you without some background on you...
Quote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jul 11, 2006, 03:48 AMHas anyone lied to RQ's? and passed using CQ's???? Let me know! any stories.. things i shud think of thx
I assume CQ= CMs.
Yes, I have lied to RQs about non-illegal activities that were inappropriate to be asked.
Like, "How many times a week do you have sex and with whom?"
"In what type of sexual activities do you participate?"
"How many drinks a week do you have?"
I'll lie about those questions every time. If they would ask them more appropriately, I would answer honestly.
Like: "Are all your sexual activities legal and consensual?"
or "Do you ever drink enough to become intoxicate?"
I have no problem with those.
But yes, I have lied and I have passed using CMs.
;D
THanx FOR EVERYONE THAT HELPED! I sucessfully passed the polygraph test. I now have a job. Not noted for any "polygrapher" reading
any questions about what was the procedure done to me please feel free to ask..
key points.. stim wasnt administered and two control questions givin. test administered 3 times.. was told before taking the test
Congratulations on passing! Glad the site worked for you. What countermeasures did you employ? Did you lie on any relavent questions? (you can PM me if you don't feel comfortable answering this here).
Quote from: alterego1 on Jul 16, 2006, 01:47 PMCongratulations on passing! Glad the site worked for you. What countermeasures did you employ? Did you lie on any relavent questions? (you can PM me if you don't feel comfortable answering this here).
I'd like to know as well (post or PM if you'd like to share).
Yes, i employed the biting technique, and breathing. i did lie on one of the questions. since test was givin to me three times.. i noticed the patterns and how my revelant question was giving before the control question on ; though which i lied
Did the polygrapher have you facing him or her, or were you faced away? I'm very hesistant about my ability to perform the tongue biting technique if facing the examiner, as i've noticed that it's almost impossible to get my tongue in between my teeth without being noticed (i've noticed this while practicing in front of a mirror).
What breathing modification(s) did you make?
Congrats, Thomas. Good to see that the site helped you, and that you are happily employed as a result.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can beat the box so easily, though frauds like the poly are often readily exposed for what they are. If you don't have the truth on your side, as the poly does not, you'll be discredited quickly- like the VSA. Learn their weak spots, and you have them. I wish more people and companies who use this magic box would read this site, as well as TLBTLD. It would change a lot of minds...
thx from the congrats to all .. THis site not only helped me it also made me realize that educated people such as a polygrapher and his years of experience which i did research on.. "he conducted over thousands of polygraphs" and he was former president of some polygraph association. not to mention he was an "attorney at law".. as to your question alter ego.. i belive at the two times i taken the polygraph you will be seated faced forward and the polygraph machine will be to your right .. meaning he is behinded to he can only see the right side of your face.. i thouoght about this before LOL.. i bit my tounge on the other side... Though one thing you have to be cautious of is if the polygrahper has a camera in the room recording the process.. i noticed one in the room i was in, it looked like somthing not the obvioius if you know what i mean.. but dont let this worry you to much cause the distance of the camera mayb farther than you anticipate. and remb.. i said earlier he conducted the same test to me three times... so show him the same results every time ;)
as for my first statement i just made in the begin of the paragraph on top.. i meant as educated people can get easily fooled from someone who had no knowledge of the polygraph and within weeks performed it well :)
also my breathing i did as tlbd said, i kept a firm 2-4 sec interval from each exhale.. and in control questions i omitted a diff rate
I was thinkin why the stim test wasnt taken.. and i concluded he didnt give it to me cause i told him i had taken a test before..
That's right, this isn't complicated.
The first time I used CMs (and passed; consequently), I hadn't even read the entire book yet, just chapters 3 and 4. That should be encouraging to anybody out there who is new to all this information.
Quote from: underlyingtruth on Jun 30, 2006, 01:16 PM
Don't you understand that being completely honest doesn't work?! The times that I decided to be completely honest and spent lots of time with the polygrapher trying to justify my "lies" to the CQs were the times that I failed. That's what tee'd me off! The more honest I was, the more I failed!
In response to a question about this post:
Below is a possible example of how to fail a polygraph. (Truth or Fiction - you decide).
If the polygraph gives you the control question, "Have you ever done anything SO BAD in your life, that you would now lie about to keep someone from finding out?"
If you were completely honest, you would have to answer yes.
The polygrapher would then ask what it was you did.
You most likely didn't have anything specific in mind and would struggle to think of something non-incriminating or character debauching with which to answer.
No matter what you say, he's going to go back to the same question, "Have you... out?"
You, still being honest answer yes.
