I underwent a polygraph examination for a federal law enforcement position approximately eight weeks ago and still have not heard if I passed/failed.
At the conclusion of the exam, I was told it was "obvious" I had issues relating to the drug questions, specifically use and selling (acting as a middle-man in a drug deal). Of course, this was completely false and I stuck to my guns and denied such involvement. I only admitted to what was true and in my paperwork (marijuana experimentation 10+ years ago). I did mention that I might have been bothered by the fact that a family member had been arrested and served time for possessing and selling illegal drugs. He/she responded that that would not have affected the results.
I am currently employed by another federal law enforcement agency and it was suggested that maybe I had mishandled drug evidence and that was what was bothering me. Also not true. I informed him/her that I had undergone (more than one) BI in the past five years because of the clearances I hold and each has corroborated the information on my application. He/she did not want to hear this.
It was very difficult for me to not become irritated by such suggestions, but I maintained my composure. He/she must have "forgotten" that I was already part of the "fraternity" and experienced in interrogation tactics (it was my belief he/she was not entirely forthright during the post-exam interrogation).
He/she never told me I "failed," but that was clearly how I felt when I left. He/she told me that he/she could not conduct additional tests unless I provided him/her with additional information. Again, as no additional information was available, I had nothing more to offer other than my previous explanation (familial drug conviction). He/she told me HQ would make the final decision. After almost two months, I have not heard anything other than on more than one occasion after inquiring, that it was being "processed."
I hate to speculate, but I wouldn't think it would take this long to send me a BQA letter. But then again, I felt I had failed when I left.
I only learned of this site after the poly and I did not attempt any CM. I relied on the truth (and to think doing so left me open to suggestions that I have not only used drugs while in my current position (undergone two urine tests - negative), but also involved in the selling of drugs.
Any input/observations would be appreciated.
Regards,
Anonymous
Quote from: Anonymous on Feb 26, 2004, 03:19 PMI underwent a polygraph examination for a federal law enforcement position approximately eight weeks ago and still have not heard if I passed/failed.
....
I am currently employed by another federal law enforcement agency and it was suggested that maybe I had mishandled drug evidence and that was what was bothering me. Also not true. I informed him/her that I had undergone (more than one) BI in the past five years because of the clearances I hold and each has corroborated the information on my application. He/she did not want to hear this.
You can take some comfort in knowing polygraphy is not an exact science - nor possibly even an inexact science. If you have read TLBTLD you will know why the polygraph is especially inaccurate amongst more honest than average folks. Perhaps you were not sufficiently aroused by the control(comparison) questions. Do you remember them and how you reacted to them?
-Marty
Anonymous,
Your just another victim of the 'Justice' system!
What happened to you has happened to thousands of other LE applicants, including those already in 'the club'.
Wild, unsupported accusations and then a luke warm closing of, 'Washington decides'.
The polygraph is a fraud! - now you know through your personal experience.
Keep charging though!!!- If you did fail (in their eyes), it won't necessarily stop you from being hired with another agency.
As these polygraphers continue clearing serial killers, spies, criminal cops and criminal CEOs as truthful and upright citizens, their support base will finally erode.
But as the polygraphers are forced out of their business, look for a sharp increase in pet psychics, hair replacement tonic salesmen and tarrot card readers.
Anonymous,
The nature of the post-test interrogation to which you were subjected does suggest that your polygrapher scored your charts as "deception indicated" or at best, "inconclusive." But the fact that you were not specifically accused of deception, but rather of having "issues," may be a good sign. It's possible that you passed, but the polygrapher was just fishing for an admission.
It doesn't take eight weeks to review a polygraph chart. It may also be politically sensitive for a federal law enforcement agency to accuse an employee of another federal law enforcement agency of deception on the polygraph. Perhaps your case is being handled differently than it would have been otherwise. But then again, perhaps no news is good news.
You are right in your belief that your polygrapher was not entirely forthright during the post-test interrogation. For example, his/her assertion that your possible concern over a family member having been arrested and served time for possessing and selling illegal drugs could not have affected the results was a blatant lie.
UPDATE: After eight months and continually being told still "in process" when inquiring about my status, I learned via phone that a "letter" was on the way. This letter, I suspect is a DQ/BQA letter.
