Just had my poly yesterday for the FBI SA position. After the exam was complete, the examiner claimed I was not truthful on one certain question? HE WOULD NEVER TELL ME WHAT IT WAS!! He said I should tell him, and he knew? I told him I did not lie? He said he wasn't sure if I passed/failed, but there was a problem, and it's up to headquarters to decide? He claimed to know all about me from this test (Very Funny). My guess is, I passed and he was doing a last gasp attempt to get something out of me? Is it true if there was a problem, the examiner would tell me what the problem question was??? Any advice would be helpful!! Thanks!
Mike
Contrary to popular belief, polygraph examiner's who run pre-employment examinations would love for you to pass your polygraph. If you think examiner's are out to turn up every misdeed you did then someone's misled you. Can't imagine what website that would have done that. My question is, since you've obviously been on this website, did you use CM's? Maybe you didn't have a problem with any one particular question. Maybe your charts were riddled with CM's which were beyond obvious. Maybe he's decided to let QC deal with it. Examiner's won't necessarily tell you what question you had a problem with, however, if they evaluated you DI(deception indicated) then I would imagine there would have been a post-test interview. Again, the exception might be if they saw alot of CM activity. ;)
Thank you "Saidme" for your reply!! No..I did not use "CM." I did tell the truth!!! Based on this..I'm wondering is my chances are 50/50? Examiner said, it could go either way? You mean to tell me he couldn't give me an idea at the present time?
If the examiner had detected a problem with a particular question, he would have put you through an interrogation. Since he didn't do it, you can safely assume that there was nothing for him to elicit and you are NDI.
Bottom line, with no major derogatory information coming out during your polygraph exam, headquarters will proceed with the next phase until your file is complete and an adjudicator can look at it and make a determination based on the "Whole Person" concept.
Thanks "Random!!" Bottom line..he was bullshitting me correct??
Mike,
I agree with Saidme and Random that if your polygraph results had been "deception indicated," you would have been treated to a post-test interrogation. But I must respectfully disagree with Random's suggestion that it is safe to assume that your results were NDI (no deception indicated). FBI HQ could still score your charts as "inconclusive." Alternatively, they could also conclude that you employed countermeasures, even though you didn't.
If your name really is Mike Epps and your polygraph examination really was on 23 July, then you can be reasonably confident that FBI HQ will identify you through your post here. (Polygraphers from various agencies lurk on this message board.) While it is to be hoped that your posting here might be taken as an indication of your candor, it is also possible that FBI HQ might draw an adverse inference based on your having posted here.
Thanks George! I thank you for your time! I guess I have to cross my fingers till I get my results? ALso...What is a Post Test Interriagtion? After the test, the examiner did not excuse me of lying, nor being totally truthful? He asked me if I wanted to get something of my chest, becuase he did see a problem with my chart? I had nothing to say. That's how we left.
Question: If HQ sees my charts with a problem, will they make a judgement on my overall application, or will they base their determination only on the poly?
George
You wrote: "(Polygraphers from various agencies lurk on this message board.)"
I resemble that remark. :D
Saidme,
Actually, you don't "resemble that remark." The term "lurk," as commonly used regarding Internet fora (such as this one), refers to reading without posting. In that context, it has no derogatory connotation (and I certainly intended none).
Relax George. Just building rapport. Who knows, I may need some information out of you one day. ;)
Quote from: random on Jul 25, 2003, 01:55 AMIf the examiner had detected a problem with a particular question, he would have put you through an interrogation. Since he didn't do it, you can safely assume that there was nothing for him to elicit and you are NDI.
Bottom line, with no major derogatory information coming out during your polygraph exam, headquarters will proceed with the next phase until your file is complete and an adjudicator can look at it and make a determination based on the "Whole Person" concept.
I disagree. I was "Not Within Acceptable Parameters" after a similar test to Mike's. I didn't lie. I didn't admit anything derogatory. I was told I was having trouble with some questions, but the examiner refused to be specific about which ones.
Mike,
If a subject "fails" a polygraph examination, the polygraph examiner will typically conduct a post-test interrogation in an attempt to get an admission/confession from the examinee that he/she had been deceptive. For more on this, see Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (http://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml) and the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute Interview and Interrogation Handbook (http://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-interrogation.pdf) (5.2 mb PDF).
If FBI HQ determines that you failed your polygraph examination, or opines that you employed countermeasures, you will be permanently barred from FBI employment without further ado. If the result is deemed "inconclusive," you might be scheduled for a re-test.
George:
How many people @ HQ make the determination? Also, do they take into account the whole application if your poly is "borderline?"
Mike
No, you're application has nothing to do with your polygraph. You either passed, failed, inconclusive or they suspect CM's. :D
Mike,
I don't know how many people at FBI HQ make the determination on applicant polygraph examinations. Those making the determination are themselves polygraph examiners.
A "borderline" polygraph examination would be an "inconclusive" one, and the applicant might be scheduled for a re-test. To the best of my knowledge, the rest of a candidate's application is not a factor in the scoring of his/her polygraph charts.
