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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by s-X-e
- Jul 25, 2003, 01:25 AMQuote from: Saidme on Jul 24, 2003, 11:10 PMCapt T
Why jeopardize a job that's "very important" to you by taking advice from a bunch of clowns who failed their own polygraphs?
The fact that anybody on here may have failed a polygraph test does not impeach their credibility or suggest that any of them are less qualified to give advice. It just means that they all fell victim to a procedure that lacks any scientific validity, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
QuoteSome say they failed even though they were telling the truth. Do we know they were telling the truth? I don't think so.
No, but we also have no reason to believe anybody on here is lying when they claim that they told the truth on their polygraph. We do, however, know that you and other examiners lie to other examinees during their examinations and expect them to be less than truthful when responding to their questions. I guess by your reasoning that would make you the least qualified to give advice on here, wouldn't it?
QuoteI suspect you're applying for a job that's in law enforcement or intelligence work. Do you really want the advice of a group who assists convicted sex offenders (adult and child) trying to get over on their probation and parole officers. Just peruse through some of the posts and see some of the folks out there seeking these folks advice.
If the polygraph community did not rely on such an inaccurate procedure to assess guilt or innocence it would not fall victim to such flaws as the potential for successfully employed countermeasures. You also frequently make the unsupported claim that countermeasures are detected all the time, so any assistance this site may provide to criminals should not be too much of a concern to you, should it?
QuoteAnd by the way, I called you dipshit. No offense intended but you did come to this website afterall.
As did you, Saidme.
Posted by suethem
- Jul 25, 2003, 01:16 AMSaidme,
I believe that I have read here on this site that the failure rate for the FBI pre-employment poly is at about 50%. There is a SO (I think its Yolo Co CA) that has a failure rate of 70%. So to say that the vast majority pass, does not seem very accurate.
So if you don't confess or admit to using countermeasures (which is to confess), you are failed for using countermeasures without confessing to using them?
That means there are no false positives- which is what most polygraphers believe. That would make the polygraph 100%.
I thought you weren't a true believer, but I guess you are.
I believe that I have read here on this site that the failure rate for the FBI pre-employment poly is at about 50%. There is a SO (I think its Yolo Co CA) that has a failure rate of 70%. So to say that the vast majority pass, does not seem very accurate.
So if you don't confess or admit to using countermeasures (which is to confess), you are failed for using countermeasures without confessing to using them?
That means there are no false positives- which is what most polygraphers believe. That would make the polygraph 100%.
I thought you weren't a true believer, but I guess you are.
Posted by Saidme
- Jul 24, 2003, 11:10 PMCapt T
Why jeopardize a job that's "very important" to you by taking advice from a bunch of clowns who failed their own polygraphs? Some say they failed even though they were telling the truth. Do we know they were telling the truth? I don't think so. I suspect you're applying for a job that's in law enforcement or intelligence work. Do you really want the advice of a group who assists convicted sex offenders (adult and child) trying to get over on their probation and parole officers. Just peruse through some of the posts and see some of the folks out there seeking these folks advice. If you use CM's and get raked over the coals, hang it up. If you've got nothing to hide, take the exam. The vast majority of folks who take the exam pass it with no problem. I have some friends who run pre-employment for a federal agency to remain anonymous. They've told me the large majority of people pass their polygraph's with little or no problem. The one's that don't outright failed and confessed to DQ'ing information and the others were caught and/or suspected of employing CM's. Keep it on the up and up and you'll do fine
. And by the way, I called you dipshit. No offense intended but you did come to this website afterall.
Why jeopardize a job that's "very important" to you by taking advice from a bunch of clowns who failed their own polygraphs? Some say they failed even though they were telling the truth. Do we know they were telling the truth? I don't think so. I suspect you're applying for a job that's in law enforcement or intelligence work. Do you really want the advice of a group who assists convicted sex offenders (adult and child) trying to get over on their probation and parole officers. Just peruse through some of the posts and see some of the folks out there seeking these folks advice. If you use CM's and get raked over the coals, hang it up. If you've got nothing to hide, take the exam. The vast majority of folks who take the exam pass it with no problem. I have some friends who run pre-employment for a federal agency to remain anonymous. They've told me the large majority of people pass their polygraph's with little or no problem. The one's that don't outright failed and confessed to DQ'ing information and the others were caught and/or suspected of employing CM's. Keep it on the up and up and you'll do fine
. And by the way, I called you dipshit. No offense intended but you did come to this website afterall.Posted by Captain_Truth
- Jul 24, 2003, 11:53 AMQuote from: Public Servant on Jul 24, 2003, 03:20 AMCT,
Why do you need to practice? Do you plan to avoid detection on a relevant issue? What is your reason for taking this exam?
Why not try taking the exam honestly and avoid the possiblility of being caught empolying countermeasures?
Try to avoid being poisoned both by the content of this site and by the comments of the other examiner posts. I'm sure you wil be met by an examiner with a very professional demeanor who is there to objectively administer your exam. This site just seems to bring out the worst in some of us, sometimes.