I after six months or so, I became convinced I passed, as surely it does not take this long to evaluate my poly charts. I have yet to receive this letter, but I am not sure what my next step will be. I am completely dumbfounded as to what/why this happened. Do I ask for a retest? Do I let it go? I now find myself trying to prove that which numerous BIs have already proved.
The bottom line is that a federal law enforcement agency has just accused a veteran federal law enforcement agent of another agency, of deception on a polygraph. I am only now beginning to appreciate the gravity of the situation at hand. This is serious. I can only wonder what may happen when I have to undergo another BI for my clearances: Have you ever undergone a polygraph exam? "Yes". Did you pass? "No, I was accused of acting as a middleman in a drug deal, transporting drugs, and tampering with drug evidence while employed in my current position". It is almost hard not to laugh were it not so damn outrageous.
Not only am I dumbfounded, but I am extremely angry that my integrity has been called into question by a machine and the polygrapher operating said machine.
Quote from: Anonymous on Jul 07, 2004, 03:18 PMUPDATE: After eight months and continually being told still "in process" when inquiring about my status, I learned via phone that a "letter" was on the way. This letter, I suspect is a DQ/BQA letter.
I after six months or so, I became convinced I passed, as surely it does not take this long to evaluate my poly charts. I have yet to receive this letter, but I am not sure what my next step will be. I am completely dumbfounded as to what/why this happened. Do I ask for a retest? Do I let it go? I now find myself trying to prove that which numerous BIs have already proved.
The bottom line is that a federal law enforcement agency has just accused a veteran federal law enforcement agent of another agency, of deception on a polygraph. I am only now beginning to appreciate the gravity of the situation at hand. This is serious. I can only wonder what may happen when I have to undergo another BI for my clearances: Have you ever undergone a polygraph exam? "Yes". Did you pass? "No, I was accused of acting as a middleman in a drug deal, transporting drugs, and tampering with drug evidence while employed in my current position". It is almost hard not to laugh were it not so damn outrageous.
Not only am I dumbfounded, but I am extremely angry that my integrity has been called into question by a machine and the polygrapher operating said machine.
After reading your posts over the past few months, I am not at all surprised that you were rejected. As a matter of fact if you had been hired I would be "dumbfounded and extremely angry" that a person like you would be making a living from my tax money.
The UPDATE post above (July 7) was only my second posting on this board. My first post was on Feb. 26 (genesis of this thread). I suspect I am not the only one posting as "Anonymous."
Careful reading of my two previous posts reveal that I am currently employed as a federal agent and thus already "make a living" from your (and my) "tax money."
Quote from: Anonymous on Dec 31, 1969, 07:00 PMThe UPDATE post above (July 7) was only my second posting on this board. My first post was on Feb. 26 (genesis of this thread). I suspect I am not the only one posting as "Anonymous."
Careful reading of my two previous posts reveal that I am currently employed as a federal agent and thus already "make a living" from your (and my) "tax money." [/quote
Sorry, I thought you were that other lying asshole
Anonymous,
Having had a similar experience (http://antipolygraph.org/statements/statement-003.shtml) myself, I fully understand your feeling of being both dumbfounded and angry at having had your integrity called into question by such voodoo science as polygraphy.
Assuming that the letter you receive is indeed a DQ letter, I think it would be prudent for you to contest the polygraph results in writing and request a "re-test," if only to document the fact that you do not accept the polygrapher's accusations. See Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (http://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf) for additional suggestions on contesting false positive results.
You might also wish to compare notes with Fair Chance (http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=;action=viewprofile;username=Fair_Chance), a registered user of this message board who, as a federal law enforcement officer, had an experience not unsimilar to yours.
Quote from: I-SMELL-BS on Jul 07, 2004, 04:26 PM
After reading your posts over the past few months, I am not at all surprised that you were rejected. As a matter of fact if you had been hired I would be "dumbfounded and extremely angry" that a person like you would be making a living from my tax money.
from your lack of civility and ability to make an argument based on fact, I am confident in the FACT that you probably work at a fast food restaurant where all you are required to do is press buttons which are already conveniently labeled for you. Therefore, since your present salary entitles you to receive all your taxes back at the end of the year, it really isn't your tax dollars that are paying for anything.
Unfortunately, I wasn't the first to say this to you, but I will repeat it for everyone because it only gives some insight into the type of loser you really are.
Only a dumbass like you can manage to misspell "DUMBASS".