When pressed, you admit that you have nothing specific in mind, but admit that you would probably lie because it is the natural thing to do and you are trying to answer him honestly.
To which you would hear, "Oh, oh... that's no good. This is a 'character question' and lying is not a demonstration of good moral characteristic or a very mature response. Couldn't you just refuse to answer such a question? Wouldn't that be more mature than lying?
You suppose; yes, I guess it would be. Now, you're posed with the same question again, "Have you... out"
You answer; "No" and in your head continue "I could just refuse to answer."
Good, now you feel justified in your answer – even though you know that deep down inside, you'd still just lie to somebody that asked about ________ or embarrassing topic.
(Lather, Rinse, and Repeat for the other CQs)
Now, if you are a person that is very good at convincing yourself of your own justifications (i.e. This guy is right. I will never lie again, I will just refuse to answer the question because that is the moral and mature response), then you have completely screwed yourself on the polygraph.
Now, what was supposed to be a lie to the polygrapher, you now believe and think that it is appropriate to answer this way. Your extreme honesty will cause you to fail. Whatever your method, the more you are able to justify to yourself your lie to the CQs, the more likely you are to fail the polygraph.
nicely writtin, underlying.. you right.. in lamen terms of what you wrote... When a polygrapher sets you up for a control question... ADMIT less as possible so you can build up a stronger lie... Now if you were moral and self decent you will admit to everything you done which could jeopordize the CM usage! CQ's has to be higer than RQ's THATS THE BEST THEY CAN THINKKK OFF!
To avoid confusion to my last phrase /.. best they can think of is.. "goverment's , law offcials,///.. they do not know how to use thier own witt's on a subject rather they depend on a polygraph.
Do you think when someone passes the polygraph show to the public that this person is innocent ... NO!
Vice Versa
when one fails.. you are looked down upon wheter your innocent or not!!!
polygraphs sometimes dont save peopleee they doo more hurtt .
Quote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jul 18, 2006, 04:23 AMTo avoid confusion to my last phrase /..
If you don't want people to be confused, try writing something coherent.
Ok I have read the book a couple times already and I am not sure if I understand it completly. I am having problems understanding the CQ's and RQ's. I am just asking if someone can give me some expamples of these questions. Also if someone can maybe break down the steps to deply counter measures when a CQ comes up. I read about biting the tounge and anal contractions, as well as mental thoughts, and breathing however I am not sure how to use these or when exactly to use them. To me its just a little confusing and I dont want to mess up the polygraph I have to take this up comming week. If someone can break it down to a counter measures for dummies it would help so I can fully understand what is doing on.
From what I understand is that when someone is asked a CQ's your objective is to make the chart raise as much as possable then when your asked RQ's and you have to lie the chart wont raise that high. So when your asked a CQ you need to bite your tounge and use sphinctor tension when you answer these quesitons so when and why do you have to use breathing to help raise the chart as well?
Next if I understand correctly CQ's are used to make you lie right?
Well these are just some questions I have hopefully someone can help me out before my test. Thanks for your help
Ok I read the chapters again and I seen that CQ's are questions like.
1 Have you ever lied to a love one?
2 Have you ever cheated in school?
3 Are you completly trustworthly?
Well I know these are CQ's but how should one answer. Do you answer yes to question one since everyone lies from time to time to a loved one about stupid stuff and deploy counter measuers or do you say no and deploy counter measures.
The polygrapher will coerce you to answer No to these questions. If you answer yes, he will press you for specifics and then rephrase his question to "other than the things you told me..." until you are "comfortable" answering "No."
You can head off this line of questioning and save yourself some time simply by stating, "well, not about anything serious." The polygrapher will use the response to CQs to determine your truthfulness regarding the RQs.
If the response to the CQ > RQ = Pass
If the response to the CQ < RQ = Fail
If the response to the CQ = RQ = Inconclusive
Therefore, you want to artificially elevate your response to the CQs by employing CMs
I know not to show reaction to the
>>RQs so when i show a reaction to the CQS its
>>going to show being deceptive on the control questions. Will the
>>polygrapher ever fail you on the test for being deceptive or showing a
>>reaction to the CQS
From TLBTLD
QuoteProbable-Lie "Control" Questions
In a probable-lie "Control" Question "Test," the polygrapher will
tell you that you must answer all questions truthfully, but he actually
assumes that you will be deceptive when answering the "control"
questions. He will deceive you about that expectation.
This stuff is all in the FREE online book.
