On 17 January 1991, U.S. Navy pilot Lieutenant Commander (now Captain) Michael Scott Speicher's F/A-18 Hornet was shot down by an air-to-air missile fired by an Iraqi plane. Although the wreckage of his aircraft was located in Iraq's western desert some years later and visited by a U.S. excavation team in 1995, Cdr. Speicher's body was never found, leading to speculation that Iraq may have taken him prisoner and might have continued to hold him years after the end of the Gulf War.
Belief that Speicher might still be alive and in Iraqi custody was bolstered by information provided by an Iraqi defector who claimed to have driven Speicher from the crash site to an Iraqi military facility in 1991. According to a
Chicago Tribune report by Christine Spolar titled "U.S. Hunts for POW of '91 War" (http://www.newsday.com/chi-0304240299apr24,0,3913010.story) and reprinted in
Newsday on 24 April 2003:
QuoteThe defector, who passed three polygraph tests and picked Speicher out of lineup of photos, said the pilot was taken alive. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence requested a CIA-Defense Department review of the case. That review, released in late 2000, confirmed suspicions that Speicher likely lived through his crash and was captured.
On 11 October 2002, the U.S. Navy changed Speicher's status from "killed in action" to "prisoner of war." Associated Press writer Matt Kelly reported (http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=60808):
QuoteSen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said an Iraqi defector told officials that 11 years ago he drove a wounded American pilot to a hospital.
"He was a credible witness," said Nelson, who said the man had given information on other topics that was correct. He had also passed a polygraph exam, Nelson said.
But
Washington Times staff writer Rowan Scarborough reports in an article in today's (16 July 2003) edition titled "Navy pilot's fate now looks grim" (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030715-114916-4526r.htm) that a secret Pentagon report provided to the
Times casts serious doubt on whether CPT Speichert was ever taken prisoner:
QuoteA secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt for Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was producing positive results.
The classified document also cast serious doubt on the credibility of the Iraqi defector who first raised hopes in the United States that the Navy pilot was alive and a captive in Iraq after his plane was shot down in 1991.
The defector claims to have seen Capt. Speicher alive in 1998. But Iraqis interviewed by U.S. investigators say he is lying, according to the report prepared for Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman.
The internal report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times, quotes one Iraqi as saying the defector is a "born liar." U.S. officials are said to now have serious questions about the unnamed defector's veracity.
...
The report reveals that the main source for a report last year that Capt. Speicher survived the crash is a defector from Saddam Hussein's Special Security Organization (SSO), which maintained the dictator's rule in Baghdad.
The defector, whom U.S. officials call "defector No. 2314," provided names of witnesses who he says support his story. But when contacted by the U.S. search team, the Iraqis deny the defector's account.
"None of the information provided by 2314 has proven accurate," the Pentagon report states.
...
...[T]he defector's story, in part, prompted the Navy to change his status to missing-captured and to promote him from commander to the rank of captain.
This information created a storm of prewar news coverage that Saddam might still be holding an American he was supposed to release, with all other prisoners of war, after the March 1991 cease-fire.
But the secret Pentagon report lists a number of leads that turned out to be bogus:
- Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he said had knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any knowledge; two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
- The defector said his supervisor at SSO also knew of Capt. Speicher's imprisonment. But the supervisor denied this, passed a polygraph and called No. 2314 "a born liar."
- The source said a psychiatrist at the Rashid prison worked there during Capt. Speicher's purported captivity. But the psychiatrist "denied any knowledge."
- U.S. Central Command has recovered thousands of POW-related files in Iraq. "To date, analysts have found only one reference to Speicher. The reference indicates he ejected and lists his status as 'unknown.' "
...
Concludes the report, "U.S. CentCom has searched every known location associated with Speicher. Other than at Hakimiyah prison, where U.S. forces found the initials 'MSS' carved in a cell wall, no significant evidence of his status has been discovered."
The Iraq Survey Group cell was also to interview an ethnic Iraqi U.S. citizen who had been held at another Baghdad prison, Abu Ghurab. "This individual reported to U.S. Marines that he heard Iraqi guards discussing the 'U.S. pilot.' "
The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the defector, but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the CIA "to conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency does not comment on polygraph issues.