Quote from: dimas on Jul 10, 2004, 11:13 PM
from your lack of civility and ability to make an argument based on fact, I am confident in the FACT that you probably work at a fast food restaurant where all you are required to do is press buttons which are already conveniently labeled for you. Therefore, since your present salary entitles you to receive all your taxes back at the end of the year, it really isn't your tax dollars that are paying for anything.
Unfortunately, I wasn't the first to say this to you, but I will repeat it for everyone because it only gives some insight into the type of loser you really are.
Only a dumbass like you can manage to misspell "DUMBASS".
I wasn't talking to you dimas, but since love to stick you nose in I will answer you. I was actually playing with variations of your name, you know like dimwit, dumass, etc. I know that dumbass has a b and I'm sure you do too since you are obviously one yourself.
Dimas,
I disagree with your assessment that ISBS probably works at a fast food restaurant. His string of (often profanity-strewn) ad hominem attacks over the past couple of months leaves little doubt but that he is an irate polygraph "professional" frustrated at seeing the tricks of his trade publicly exposed.
ISBS's main goal in posting here seems to be merely to drag down the level of discourse. Let's not allow that to happen.
Quote from: George W. Maschke on Jul 13, 2004, 07:07 AMDimas,
I disagree with your assessment that ISBS probably works at a fast food restaurant. His string of (often profanity-strewn) ad hominem attacks over the past couple of months leaves little doubt but that he is an irate polygraph "professional" frustrated at seeing the tricks of his trade publicly exposed.
ISBS's main goal in posting here seems to be merely to drag down the level of discourse. Let's not allow that to happen.
George, you know I provide a valuable service to you and your fellow losers. I give you a chance to vent your anger at me and blame me for all your troubles. I mean after all, you crybabies are never responsibile for your own failures are you?
ISBS,
I apologize for referring to you as a fast food restaurant worker. My experience while attempting to order at the local BK today has taught me that to work at that place you must first not have any grasp for the English language or even be familiar with numbers. A "number 1"is a "number 1 " no matter how it is ordered, I even held up one finger to assist him and he still messed up. But I digress, as my BK experience is a whole other animal.
While you have on some occasions made a good point or actually made me laugh on a retort or two, I find it unfortunate that you have not taken the time to register as a regular user. Sometimes what is posted as ISBS is quite pointless, humorless and really below anyone with any self-respect. It leaves me to wonder if you are infact the same person or the haploid that attempted to take my order today.
I for one do not regret my polygraph experiences at all. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be who I am or where I am at today. Do I take responsibility for it? Yes, I volunteered to take the tests by applying for a department that used them. Do I think the machine is valid? Sure it is, as an interrogational tool, but I think it's use as the sole basis to disqualify applicants is a bit extreme.
Not that it would matter to you, but I feel it is worth mentioning. I was punished for being truthful to my examiner by telling him I knew how it worked. With the years I have come to understand the poor guy. I know this really great card trick and when I have performed it usually leave people in awe, however one day the guy I did it to knew how it worked. Amazingly, I was resentful towards him and VERY bothered by him knowing my trick.
Either way, I hope you take the time to register and make an attempt to cut us down and have us vent our anger at you via factual and intelligent argument and get away from the ad hominem attacks.
Sincerely,
from one dumbass to another. (hopefully that will be the last time we refer to ourselves via an expletive)
Quote from: dimas on Jul 14, 2004, 02:25 AMISBS,
Either way, I hope you take the time to register and make an attempt to cut us down and have us vent our anger at you via factual and intelligent argument and get away from the ad hominem attacks.
Sincerely,
from one dumbass to another. (hopefully that will be the last time we refer to ourselves via an expletive)
Speaking of registering, aren't you also registered as Beechtrees, Dave? And for the record, I never refer to myself as dumbass, although you seem to know it fits you.
Sorry, ISBS, nope, I'm not beechtrees or dave. Then again a DUMBASS like you most likely doesn't have the deductive capacity to know or distinguish between one poster and another.
I tried to be civil, but it looks like you are a very unhappy person and your posts reflect it. If you are that unhappy with your life I have two words for you.
END YOURSELF
For the record, a dumbass like you would obviously not be aware that he himself is a dumbass. This is my last post to you about this or probably anything else, as you have once again proven that you cannot begin to even mount an argument based on any facts or relevant info.
