IF YOU FAIL THE VERMONT STATE POLICE POLYGRAPH YOU WILL BE TOTALLY DISBARRED FROM EMPLOYMENT EVEN IF YOU ASK TO HAVE IT REVIEWED I WENT UP FOR A POLYGRAPH INTERVIEW AND THE POLYGRAPHER FAILED ME ON CONTROL QUESTIONS AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS UNIT ABOUT IT{I AM A OUT OF STATE POLICE OFFICER] I WENT TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE POLICE AND RECENTLY GOT A RESPONSE FOR THE HEAD OF THE POLYGRAPH UNIT THAT STATES THAT I AM PERMANTELY REJECTED FROM
EMPOLYMENT WITH THEM AND THE POLYGRAPHER DENIES EVER BRINGING UP I.A. WHAT GIVES????? E-MAIL ME AT snowstud98@hotmail.com Erik :
Same crap happened to me recently .I didn't fail but it was inconclusive and he didn't pass me. He said my breathing was to erratic and my bodies responses were not normal. Granted I was controlling my breathing and thinking crazy thoughts on control questions. It was funny he did everything I read in the book from the stim number test to the chair with wheels and even explaining the polygraph as a machine holyer than god. And when I signed the form at the end after I made a big stink becuaze he said I was controlling my blood presure...give me a break guy. But I didn't sign the part that said "I do not want a copy of the test" and he goes oh right here you forgot one." And then I explained the question to him. There tricky and even though I didn't pass I beat the asshole. They said that after review I may be able to re start the whole process next year..fuck them.im.never taking another one. Questions about sex with my girlfriend, personal questions about family. Completely un needed if you can't judge someones character after a oral board what's the point..just do the poly first and save all the trouble..
QuoteHe said my breathing was to erratic and my bodies responses were not normal. Granted I was controlling my breathing and thinking crazy thoughts on control questions.
There tricky and even though I didn't pass I beat the asshole.
You did not beat anything, you got caught using counter measures.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 05:23 AMYou did not beat anything, you got caught using counter measures.
I think if he had failed due to countermeasure usage then it could be accurately said that he was "caught" using countermeasures.
Since he was given an inconclusive, it seems much more likely that the polygraph operator simply guessed correctly that the subject was using countermeasures but was unable to prove it.
That, of course, leads to the inevitable conclusion that countermeasure "detection" is often, if not always, simply a guess on the part of the polygraph operator. How often do they guess correctly? At least some of the time, as evidenced by the above-referenced post. How often are they incorrect?
More importantly, why are they guessing at all if the polygraph procedure for detecting deception is purportedly a scientific process?
Sergeant,
As an examiner, I do assign the term Inconclusive to an examination where I have observed countermeasure usage. The problem examinees have when using counter measures is the inability to stop reactions to relevant issue questions while creating reactions to control questions. When scored the score is called inconclusive. We generally do not say "Counter Measures were used", we simply say the exam is inconclusive and question the individual about breathing and blood pressure being out of the normal range.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 01:47 PMwhere I have observed countermeasure usage
Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.
Quote from: stefano on Jun 03, 2011, 02:37 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 01:47 PMwhere I have observed countermeasure usage
Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.
The term "Properly using countermeasures" is the key. If you have extensive knowledge regarding polygraph. physiology and psychology you may be able to "properly" use countermeasures and not be "detected". Also practice with an examiner would be helpful. Polygraph is not 100% accurate, it is about 86% on screening examinations IF the examiner is properly trained and experienced. The 86% comes from field studies and lab studies.
It is
my personal opinion polygraph should never be used as a stand alone test that disqualifies an applicant. There should always be other information developed after a failed polygraph to support disqualification.
BB
I agree that haphazard attempts at countermeasures would present as chart anomalies which an examiner could say invalidates the collected data. I would not term this activity as a countermeasure, but rather an attempt at sabotage.
Whenever I refer to countermeasures, I refer to properly deployed countermeasures; you are correct, it is a skill requiring refinement and practice.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 02:52 PMQuote from: stefano on Jun 03, 2011, 02:37 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 01:47 PMwhere I have observed countermeasure usage
Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.
The term "Properly using countermeasures" is the key. If you have extensive knowledge regarding polygraph. physiology and psychology you may be able to "properly" use countermeasures and not be "detected". Also practice with an examiner would be helpful. Polygraph is not 100% accurate, it is about 86% on screening examinations IF the examiner is properly trained and experienced. The 86% comes from field studies and lab studies.