Quote
If you face an upcoming polygraph "test" and need to learn what to
expect as quickly as possible, you may wish to proceed directly to
Chapters 3 and 4 (p. 86 ff.) and come back to Chapters 1, 2 and 5
later.
bump ;D
Excerpts from a question to me:
>>Now when i took my poly the first thing i did was lie about a number that wrote on paper when we asked if i wrote that number... I did and used breathing blocking and tounge biting method...<<
You don't CM such a question. That's an irrelevant question, and they don't want or need to see huge spikes on those. The polyboy will just think you're screwing around with him.
Now the major part of the poly which was right after this was unlike anything that iv read online and the book published on here.. He asked 10 questions 4 different times... There were no control or irrelevant question that i could tell.. All the questions were.
>>"Are you now telling the truth about all the theft questions"
Are you now telling the truth about all the drug questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the criminal questions
Are you now telling the truth about all the alcohol questions<<
This is a pure-relevant test (for lack of a better name), and it is a rare bird. Polyboys and their handlers don't use it much; they don't like it, as they feel that they need some form of "comparison" to determine if a response trace is true or false. Never mind they can't divine the truth, anyhow.
The irrelevant question about the number you wrote was not used for comparison. Even the poly industry has conceded that irrelevants don't raise emotional/BFB levels or have the same psychological gravity as relevants, or even controls.
>>how should i have or could i have used cms more Was the number lieing question the only control question that he compared my answers to?<<
You should never try to raise a response to an RQ. Sometimes on straight R/I tests, there -may- be something to producing a slightly different tracing one out of the three times you're asked a question. However, on most R/I's (99%) and this pure RQ test...
You don't want to do mental CMs. Use behavioral ones... relaxed, at peace in your own mind, positive body language, not ingratiating or defensive. Since polygraphy is an art under the guise of science, influencing the artist can get you a more desirable portrait. He might get a feeling that you're a legit person, which could affect his judgment of his lines and blips...
Again, do not mentally CM on this type of test, and never mentally CM relevants or irrelevants (like # questions). You only CM control questions, the "have you ever lied to your mother" types... :)
Quote from: cesium_133 on Aug 31, 2006, 09:49 PMExcerpts from a question to me:
>>Now when i took my poly the first thing i did was lie about a number that wrote on paper when we asked if i wrote that number... I did and used breathing blocking and tounge biting method...<<
You don't CM such a question. That's an irrelevant question, and they don't want or need to see huge spikes on those. The polyboy will just think you're screwing around with him.
Actually, that question is not an irrelevant question. It's part of the so-called stim test, also called an acquaintance test. As noted in
The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, it may be beneficial to create a reaction when "lying" about the number one actually wrote in order to make the polygrapher believe that one is a good candidate for polygraph "testing" and will show a strong response when lying.
That Thomas Delacy supposed this question on the stim test to be a "control" question indicates that he's very confused about polygraph procedure.
You're right, George :) Thanks. That's what I get for writing while sleepy |-)
Yes, to those who read this: the number deal, where polyboy writes 1-9 on a piece of paper and has you "lie" about the one you picked, is part of the stim test. This is a trick the polyboy plays to assure you that you can respond to a lie. No matter how your trace comes out to the directed misrepresentation (which it really is), he'll very likely tell you that you peaked highly, that you can't tell a lie without your body betraying you. This is a big screwjob, nothing more, and is part of his bag of tricks.
I agree with George that you might wish to augment your reaction to the number (or card trick, or whatever) stim. Doing so will produce a larger spike, which the polyman may well take as a good lie tracing. If so, then your other responses (lie or truth) will have less amplitude and thus will appear less damning.
I would say that if a variation of the question, as "Did you pick 3 earlier?", (assuming you did), were presented again in the meat of the in-test, -that- would be an irrelevant (on a CQT)...
Nice catch of my slip, George... ;D
Quote from: George W. Maschke on Sep 01, 2006, 03:42 AM
That Thomas Delacy supposed this question on the stim test to be a "control" question indicates that he's very confused about polygraph procedure.
Are we sure Thomas Delacy wrote that message? It's not on his history list and his earlier posts imply that all of the questions he was asked were done three times. A stim test would not be administered three times.
Below is the relevant quote:
Quote from: Thomas_Delacy on Jul 16, 2006, 04:10 AM
key points.. stim wasnt administered and two control questions givin. test administered 3 times.. was told before taking the test
I admit the writing style is similar to Delacy's posts... If in fact Delacy wrote that and the question was asked to him three times, it seems like it was being used as a directed lie question.
Onesimus, as i said in my post of having the test administered. The STIM test was never givin; so this could be in result cause i have told him i was givin a polygraph test before. The actual polygraph test was givin to me THREE times in random order. About ten questions.
Same control questions was givin in a different order as well; i just dont remember if it was givin after the same question,.
bump