I was interested in CM because thjis job is very important and if 10% of the stories I have read are true, I may get raked over the coals for something I am innocent of and stand the chance of not getting this very important job.
I have been 100% honest during the investigation phase, confessing to every embarrassing detail I was asked, but I don't want to take chances.
And to the guy who called me a dipshit for using Captain Truth........get a sense of humor.......it sounds like a prison in these message boards, everyone is 100% innocent, so it was a joke.......
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 24, 2003, 04:22 AMPublic Servant,
You wrote, "Why not try taking the exam honestly and avoid the possiblility of being caught empolying countermeasures?"
Two problems with the foregoing advice:
1) The polygraph "test" is theoretically dependant on the subject being less than honest when answering the "control" questions.
2) Not using countermeasures does not eliminate the possibility of being accused of countermeasures. In studies by Charles R. Honts and collaborators, even experienced polygraphers could not detect countermeasures at better-than-chance levels of accuracy, and polygraphers' opinions that subjects had employed countermeasures had no correlation to actual countermeasure use.
You wrote, "Why not try taking the exam honestly and avoid the possiblility of being caught empolying countermeasures?"
Two problems with the foregoing advice:
1) The polygraph "test" is theoretically dependant on the subject being less than honest when answering the "control" questions.
2) Not using countermeasures does not eliminate the possibility of being accused of countermeasures. In studies by Charles R. Honts and collaborators, even experienced polygraphers could not detect countermeasures at better-than-chance levels of accuracy, and polygraphers' opinions that subjects had employed countermeasures had no correlation to actual countermeasure use.
Posted by Public Servant
- Jul 24, 2003, 03:20 AMCT,
Why do you need to practice? Do you plan to avoid detection on a relevant issue? What is your reason for taking this exam?
Why not try taking the exam honestly and avoid the possiblility of being caught empolying countermeasures?
Try to avoid being poisoned both by the content of this site and by the comments of the other examiner posts. I'm sure you wil be met by an examiner with a very professional demeanor who is there to objectively administer your exam. This site just seems to bring out the worst in some of us, sometimes.
Why do you need to practice? Do you plan to avoid detection on a relevant issue? What is your reason for taking this exam?
Why not try taking the exam honestly and avoid the possiblility of being caught empolying countermeasures?
Try to avoid being poisoned both by the content of this site and by the comments of the other examiner posts. I'm sure you wil be met by an examiner with a very professional demeanor who is there to objectively administer your exam. This site just seems to bring out the worst in some of us, sometimes.
Posted by Saidme
- Jul 24, 2003, 12:45 AMAlthough the posts for this one are extremely entertaining, I'll just respond to dipsh&%@, I mean Capt Truth. Although I do have an excellent technique I've come up with called harpooning (involves alcohol and big women).
Capt Truth
You're title alone makes me ill. You have the nerve to discuss truth while you're practicing CM's! What a butt head. Don't go whining to you're examiner when he puts you're feet to the fire on using them.
Capt Truth
You're title alone makes me ill. You have the nerve to discuss truth while you're practicing CM's! What a butt head. Don't go whining to you're examiner when he puts you're feet to the fire on using them.
Posted by suethem
- Jul 23, 2003, 08:34 PMBatman,
Let's keep it civil-
I love America, my friend. This is the best country ever. Always has been, always will be!
I take no joy in the fact that these guys beat the polygraph.
The point is that it can be beaten by people and therfore the results have little merit.
Foreign agents study our methods and techniques and obviously realize that the polygraph is a sham and are prepared enough to beat it. That we put any faith in it to stop enemy agents is ridiculous- didn't stop the cubans, won't stop anyone else.
Now that the information on how to beat the polygraph is widely known and distributed from many different sources, the value of the polygraph is even less.
I root for the team as much as anyone!
My criticism is only of those who would put faith in foolhearty measures.
Let's keep it civil-
I love America, my friend. This is the best country ever. Always has been, always will be!
I take no joy in the fact that these guys beat the polygraph.
The point is that it can be beaten by people and therfore the results have little merit.
Foreign agents study our methods and techniques and obviously realize that the polygraph is a sham and are prepared enough to beat it. That we put any faith in it to stop enemy agents is ridiculous- didn't stop the cubans, won't stop anyone else.
Now that the information on how to beat the polygraph is widely known and distributed from many different sources, the value of the polygraph is even less.
I root for the team as much as anyone!
My criticism is only of those who would put faith in foolhearty measures.
Posted by Batman
- Jul 23, 2003, 08:06 PMHey Shit for Brains,
I don't know if I've ever said that CM's don't work (but I'm sure George or Beech Trees will tell me if I did).
What I have said is that they can be detected when used, but I think I've even acknowledged that on occasion they are not detected.
You need to go to more baseball games so you can learn to root, root, root for the home team, asshole. If some of Sadaam's boys did in fact beat the polygraph, why do you have to take such pleasure in it?
BATMAN
I don't know if I've ever said that CM's don't work (but I'm sure George or Beech Trees will tell me if I did).
