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Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 21, 2001, 04:40 AMRoy,
I think it's a different "John." Note that anyone can post a note as a guest on this message board using any name (except those reserved by registered users).
I think it's a different "John." Note that anyone can post a note as a guest on this message board using any name (except those reserved by registered users).
Posted by Roy
- Jul 21, 2001, 04:08 AMjust wondering if this "john" is the same that is posting in other areas as a pro poly type, calling people that may have failed this sham liers etc...
Posted by Fred F.
- Jul 11, 2001, 11:35 PMQuote from: Burger on Jul 11, 2001, 01:22 PM
Play it up, but whatever you do, don't make any further admissions. Be convincing and stress how important getting this job has been/is to you and the polygrapher will buy into it. You can also use your "worry" to downplay responses to any other questions the polygrapher asks you about. "All I could think about was that Jaywalking thing we talked about. I sure hope it doesn't mess things up for me." "I can't believe I forgot to write that down", etc. What do the rest of you think?
Burger,
The dangerous part of this is that the polygrapher will attempt to say that you are being "deceptive" and try to extort information out of you by creating a hostile environment. The Fight or Flight syndrome will kick in on those who have not been educated to the uselessness of a polygraph.
Therefore it is possible that you may tell the examiner something that they could spin into God knows what and show that you were not only "deceptive" but withholding information. You should never tell the polygrapher what's on your mind, you only stress that you have been truthful and told him everything when you did the pre-polygraph interview and during the actual "test".
This not only will be easier, but can keep the polygrapher from destroying you by spinning comments into admissions of witholding and deception.
Fred F.
Posted by Burger
- Jul 11, 2001, 01:22 PMQuote from: John on Jul 11, 2001, 11:24 AM
"have you been involved in any undetected crime", then you say for instance "Remember, if you interpret the question as strictly as possible, this includes copyright violations (including Napster downloads), underage drinking, jaywalking, fistfights in high school, etc., pretty much all of which I have done, now do I admit some of these, or not?
John,
In a pre-employment situation, I think that a person should "admit" to a very minor infraction, such as jaywalking, but do not confirm anything more recent than age 14 or 15. That way when the question of "have you committed any crimes you haven't already told me about?" is asked you can respond "no". What will most likely happen is the examiner will question you about your response. You can then reply you were thinking about the minor infraction that you already admitted and are worried that something as minor as it will hurt your chances for employment. Play it up, but whatever you do, don't make any further admissions. Be convincing and stress how important getting this job has been/is to you and the polygrapher will buy into it. You can also use your "worry" to downplay responses to any other questions the polygrapher asks you about. "All I could think about was that Jaywalking thing we talked about. I sure hope it doesn't mess things up for me." "I can't believe I forgot to write that down", etc. What do the rest of you think?
Posted by John (Guest)
- Jul 11, 2001, 11:24 AMThanks guys, you have both been more than helpful...
I hope you could help me to understand about employing the countermeasures. I still seem confused about something. If in my former question, on the exam it is stated only, "have you been involved in any undetected crime", then you say for instance "Remember, if you interpret the question as strictly as possible, this includes copyright violations (including Napster downloads), underage drinking, jaywalking, fistfights in high school, etc., pretty much all of which I have done, now do I admit some of these, or not? This is where I get confused because you state on controls they assume you will lie..but if you admit to it are you hurting yourself, if they expect you to lie. Then if it is the case to admit to some of these, then when you are hooked up, and they ask the question, I assume the polygrapher will say besides what you have told me, etc. etc., I am to answer with a "no" then, is this what you say when you state they expect the applicant to answer with a "no".... assuming I answer with a "no", I'll employ a countermeasure....then what happens if they question you about your elevated reaction to this control, if you have already admitted to it, will they assume you are still hiding? I hope you can understand my question. Thanks again
I hope you could help me to understand about employing the countermeasures. I still seem confused about something. If in my former question, on the exam it is stated only, "have you been involved in any undetected crime", then you say for instance "Remember, if you interpret the question as strictly as possible, this includes copyright violations (including Napster downloads), underage drinking, jaywalking, fistfights in high school, etc., pretty much all of which I have done, now do I admit some of these, or not? This is where I get confused because you state on controls they assume you will lie..but if you admit to it are you hurting yourself, if they expect you to lie. Then if it is the case to admit to some of these, then when you are hooked up, and they ask the question, I assume the polygrapher will say besides what you have told me, etc. etc., I am to answer with a "no" then, is this what you say when you state they expect the applicant to answer with a "no".... assuming I answer with a "no", I'll employ a countermeasure....then what happens if they question you about your elevated reaction to this control, if you have already admitted to it, will they assume you are still hiding? I hope you can understand my question. Thanks again
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 11, 2001, 03:38 AMJohn,
I agree with Gino's analysis of the question you asked.
And I solemnly affirm that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a polygrapher.
I agree with Gino's analysis of the question you asked.
And I solemnly affirm that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a polygrapher.
Posted by G Scalabr
- Jul 11, 2001, 03:16 AMQuoteI remember taking a polygraph exam years ago for a state police agency, I recall a question concerning undetected crime, what is a common question concerning this and how should one respond, is it generally a relevant or control?
John, this is an excellent question. "Have you ever committed an undetected crime?" is perhaps the most difficult common polygraph question to classify. This is because it can be either control or relevant depending on exactly how the question is worded and clarified by the polygrapher before it is asked. Specifically, categorizing it depends on if the polygrapher defines "undetected crime" during the pre-test interview or not. If the wording is exactly how you phrased it, and the polygrapher will not clarify ("ANY crime.."), it is a control question. Remember, if you interpret the question as strictly as possible, this includes copyright violations (including Napster downloads), underage drinking, jaywalking, fistfights in high school, etc. Even if the question is worded "Have you ever committed a serious crime?," it is still a control question (serious is subjective—everyone has a different definition).
If, on the other hand, the polygrapher frames the question as to remove the ambiguity, it can quickly become a relevant question. "Have you ever committed a serious crime that has gone undetected?" is a perennial favorite relevant question of the U.S. Secret Service when conducting pre-employment "tests." During the pre-test interview, the second after he finishes asking the question, the polygrapher defines exactly what the Secret Service considers a "serious crime." The last I heard, the agency's definition includes murder, robbery, rape, arson, and forgery (excluding the use of a fake ID for underage drinking purposes, but not excluding making such documents for sale). When a carefully defined list like this is presented, the "crime" question now becomes relevant. Like with your previous question regarding theft, our task is to determine whether or not we think the agency assumes that a desirable applicant can answer this question with an absolutely unequivocal "no." The Secret Service does not assume that a negative response to this question will be a lie. I know this may seem tricky, but once again this question is perhaps the most difficult of all control questions to identify (because it easily goes both ways). If you are still following along with my logic, you should have no problem identifying control questions.
Lastly, neither George nor I have ever been (nor aspire to be) polygraph examiners. We are simply two individuals who have done (and still do) substantial research on the topic and written about what we have found.
Posted by John (Guest)
- Jul 10, 2001, 07:41 PMI remember taking a polygraph exam years ago for a state police agency, I recall a question concerning undetected crime, what is a common question concerning this and how should one respond, is it generally a relevant or control?
thanks in advance
p.s. George were you a former polygrapher...
thanks in advance
p.s. George were you a former polygrapher...