You are a very unhappy person, it is you that you have to blame for your lack of success, not others. You are not really "pissing us off", I think people on this board pity you more than anything. On the bright side I am comforted by the fact that I have indeed pointed out the fact that you are and behave like a Dumbass (I think thanks to you this has now become my favorite expletive, as you have become my reference point for measuring whether or not a person is one), ignorance of your stupidy is no excuse for it, at least now you are aware of it.
P.S. for future reference when someone orders a number 1, all you have to do is look for the neat little key labeled '1'.
Quote from: dimas on Jul 14, 2004, 02:25 AMISBS,
I was punished for being truthful to my examiner by telling him I knew how it worked.
Funny, that is exactly what happened to a fellow by the name of Dave who posts under the name of Beechtrees. I guess both of you guys let your alligator mouth overload your piss ant ass and that is the real reason why you were DQ'd at the polygraph phase.
Quote from: I-SMELL-BS on Jul 14, 2004, 11:50 PM
Funny, that is exactly what happened to a fellow by the name of Dave who posts under the name of Beechtrees. I guess both of you guys let your alligator mouth overload your piss ant ass and that is the real reason why you were DQ'd at the polygraph phase.
Would you mind pointing out the posts in which I stated I was 'truthful with my examiner by telling him I knew how it [the polygraph] worked'?
Quote from: beech trees on Jul 15, 2004, 03:43 PM
Would you mind pointing out the posts in which I stated I was 'truthful with my examiner by telling him I knew how it [the polygraph] worked'?
Hey Dave, long time no see. Are you saying you didn't do that? And aren't you and dimwit dimas one and the same?
Quote from: I-SMELL-BS on Jul 15, 2004, 03:54 PMHey Dave, long time no see. Are you saying you didn't do that? And aren't you and dimwit dimas one and the same?
I'm asking you to simply back up your gratuitous assertion that what happened to poster 'Dimas':
I was punished for being truthful to my examiner by telling him I knew how it worked. '...is exactly what happened to a fellow by the name of Dave who posts under the name of Beechtrees.'
Since I am a registered contributor of the message board, the Search function can be used to pull up everything I've posted here.
With regard to your last question, no, I have never contributed to this message board except as user 'beech_trees' or later on as 'beech trees' (no underscore).
Under what other names have you contributed to this board?
Dave
Quote from: beech trees on Jul 16, 2004, 04:59 PM
I'm asking you to simply back up your gratuitous assertion that what happened to poster 'Dimas':
I was punished for being truthful to my examiner by telling him I knew how it worked.
'...is exactly what happened to a fellow by the name of Dave who posts under the name of Beechtrees.'
Since I am a registered contributor of the message board, the Search function can be used to pull up everything I've posted here.
With regard to your last question, no, I have never contributed to this message board except as user 'beech_trees' or later on as 'beech trees' (no underscore).
Under what other names have you contributed to this board?
Dave
Dave, I don't think ISBS was quoting you, I think think he just made what you describe as a "gratuitous assertion", and I also observe that you have not denied that it is true.
Quote from: NeutralObserver on Jul 16, 2004, 05:37 PM
Dave, I don't think ISBS was quoting you, I think think he just made what you describe as a "gratuitous assertion", and I also observe that you have not denied that it is true.
It is clear from my post that I do not believe 'isbs' was quoting me.
It should also be clear from my invitation to back up the gratuitous assertion that it never happened.
Quote from: beech trees on Jul 16, 2004, 06:15 PM
It is clear from my post that I do not believe 'isbs' was quoting me.
It should also be clear from my invitation to back up the gratuitous assertion that it never happened.
If you weren't DQ'd for that, then what were you DQ'd for?
Quote from: beech trees on Jul 16, 2004, 06:15 PM
It is clear from my post that I do not believe 'isbs' was quoting me.
It should also be clear from my invitation to back up the gratuitous assertion that it never happened.
That is the bullshit I smell. Dave, why don't you just admit it? After all, it's no big deal.
Quote from: I-SMELL-BS on Jul 17, 2004, 06:58 PM
That is the bullshit I smell. Dave, why don't you just admit it? After all, it's no big deal.
Alas, mr. isbs, I am gainfully employed in the career of my choice after successfully employing countermeasures-- as is clearly described in the archive of my postings dating back to 2001.
Cheers,
Quote from: beech trees on Jul 17, 2004, 08:53 PM
Alas, mr. isbs, I am gainfully employed in the career of my choice after successfully employing countermeasures-- as is clearly described in the archive of my postings dating back to 2001.