What I have said is that they can be detected when used, but I think I've even acknowledged that on occasion they are not detected.
You need to go to more baseball games so you can learn to root, root, root for the home team, asshole. If some of Sadaam's boys did in fact beat the polygraph, why do you have to take such pleasure in it?
BATMAN
Posted by suethem
- Jul 23, 2003, 07:55 PMBatman,
It would seem that you have been yanking your own chain when you spout off about how countermeasurses don't work.
Looks like some of Sadam's boys have proved that they work quite well.
Since these polygraphers are dealing with the most sensative national security issuses, one can only assume (hope) that they are the best.
If countermeasures work against the cream of the crop....
I also wonder what the probable lie for Sadam's goons were?
"Other than murdering 50 people, torturing hundreds, and stealing candy from the candy store when you were five, have you ever...?"
It would seem that you have been yanking your own chain when you spout off about how countermeasurses don't work.
Looks like some of Sadam's boys have proved that they work quite well.
Since these polygraphers are dealing with the most sensative national security issuses, one can only assume (hope) that they are the best.
If countermeasures work against the cream of the crop....
I also wonder what the probable lie for Sadam's goons were?
"Other than murdering 50 people, torturing hundreds, and stealing candy from the candy store when you were five, have you ever...?"
Posted by Batman
- Jul 23, 2003, 07:25 PMAnd here I thought I was using the R&I technique, sometimes known as the Ridiculous & Idiotic Technique, whereupon I attempt to show just how stupid some of the advice given on this site really is.
Capt T,
I don't disdain George, I just dis him! I save the dain for folks I really hate.
I'll tell you my story if you tell me yours. Since you started, YES, I'm a polygraph examiner. Now my turn, are you really a Captain? If so, of what, Industry, a fire department, the military? Now we all know who Batman is, or Superman, or even Captain America; but who or what in the hell is Captain_Truth?
If you're still curious about the really best way to practice for the test, I'll give you a hint: 'Yes/No'. There's the answers bud. Simpy keep saying them over and over and you'll have all the practice you'll need.
BATMAN
Capt T,
I don't disdain George, I just dis him! I save the dain for folks I really hate.
I'll tell you my story if you tell me yours. Since you started, YES, I'm a polygraph examiner. Now my turn, are you really a Captain? If so, of what, Industry, a fire department, the military? Now we all know who Batman is, or Superman, or even Captain America; but who or what in the hell is Captain_Truth?
If you're still curious about the really best way to practice for the test, I'll give you a hint: 'Yes/No'. There's the answers bud. Simpy keep saying them over and over and you'll have all the practice you'll need.
BATMAN
Posted by anonymous1
- Jul 23, 2003, 06:46 PMQuote from: Captain_Truth on Jul 23, 2003, 06:19 PMbatman, why do you have such disdain for george? are you a polygrapher?
He's using a technique known as lampooning, whereupon he attempts (unsuccessfully) to ridicule the exact methods that would be the most productive at thwarting his little machine. Be assured, the more sarcastic he is, the more potent the advice to which he is responding.
Posted by Captain_Truth
- Jul 23, 2003, 06:19 PMbatman, why do you have such disdain for george? are you a polygrapher?
Posted by Captain Truth
- Jul 23, 2003, 06:17 PMQuote from: Batman on Jul 23, 2003, 05:19 PMYou might also try standing on your head in the corner while sucking water through a straw, and humming Amazing Grace on a kazoo!
Damn George, you have one hell of a sense of humor! Here all this time I thought you were serious about this countermeasure crap. Now I know you're just yanking everyones chain.
Capt Truth, I suggest you simply go to bed every night telling yourself, "I am a good boy, I am a good boy...."
If that doesn't work, then eat a bunch of raisins and prunes, then when you feel the urge to hit the shitter, simply follow the adivce of Archie Bell and the Drells, "Do The Tightin' Up".
BATMAN
Posted by Batman
- Jul 23, 2003, 05:19 PMYou might also try standing on your head in the corner while sucking water through a straw, and humming Amazing Grace on a kazoo!
Damn George, you have one hell of a sense of humor! Here all this time I thought you were serious about this countermeasure crap. Now I know you're just yanking everyones chain.
Capt Truth, I suggest you simply go to bed every night telling yourself, "I am a good boy, I am a good boy...."
If that doesn't work, then eat a bunch of raisins and prunes, then when you feel the urge to hit the shitter, simply follow the adivce of Archie Bell and the Drells, "Do The Tightin' Up".
BATMAN
Damn George, you have one hell of a sense of humor! Here all this time I thought you were serious about this countermeasure crap. Now I know you're just yanking everyones chain.
Capt Truth, I suggest you simply go to bed every night telling yourself, "I am a good boy, I am a good boy...."
If that doesn't work, then eat a bunch of raisins and prunes, then when you feel the urge to hit the shitter, simply follow the adivce of Archie Bell and the Drells, "Do The Tightin' Up".
BATMAN