The Speicher investigation seems to be yet another example of the failure of the polygraph to differentiate truth from deception. Pseudoscientific polygraph chart readings should not be relied upon in such important matters as determining the status of missing U.S. military personnel.
George
Shame on you! You have sunk to a new level by using the fate of a US service member to highlight your employment woes. Since you did drag it in let's take a closer look at the article.
"Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he said had knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any knowledge; two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the defector, but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the CIA "to conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
It appears as though through the use of polygraph, the investigators have discredited the source (defector). Am I reading this wrong?
Also, regardless of the technology involved, wouldn't we as a nation use anything within our powers to find a US service member? Regardless of the scientific validity?
Once again, shame on you. ???
Saidme,
I am not using CPT Speicher's fate to "highlight" any "employment woes" but rather to call attention to, and invite discussion of, our government's misplaced reliance on an invalid test in its search for him.
As for whether we should or should not use anything within our power to locate a missing service member, regardless of validity, certainly not. For example, we shouldn't be relying on psychics, astrologers, or remote viewers for such purposes. While I have no in-principle objection to the use of the polygraph as an interrogational prop in such circumstances, no reliance should be placed on a polygrapher's interpretation of the polygraph charts.
It's clear from the leaked Pentagon report that DoD is using the polygraph as more than just an interrogational prop: they are using polygraph chart readings to bolster their conclusion that Defector #2314 is a fabricator. That DoD has asked the CIA "to conduct an independent polygraph of 2314" suggests that his DoD polygraph results did not fit the Pentagon's current investigative theory. Such governmental reliance on the polygraph is entirely inappropriate and could well lead to investigative misdirection.
George
You're doing a lot of speculating. I think you call it wild conjecture.
It's not speculation to say that DoD has been relying on the polygraph as more than just an interrogational prop. The Pentagon report leaked to the Washington Times makes that quite clear.
That would be your interpretation! Of course you're somewhat biased. ;)
Saidme,
I don't claim to have a monopoly on truth. One of the reasons that this message board is uncensored is so that any errors or misperceptions that might arise from bias may be corrected.
I do think that Senator Bill Nelson's reference to the first informant's having passed a polygraph test, and the Pentagon report's mention of polygraph outcomes and the fact that Defector #2314 was referred to the CIA for more polygraph testing are pretty strong indications that DoD has been relying on polygraph chart readings, and not just admissions gained by the polygraph.
If you have a different view, why not express it? Your bland assertion that I am "somewhat biased" adds little to the discussion.
George: Your statement that is board is "uncensored" is a blatant lie and you know it. I know for a fact that you have blocked people that you don't want posting here.
Come to think of it, haven't heard from Batman lately. :o
I truely hope you don't sensor this site in any way shape or form George.
Open discussion is the backbone of our plight. Regardless of how ignorant your opposition may seem.
Quote from: BSDETECTOR on Jul 16, 2003, 08:14 PMGeorge: Your statement that is board is "uncensored" is a blatant lie and you know it. I know for a fact that you have blocked people that you don't want posting here.
BSDETECTOR
Please identify those who
CANNOT post to this message board. I am very doubtful that Mr. Maschke would block
ANYONE from posting to this message board.
If you took the time to read the message header you will notice that it states:
Quote Anyone may post a message here. All points of view are welcome
[/b][/i]
Step up to the plate
Fred F. ;)
Let George answer this charge himself. I know he has blocked people and he knows it too. And his statement that the board is uncensored is a lie.
No one has been blocked from posting on this message board. You will note that we have even provided links to a variety of anonymous proxies to facilitate anonymous posting.
Posts are not censored, either. If you look around, you'll see a broad spectrum of views expressed, including ones critical of AntiPolygraph.org or of me personally. See, for example, Lies in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=474.msg2251#msg2251) or Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection (https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=843.msg5530#msg5530) (in the latter thread I was accused of treason).