It is my personal opinion polygraph should never be used as a stand alone test that disqualifies an applicant. There should always be other information developed after a failed polygraph to support disqualification.
BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA- but you keep on believing that propaganda.
Your command of the English language is impressive. I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage. Very logical and impressive.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 09:45 PMYour command of the English language is impressive. I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage. Very logical and impressive.
Yes, it is - if that is the best you have, I really feel sorry for you. Your profession is a joke. I have seen people pass polys with flying colors, who later ADMITTED to committing said acts. Explain that one. I have also seen GOOD men, high ranking mil personnel be accused of terrorism by another agency, or during the hiring phase, when the this could be furthest from the truth.
Just because you believe in your "Never-Never Land" and Peter Pan doesn't mean the rest of us do, nor should we. Your narrow minded NON-LOGIC speaks volumes when you put your full faith and credit into a FALLIBLE machine and then try to ascertain "truth or false" from said machine, with the human error factor. Yep, I have plenty of ocean front property for sale in Arizona if your interested...
By the way, the educated will always outweigh the lemmings such as you...
Quote from: depressed on Jun 03, 2011, 10:05 PMBy the way, the educated will always outweigh the lemmings such as you...
Depressed: back it down a couple notches. there are many others who deserve this kind of treatment, but bill_brown is among the most civil and open minded.
And besides, it's college, not collage.
Mr. Truth,
Sorry about the spelling error, I will be more attentive.
Depressed,
I am sorry for your experience. We have errors in polygraph and it adversely affects the lives of those involved. Many examiners do advise employers of this fact and encourage the employer to do a complete background and not rely on the polygraph as the final authority. Not all employers listen.
There will always be abuses of polygraph, this is true in all professions. The polygraph community has made tremendous strides by changing many rules and guidelines with the American Polygraph Association and the American Association of Police Polygraphers. We are continuing to work on research which will aid us in conducting examinations.
I am sorry for your plight, and wish it were different for you.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 01:47 PMSergeant,
As an examiner, I do assign the term Inconclusive to an examination where I have observed countermeasure usage.
Can you explain why you do this? It seems counterintuitive...
If I arrest someone for DUI and see them jamming their tongue into the tube of the Intoxilyzer, I am not going to score that as anything other than a refusal. I wouldn't score it as "could not complete test for some unknown reason" or anything like that.
If I was a polygraph examiner and I detected countermeasures, why would I score that as inconclusive? The most logical reason, in my opinion, is that the examiner is guessing about countermeasure usage, rather than definitively detecting countermeasure usage. I could see some examiners in that instance scoring the test as inconclusive in that case, knowing there is a chance they have guessed incorrectly.
Sergeant,
If I observe a physical countermeasure, I would call it a movement, which is an artifact on polygraph and note it as such.
With intoxilyzer you don't "Score" you get a print out, noting to score. Polygraph gets numerical scores for each component on each question. If the score falls between certain numbers, it is inconclusive. I may observe tracings that are indicative of countermeasures. I would mention this in my report. Physical countermeasures are observable in most cases and are also mentioned in the report.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 05, 2011, 08:10 PMSergeant,
If I observe a physical countermeasure, I would call it a movement, which is an artifact on polygraph and note it as such.
With intoxilyzer you don't "Score" you get a print out, noting to score. Polygraph gets numerical scores for each component on each question. If the score falls between certain numbers, it is inconclusive. I may observe tracings that are indicative of countermeasures. I would mention this in my report. Physical countermeasures are observable in most cases and are also mentioned in the report.
With regards to the Intoxilyzer, that's not really correct. If the subject cooperates with the Intoxilyzer there is nothing to "score" because the instrument does the analysis. However, if the subject is playing games, such as pretending to not be able to exhale, or blocking the tube with his tongue, or inhaling rather than exhaling, the officer conducting the test is required to make a judgment call as to whether the test subject is truly confused or is willfully refusing to go along with the test. In the latter case, the officer considers the subject's actions a refusal and processes the remainder of the case as such.
It would seem to me that if polygraph operators could indeed reliably detect countermeasure use they would certainly "fail" any subject caught using them. I do not see any logical reason why that would not happen, if in fact polygraph operators can positively detect countermeasures and are not just guessing.