Cheers,
I remember it a little differently, and I think ISBS's version is closer to the truth.
Well Beech it appears that you have now found out what names ISBS is also posting as. Very sad :'(
I apologize to everyone. I realized the other day that I was venting all my anger at people that post here. My life isn't going all to greatly. I am quite lonely, lost my recent job at the Burger Hut and still live with my parents. I wish I could say my wife even left me, but I have never been popular enough with the ladies to be able to get one to go out with me, so marriage has always been a long shot. I guess you could say I am going through a mid-life crisis. Well I gotta go, my dad needs to use his computer.
The post by "ISBS is Full of it" posted 17 July 2004 at 10:17 P.M. and the post by "I-SMELL-BS" posted five minutes later, at 10:22 P.M., originated from the same IP address.
It is also doubtful whether the post dated 17 July at 8:03 P.M. purporting to be from Donald J. Krapohl, a researcher at the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute, is authentic.
Any further posts to this message thread should substantially address the issues raised by the poster who originated it.
Actually, both posts were posted by me and done to prove a point. ISBS could be anyone or a multitude of nobodys. Amazingly, however, he usually gets someone who is posted as "anonymous" or whatever other name to back up his often thoughtless and pointless arguments.
ISBS is a "Loser" and a Nobody. I think it is about time we all took the time to ignore him and perhaps he or they or whomever all the ISBS's are will go away.
I think we have all wasted enough time on this issue. Hopefully in the future, when those of us who frequent this board take the time to answer a question for someone the administrator could do us all a favor and remove ISBS's useless and insulting posts.
ok if you're wondering if you passed or not... you probably failed... sorry bud
ISBS is your typical polygrapher. He would rather waste his time hurling insults at others rather than defend his "test". Oh, thats right, it is impossible to defend a psuedoscience. My bad! Carry on ISBS, your posts are quite amusing!
SHould we really be allowing, people who live with there parents going through a mid life crisis to be able to be the judge all for people who have there crap together and are ready to go into a great job field.
Quote from: Anonymous on Feb 26, 2004, 03:19 PM
I stuck to my guns and denied such involvement.
I only admitted to what was true (marijuana experimentation ).
I have been bothered that a family member had been arrested and served time for possessing and selling illegal drugs.
He/she responded .......
Another law enforcement agency suggested that I had mishandled drug evidence.. ( tsk tsk )
I informed him/her ......
He/she did not want to hear this.
He/she must have "forgotten" .....
It was my belief he/she was not ......
He/she never told me I "failed," .......
He/she told me that
he/she could not conduct additional tests unless
I provided him/her with additional information.
He/she told me HQ would make the final decision.
I hate to speculate, but I felt I had failed when I left. (aint that the truth )
I only learned of this site after the poly and I did not attempt any CM. ( we know...)
I relied on the truth , but also involved in the selling of drugs. (editing is fun )
Any input/observations would be appreciated.
Regards,
Anonymous
Firstly, I didnt know that the govt was hiring 'obvious' transsexual examiners. This gives me hope.
Then, perhaps you should have stuck to your guns. (Call 0800 TALIBAN )
Quote from: 1904 on Jun 15, 2007, 11:40 AMFirstly, I didnt know that the govt was hiring 'obvious' transsexual examiners. This gives me hope....
Of course, the poster simply chose (prudently) not to divulge the gender of his/her polygrapher to protect his/her anonymity. But imagine, if you will, the "horror"...
(http://antipolygraph.org/graphics/dr-frank-n-furter.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Horror_Picture_Show)
Come up to the polygraph suite...
Good One George.
But... add a tache, a pair of squarish specs, a crewcut -- and hey presto.
Roy Ortiz.
The photo got my mind to wandering (back 6-7 yrs). I was conducting p/g's at a company
in a 'suitable' suite provided by the client. It was the sick room.
Anyway, 3-4 subjects later a lady subject walks in. I asked her to please have a seat,
indicating to her to proceed into the adjacent room. In the meantime I was having a short break
and checking my voice-messages. when I walked into the testing room, she was lying prostrate
on the sick bed - naked.
I nearly fainted.
Poor Thing. she hadn't a clue as to what a 'lie detector test' might entail and said that she wasn't
"concentrating" - on what....??
The mind boggles.