The only posts deleted have been blatant and off-topic commercial advertising, duplicate posts, or posts by unregistered users whose authors have contacted AntiPolygraph.org requesting removal.
A follow-up report by Rowan Scarborough in today's (17 July 2003)
Washington Times ("Senator asks Navy for report on pilot" (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030716-111913-5092r.htm)) suggests that Defector #2314 did indeed pass a DoD polygraph examination:
QuoteThe CIA plans to administer a new polygraph on the defector, who is said to have passed one conducted by the Pentagon.
The CIA could learn a lesson or two from the FBI- when the polygraph results don't match your theory (of the moment)-- blame Canada!
Maybe the Pentagon polygrapher was a visiting friend from the frozen north. Yes of course! Thats it! This time will do it ourselves! Guess what defector # 2314 ,we've got a problem. Your holding something back! Look at this chart. No, not the one you passed, this one!
Quote from: Saidme on Jul 16, 2003, 11:52 AMAlso, regardless of the technology involved, wouldn't we as a nation use anything within our powers to find a US service member? Regardless of the scientific validity?
This "regardless of scientific validity" thing has become something of a mantra around here lately.
I think the mantra is "scientific validity, and empiracal evidence, and peer review." Do you guys use those terms in your everyday lives? Food you eat, products you use, entertainment you watch. If you do I will voluntarily refrain from posting here any longer.
Anyone who's gone to graduate school and studies something besides literary criticism probably uses those terms.
And it's "EMPIRICAL".
I knew someone on this website would get around to correcting my spelling or grammar. I think we could even call that literary criticism. Thanks HS. ;)
Quote from: BSDETECTOR on Jul 17, 2003, 12:25 AMLet George answer this charge himself. I know he has blocked people and he knows it too. And his statement that the board is uncensored is a lie.
BSDETECTOR,
George denied your charge. It would be appropriate for you to substantiate or withdraw it (and apologize). Who did George block from this web site? Who's posts have been censored?
Ahh...the problem here is this: It is simply faulty logic to expect someone who is asinine and purile to also be a gentleman and take responsibility for his own actions.
Regards,
Quote from: Anonymous on Jul 19, 2003, 05:28 PM
BSDETECTOR,
George denied your charge. It would be appropriate for you to substantiate or withdraw it (and apologize). Who did George block from this web site? Who's posts have been censored?
Seeker,
Good to "see" you back. :)
The polygraph, which was used by the Pentagon to bolster a defector's claim that U.S. Navy pilot Michael Scott Speicher was taken prisoner by Iraq during the 1991 Gulf War, is now being used to bolster the opposite conclusion!
Reuters correspondent Will Dunham, in an article published in today's
New York Post under the title, "Missing '91 Pilot is 'Dead,'" (http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/28187.htm) cites a U.S. official who asked not to be named:
QuoteThe official noted that information from an Iraqi defector that Speicher survived and was held captive had been discredited. The official said Iraqi doctors who the defector said would know about Speicher have denied any knowledge of him and passed polygraph examinations.
Dunham fails to note that the Iraqi defector also passed a polygraph examination...
There is now conclusive evidence that the Iraqi defector ("Defector No. 2314") who claimed to have seen U.S. naval aviator Michael Scott Speicher alive and in Iraqi custody -- and who
passed three polygraphs --
was lying. Speicher's remains have been found and positively identified at the site where his F/A-18 Hornet crashed on 17 January 1991. Fox News reports:
Quotehttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,536170,00.html
Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found
Sunday , August 02, 2009
Remains of the first American lost in the 1991 Persian Gulf War have been found in the Anbar province of Iraq after a nearly 20-year search, the U.S. Navy said Sunday.
The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology has positively identified the remains of Captain Michael "Scott" Speicher, whose disappearance has bedeviled investigators since his jet was shot down over the Iraq desert on the first night of the 1991 war.
The Navy said the discovery illustrates the military's commitment to bring its troops home.
"This is a testament to how the Navy never stops looking for one of its own. No matter how long it takes," Commander Cappy Surette, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy, told FOX News.