In the case of a DUI arrest, if the subject wanted to fight the "refusal" in court, it would be very easy to simply show the judge the video recording of the arrest processing and point out something like, "Here is where he is pressing his tongue against the tube. Here's where I told him not to do that again or it would be a refusal. Here's where he is once again jamming his tongue against the tube." And the judge would then agree that the subject refused. I've done that (in various forms) many, many times.
If countermeasures could be detected there is no reason why the polygraph industry, which clearly considers countermeasures to be cheating, would
not fail anyone they could show was using countermeasures.
Of course, if the "detection" of countermeasures consists of the "instinct" or the "feeling" of the polygraph examiner, that might be a bit tough to stand behind. I wouldn't want to arrest someone after an interview even if I was sure they were lying unless I had some evidence to back it up. I can imagine that polygraph operators don't want to mark someone as "failed due to countermeasure usage" unless they can back it up with more than a gut feeling or a "movement" on a polygraph chart.
Sergeant,
With intoxalyzer it does the calculations. With polygraph I do the calculations. If I observe a person manipulating the tracings by physical movements, I do get a score which indicates "Inconclusive" in most cases. I do mention in the report that countermeasures were used and elaborate on what I observed.
If the subject is using mental countermeasures, I cannot see, hear or know for sure. There are attributes in the tracings which indicate countermeasures were used, and I will articulate this in the report also. I am not positive they used countermeasures, I suspect it based on the tracings I am observing.
Certain anomalies in the tracings are present on persons using mental countermeasures that are consistent with mental countermeasures. I cannot, in all good faith, tell you that we catch all persons that are using these tactics, we do catch some.
If you are very educated in polygraph and have practiced with an examiner or with an instrument, and are able to produce "normal" charts, I cannot detect the countermeasures.
I don't recall in my long career anyone being arrested based only on a polygraph result. I never make a WAG on polygraph, I use chart interpretation and the resultant score to make any decision.
With polygraph the score (numerical) determines the outcome. A Significant Response indicates deception, No Significant Response indicates truthful, and anything in between is considered Inconclusive. When countermeasures are used, we "generally" have an Inconclusive score. Therefore I call it Inconclusive. The observation of countermeasures are placed in the report.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 06, 2011, 07:58 AMThere are attributes in the tracings which indicate countermeasures were used
This is speculative and arrogant. You cannot detect mental countermeasures and it's folly for you to put such in a report.
I am not positive they used countermeasures, I suspect it based on the tracings I am observing.
Stefano,
I said it is suspected and that is what I put in the report. I try not to be arrogant. The tracings I have observed when persons use mental countermeasures are distinctive in some aspects, and remember these individuals are not "trained" in their usage. The term "Haphazard" would apply.
Dear Bill_Brown,
You are straightforward in your presentations and your confidence in your craft. I do not agree with you or your representations but I do appreciate your effort to describe why you believe in your results.
We will let the readers decide for themselves.
I do think that the the polygraph exam used in applicant prescreening is counterproductive and inefficient. Time will tell. The federal applicants were astronomical a few years ago which made any collateral damage to failed applicants inconsequential. I believe this country will no longer find that the case in the future.
Nice to joust with you. We can agree to disagree, we would not probably share a barbecue this weekend. A discussion can be had in this country without people calling each other an idiot just because they believe in what they believe in.
Regards.
Fair Chance,
Thank you for being open minded. I do try to be straight forward and honest. I do agree with your statement regarding employment screening.
Screening is the least accurate testing we do, and if employers make decisions based solely on polygraph results, we loose good candidates. I advocate using background investigators to discover new information if an applicant shows deception and there are no admissions.
We may be able to attend a weekend BBQ, I'm not oppositional. I enjoy learning from the postings on this web site. It causes me to be careful and use caution before labeling anyone as untruthful. I am sure I do make errors on occasion.
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 07, 2011, 12:31 PMFair Chance,
Thank you for being open minded. I do try to be straight forward and honest. I do agree with your statement regarding employment screening.
Screening is the least accurate testing we do, and if employers make decisions based solely on polygraph results, we loose good candidates. I advocate using background investigators to discover new information if an applicant shows deception and there are no admissions.
We may be able to attend a weekend BBQ, I'm not oppositional. I enjoy learning from the postings on this web site. It causes me to be careful and use caution before labeling anyone as untruthful. I am sure I do make errors on occasion.
Unfortunately, we all know that that is not the case. The poly is used as the say all be all, and once you fail, regardless if you were Jesus Christ himself, it's over. So why then do agencies use this failed means of determining the future of individuals who, in most cases, are extremely qualified? This only results in taking the bottom of the barrel candidates...