Human Subject:
Did your examiner state he wasn't sure if you passed/failed? Mine would not tell me? Why wouldn't he give me his opinion????????
Saidme & George:
Isn't it true if examiners do not deem you as "DI," they still will try to make it seem you were not telling the truth before you leave the room? That's what I felt happened to me? Thank you again for your time!
Mike Epps,
You are quite correct. With a control question test (CQT) polygraph exam, you essentially either fail the control or the relevant questions (not that there is any connection to lie or truth telling, but there most definitely are real consequences following an arbitrary determination of deception or no deception rendered by the soothsayer/polygraph operator). If you are found to be NDI, a polygraph examiner will let you know that you have "failed"/have significant responses to/were deceptive to, etc to the control questions. The aspect of fraud which comes to play at this point (as was the case in reviewing the questions initially in the pre-test phase) is to make you believe/allow you to continue believe that these are relevant questions (perhaps of less importance than the ones you did "pass"). The good news is that you will no longer fall for this gambit, nor be left thinking that you are guilty of committing some heinous sin relevant to the job you are applying for, and should you be unfortunate to undergo such an exercise in foolishness again, you will know of the deception (not yours but theirs) in advance...forewarned is forearmed, yes?
THANK YOU!!! THAT"S WHAT I THOUGHT!!! I told the truth on ALL relevent questions. When asked if I ever told a white lie in my life...I told about stealing gum as a kid, but eveyone can go for days on this question, so I just left it with the gum. If you are deemed truthful on FBI "relevent" questions..Is that passing?? Why can't the examiner just let me go?? Why does he have to play games?? Very disturbing to me!!
Mike Epps,
You write:
Quote...THANK YOU!!! THAT"S WHAT I THOUGHT!!! I told the truth on ALL relevent questions. When asked if I ever told a white lie in my life...I told about stealing gum as a kid, but eveyone can go for days on this question, so I just left it with the gum. If you are deemed truthful on FBI "relevent" questions..Is that passing?? Why can't the examiner just let me go?? Why does he have to play games?? Very disturbing to me!!...
This is a very good question you ask, and one I don't remember having seen asked or answered on this board before. You ask why the silly parting games with a deemed to be non-deceptive examinee. Essentially there are two reasons. The primary is a face saving one. If the agency quality control group changes/overturns the examiner NDI call to an inconclusive or DI result.... and the examiner has already told you that you have some minor problems with relevant (really control issues) and he/she has to come back and tell you that the HQ group has overturned his initial opinion, then he/she doesn't appear to be quite the inept stargazer that he/she in fact is. The second reason would be that you or somebody you know will likely take a polygraph exam in the future. They want you to think the exam you took actually worked for future exam purposes. If in fact you actually "beat it", i.e., successfully lied on actual relevant questions, but they lied to you by telling you that you had problems on these lesser relevant (really control) questions, then perhaps you will think in the back of your mind that although you seemed to have gotten through without negative consequences that there really is something to this nonsense when you have to face it again. But now you know...
WOW..Thanks for replying! That is so shady!! I will be sure to let everyone know on here on my results. I expect them this upcoming week! I'm wondering if I should start my letter to Mr. Muller, or get ready to sell my house for a new FBI career (Very Stressfull!!) I know a couple of my local Congressman real well. If I fail my poly, could they help me??
Thanks for the great info!! I will know my results this week. Right now I'm between writing my letter to "Mr. Muller," and finding a person to sell my house for a new FBI career. VERY STRESSFULL!!
Mike
Sounds like you probably passed. Actually, the examiner was probably doing you a favor. Let's say you go on to have a successful FBI career and somewhere along the line someone makes a false allegation against you for police brutality or someother police related crime. Generally, the examiner was probably setting you up for that exam that may never occur. At the time it probably seemed uncomfortable but the examiner isn't doing it just to watch you squirm. There's a reason behind everything. ;)
Thanks "Saidme" for your good info!!
Mike Epps,
Re-read my last post containing an analysis of your NDI post-test with your examiner as well as Saidme's last post to you. If you believe that nonsense was done for your benefit and not the polygrapher's, perhaps I could sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. If your interests happen to coincide with the polygrapher's then so be it, but do not think for a second that they (your interests) will trump his own interests and motivations nor that they are necessarily the same. Best of luck to you, remember this little exercise for when you obtain your desired job and are later confronted with polygraphy in any of the many ways you might be and keep us posted...
Thanks "Anonymous" All very true!!! I will post my results when I get them this week.
Mike Epps,
I took my poly a week and a half ago and still no word. Do they contact you either way? The wait is killing me!! I would like to believe that they let you know fairly quickly if you failed but I have seen other posts on this board where the individual received the "bad letter" two weeks after the test. I wish they would let me know either way......for the love of God!
John:
I know the wait is brutal!! I haven't slept more then four hours a night since the test. People don't realize this "BS" test determines our life!!! Anyway..normally the FBI will not contact you if you passed. If it's over two weeks then you should assume you past. You can call your application coord, or the HR in HQ to find out. My case is a little different, and I don't know why? My field office Coord. told me I should expect a call from him in a week either good/bad?
I MEAN PASSED!! Yikes!