Admiral Gary Roughead, Chief of Naval Operations, added, "we owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to Captain Speicher and his family for the sacrifice they have made for our nation and the example of strength they have set for all of us."
The Pentagon initially declared Speicher killed, but uncertainty — and the lack of remains — led officials over the years to change his official status a number of times to "missing in action" and later "missing-captured."
Family spokeswoman Cindy Laquidara said relatives learned on Saturday that Speicher's remains had been found.
"The family's proud of the way the Defense Department continued on with our request" to not abandon the search for the downed pilot, she said. "We will be bringing him home."
Laquidara said the family would have another statement after being briefed by the defense officials, but she didn't know when that would be.
"My heart goes out to the family, again," said Sen. Bill Nelson, the Florida senator who was instrumental several years ago in getting the Navy to renew a search for the missing pilot. "We all clung to the slim hope that Scott was still alive and would one day come home to his family."
After years, the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq finally gave investigators the chance to search inside Iraq. And it led to a number of leads, including what some believed were the initials "MSS" scratched into the wall of an Iraqi prison.
The search also led investigators to excavate a potential grave site in Baghdad in 2005, track down Iraqis said to have information about Speicher and make numerous other inquiries in what officials say has been an exhaustive search.
Officials said Sunday that they got new information from an Iraqi citizen in early July, leading Marines stationed in Anbar province to a location in the desert which was believed to be the crash site of Speicher's jet.
The Iraqi said he knew of two other Iraqis who recalled an American jet crashing and the remains of the pilot being buried in the desert.
"One of these Iraqi citizens stated that they were present when Captain Speicher was found dead at the crash site by Bedouins and his remains buried," the Pentagon said in a statement.
He was positively identified through a jawbone found at the site and dental records, said Read Adm. Frank Thorp.
Speicher was shot down over west-central Iraq on Jan. 17, 1991.
Hours after his plane went down, the Pentagon publicly declared him killed — then Defense Secretary Dick Cheney went on television and announced the U.S. had suffered its first casualty of the war. But 10 years later, the Navy changed his status to missing in action, citing an absence of evidence that Speicher had died. In October 2002, the Navy switched his status to "missing/captured," although it has never said what evidence it had that he ever was in captivity.
Another review was done in 2005 with information gleaned after Baghdad fell. The review board recommended then that the Pentagon work with the State Department, the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad and the Iraqi government to "increase the level of attention and effort inside Iraq" to resolve the question of Speicher's fate.
Last year, then Navy Secretary Donald Winter ordered yet another review of the case after receiving a report from the Defense Intelligence Agency, which tracks prisoners of war and service members missing in action. Many in the military believed for years that Speicher had not survived the crash or for long after; intelligence had never found evidence he was alive, and some officials felt last year that all leads had been exhausted and Speicher would finally be declared killed.
But after the latest review, Winter said Speicher would remain classified as missing, despite his strong reservations about the pilot's status and cited "compelling" evidence that he was dead. Announcing his decision, Winter criticized the board's recommendation to leave Speicher's status unchanged, saying the review board based its conclusions on the belief that Speicher was alive after ejecting from his plane. The board "chose to ignore" the lack of any parachute sighting, emergency beacon signal or radio communication, Winter said.
Speicher's family — including two college-age children who were toddlers when Speicher disappeared — believed more evidence would surface as Iraq became more stable.
FOX News' Jennifer Griffin and the Associated Press contributed to this report.
George, the links in this thread are no longer valid to the articles in this 2004 and earlier. Do you have an active link to a source that states said defector "passed" three polygraph "tests?"
Thank you.
The article I cited regarding the defector having passed three polygraphs ("U.S. hunts POW of '91 war," Chicago Tribune, p. 1, 24 April 2003) is no longer available for free on-line. However, it may be purchased from the archives of the Chicago Tribune here (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/327598211.html?dids=327598211:327598211&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Apr+24%2C+2003&author=Christine+Spolar%2C+Tribune+foreign+correspondent&pub=Chicago+Tribune&edition=&startpage=1&desc=U.S.+hunts+POW+of+%2791+war).