Quote from: depressed on Jun 09, 2011, 01:13 AMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 07, 2011, 12:31 PMFair Chance,
Thank you for being open minded. I do try to be straight forward and honest. I do agree with your statement regarding employment screening.
Screening is the least accurate testing we do, and if employers make decisions based solely on polygraph results, we loose good candidates. I advocate using background investigators to discover new information if an applicant shows deception and there are no admissions.
We may be able to attend a weekend BBQ, I'm not oppositional. I enjoy learning from the postings on this web site. It causes me to be careful and use caution before labeling anyone as untruthful. I am sure I do make errors on occasion.
Unfortunately, we all know that that is not the case. The poly is used as the say all be all, and once you fail, regardless if you were Jesus Christ himself, it's over. So why then do agencies use this failed means of determining the future of individuals who, in most cases, are extremely qualified? This only results in taking the bottom of the barrel candidates...
I cannot answer for "all agencies". I do not agree with your statement regarding only taking bottom of the barrel candidates. The ones selected are actually top notch individuals in most cases.
Plain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test. It is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked. What makes it ridiculous is that it spiked because of a perception I had in my mind, not related to the question. I answered the questions honestly. I was so honest with these people, by the time they had written down everything I had done I looked like a Somalian pirate. I had nothing left to hide. I think my tester knew this too, he tried to work with me. He asked me the set of questions 5 times. The question I failed on, "have you ever committed a serious crime"? I haven't. What makes this deal so much sweater is one of the guys who I can assume passed said something in the waiting room. "I don't really care if I get this job or not, if I don't, I will just go back to working at the jail. I suspect only a punk would say something like that while in the application process of a job, it sounded so juvenile. Future Missouri State Trooper, right there.
QuotePlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test.
The circus always needs someone to walk behind the elephants with the big shovel.
QuoteIt is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked.
And you got caught..you got what you deserved.
QuoteI answered the questions honestly.
Then why did you feel it necessary to control your breathing? Oh wait, I already know...because you're stupid!
:D ;D :D ;D
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 06, 2017, 01:39 PMQuotePlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test.
The circus always needs someone to walk behind the elephants with the big shovel.
QuoteIt is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked.
And you got caught..you got what you deserved.
QuoteI answered the questions honestly.
Then why did you feel it necessary to control your breathing? Oh wait, I already know...because you're stupid!
:D ;D :D ;D
How heartless. Here's a guy who probably has mouths to feed and worked hard to get where he is and Quickfix thinks that ruining a man's life is funny. These miscreants in the polygraph field are despicable.
Quickfix, let me ask you a simple yes or no question that I doubt you are capable of answering......
Is it possible for a person who is telling the truth to fail a polygraph exam?
Quote from: Wandersmann on Jan 10, 2017, 10:05 PMIs it possible for a person who is telling the truth to fail a polygraph exam?
This is a clear question. Aunty would also like to know your answer.
"Failure" is a broad term, and can mean any result other than "NSR/NDI", so allow me to reword your question to "can a truthful person not favorably complete an exam?" to account for the inconclusive as well as the significant response/deception indicated.
The polygraph is not a "lie detector". It is a diagnostic instrument which monitors and records physiological responses to applied stimuli. The are several reasons why someone's exam results may not be favorable. When significant and specific responses are noted at a particular relevant question, it means that the examinee is thinking about something specific every time examinee hears that question. It might be relevant, it might not be relevant, but what for whatever the reaon, it is significant to that examinee. It might be because the examinee is indeed lying to the relevant issue, or has some concern that examinee thinks is relevant but may not be to the examiner. If examinee chooses not to discuss why that question is significant, then it ends there. It is examinee's responsibility to discuss any and all concerns, regardless of relevance. It's called "cooperate and graduate".
With that said, when someone comes to the polygraph room with the intent to engage in countermeasures, does not successfully complete the polygraph, then comes on this site to piss and moan about it, they get NO SYMPATHY from me. They are indeed stupid; stupid for believing that could pull one over on us. I will continue to mock them at every opportunity. I couldn't give a rat's ass how many mouths they have to feed, or whether their dream is shattered. They came into the polygraph room with eyes open and aware of the consequences of getting caught using CMs. If they were lying about the relevant questions, then they "failed" anyway. If they were indeed truthful (primarily in premployment) and tried to "help themselves" pass, they have no one to blame but themselves. Period.
BTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 11, 2017, 03:11 PMBTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Quickfix, I have to give you credit. Your post was cogent and well written and did not include your normal ad hominem attacks. That being said, I vehemently disagree with everything you said. I think the biggest problem lies with the fact that you and I come from two different planets. Although I am part of the old baby-boomer generation that certainly was far from perfect, you are obviously one of the disrespectful, self-serving, self-righteous, narcissistic millennial generation who throws around words like honesty and integrity without a real clue as to what they mean.
A person's hard earned reputation is not earned on a morning polygraph exam, it is the product of years of proving one's self and suffering by doing the right thing. It was so important that our founding fathers believed in dueling to the death if anyone ever questioned their integrity. To think that a lifetime of proven honesty can be completely erased by one bad polygraph session is insane.
You say that no one is ruined by the polygraph, that is false. You are like a bomber pilot who never sees the carnage he left behind. I know of people suffering physical, emotional, financial and other significant damage because of the polygraph hell they have endured. For your information, people work their asses off and dedicate their lives to be law enforcement officers and intelligence officials. Taking that away from them is no different that taking away a license to practice law from an attorney or taking away a license to practice medicine from a doctor. Like you yourself said, shoveling elephant crap at the circus is about all that is left for someone who dedicated their life to L.E. or intelligence only to have it taken away by your witchcraft.
Here is the ultimate kicker - I know of two people, there are many more, who have been fired for cause, for lying or falsifying records. They were PROVEN GUILTY and ultimately admitted fault. Despite this, they were both able to work for the same agency that fired them as contractors with a Secret and TS clearance despite being fired for cause. Someone who fails a polygraph, no
proof of any wrong doing, no
due process, is not only fired, but complete access is denied and they can't even come back to the same building as a janitor.
Soviet-style banishment for life! How can this be ? There is only one explanation. You polygraph clowns are so determined to commit your profitable fraud that you will go to any lengths and ruin whoever is convenient to justify your miserable profession.
I advise people not to use countermeasures or research the polygraph not because I morally object, but because banishing people for countermeasures is the polygraph industry's fraud d'jour. In reality, people who use countermeasures are honorable because they are resisting tyranny and you lack honesty and integrity because you intentionally ruin innocent people for personal gain. You bear false witness. Anyone who realizes that a lifetime of proven integrity can be washed away by an hour on the box is justified to do what they need to do. Using the polygraph to determine truth is no different than throwing dice or flipping a coin to determine truth. If I knew I was honest and had nothing to hide, yet my sacred honor was going to be measured by a roll of the dice I would be justified to roll loaded dice. Your stupid polygraph game has nothing to do with honesty or integrity.
The fact that more people are now being ousted because of alleged, yet unproven, countermeasures than DI or inconclusive shows that people are figuring out your fraud. You have proven liars like DCI Clapper protecting you for now and your billion dollar scam will continue. Clapper and all of the moral cowards who head our executive branch agencies don't have the moral courage to take on your industry and are happy to support you for self-gain. If people of honor and integrity in authority ever figure out what is going down, you will be done. Heads will roll. All of you should either be imprisoned or sued out of existence. You guys are on the rise right now, but the body-count of innocent victims is also rising. You should worry.
Are you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Will do. It's like a prisoner in the gulag complaining to Stalin, but I will continue to do so. I like the idea of running for office. Thanks.
QuoteIF YOU FAIL THE VERMONT STATE POLICE POLYGRAPH YOU WILL BE TOTALLY DISBARRED FROM EMPLOYMENT EVEN IF YOU ASK TO HAVE IT REVIEWED I WENT UP FOR A POLYGRAPH INTERVIEW AND THE POLYGRAPHER FAILED ME ON CONTROL QUESTIONS AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS UNIT ABOUT IT{I AM A OUT OF STATE POLICE OFFICER] I WENT TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE POLICE AND RECENTLY GOT A RESPONSE FOR THE HEAD OF THE POLYGRAPH UNIT THAT STATES THAT I AM PERMANTELY REJECTED FROM
EMPOLYMENT WITH THEM AND THE POLYGRAPHER DENIES EVER BRINGING UP I.A. WHAT GIVES????? E-MAIL ME AT snowstud98@hotmail.com Erik :
That's pretty sad news to be coming from the supposedly "progressive" state which gave us Bernie Sanders! :(
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Hey "Quickfix", someone should turn your name in, to: Info@svr.gov.ru ! ;D
Quote from: Wandersmann on Jan 10, 2017, 10:05 PMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 06, 2017, 01:39 PMQuotePlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test.
The circus always needs someone to walk behind the elephants with the big shovel.
QuoteIt is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked.
And you got caught..you got what you deserved.
QuoteI answered the questions honestly.
Then why did you feel it necessary to control your breathing? Oh wait, I already know...because you're stupid!
:D ;D :D ;D
How heartless. Here's a guy who probably has mouths to feed and worked hard to get where he is and Quickfix thinks that ruining a man's life is funny. These miscreants in the polygraph field are despicable.
Quickfix, let me ask you a simple yes or no question that I doubt you are capable of answering......
Is it possible for a person who is telling the truth to fail a polygraph exam?
Unfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC. >:(
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
In your case, quickfix, I'd sooner write to info@fsb.gov.ru or info@svr.gov.ru . :)
Quote from: quickfix on Jan 11, 2017, 03:11 PM"Failure" is a broad term, and can mean any result other than "NSR/NDI", so allow me to reword your question to "can a truthful person not favorably complete an exam?" to account for the inconclusive as well as the significant response/deception indicated.
The polygraph is not a "lie detector". It is a diagnostic instrument which monitors and records physiological responses to applied stimuli. The are several reasons why someone's exam results may not be favorable. When significant and specific responses are noted at a particular relevant question, it means that the examinee is thinking about something specific every time examinee hears that question. It might be relevant, it might not be relevant, but what for whatever the reaon, it is significant to that examinee. It might be because the examinee is indeed lying to the relevant issue, or has some concern that examinee thinks is relevant but may not be to the examiner. If examinee chooses not to discuss why that question is significant, then it ends there. It is examinee's responsibility to discuss any and all concerns, regardless of relevance. It's called "cooperate and graduate".
With that said, when someone comes to the polygraph room with the intent to engage in countermeasures, does not successfully complete the polygraph, then comes on this site to piss and moan about it, they get NO SYMPATHY from me. They are indeed stupid; stupid for believing that could pull one over on us. I will continue to mock them at every opportunity. I couldn't give a rat's ass how many mouths they have to feed, or whether their dream is shattered. They came into the polygraph room with eyes open and aware of the consequences of getting caught using CMs. If they were lying about the relevant questions, then they "failed" anyway. If they were indeed truthful (primarily in premployment) and tried to "help themselves" pass, they have no one to blame but themselves. Period.
BTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Of course, back when I suffered the "polygraph", the liars in the IC (such as "quickfix", no doubt) were insisting that polygraph CM's simply did not exist; that they were merely a myth spread by the KGB to encourage more "moles"! ;D :D
Just don't forget: It's not only the polygraph; it's also the BI's and the jerks who conduct them, as well as those idiots in the IC who make decisions based upon them. >:(
Quote from: 4065642A0A0 on Jan 05, 2017, 03:41 PMPlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test. It is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked. What makes it ridiculous is that it spiked because of a perception I had in my mind, not related to the question. I answered the questions honestly. I was so honest with these people, by the time they had written down everything I had done I looked like a Somalian pirate. I had nothing left to hide. I think my tester knew this too, he tried to work with me. He asked me the set of questions 5 times. The question I failed on, "have you ever committed a serious crime"? I haven't. What makes this deal so much sweater is one of the guys who I can assume passed said something in the waiting room. "I don't really care if I get this job or not, if I don't, I will just go back to working at the jail. I suspect only a punk would say something like that while in the application process of a job, it sounded so juvenile. Future Missouri State Trooper, right there.
When you say "permanently banned from employment in MO", I presume that you're referring to state LEO positions in the "Show Me State"? :-?
Quote from: xenonman on Jan 17, 2017, 02:16 AMUnfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC. >:(
Please refrain from personal attacks/name-calling on this forum.
Quote from: 7D787175721C0 on Jan 17, 2017, 02:42 AMQuote from: xenonman on Jan 17, 2017, 02:16 AMUnfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC. >:(
Please refrain from personal attacks/name-calling on this forum.
Isn't that quickfix's principal "raison d'etre" ? lol :)
Quote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 09:45 PMYour command of the English language is impressive. I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage. Very logical and impressive.
Probably one only needs a 2-year associate degree to be a state trooper in VT! ;D