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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by cesium_133
- Oct 29, 2008, 02:53 AMQuoteIt is amazing that they even use these things. Even the American Polygraph Association, purveyors of voodoo science that they are, think the CVSA is junk.
If you look at any pair of websites, one promoting polys and one CVSA, both will bash the other. Why not? They compete with each other to sell the most BS detection devices. As far as I know, no company makes both or promotes both items (could be wrong, but have never heard of it).
Poly sites say CVSA is junk, that some ex-cop from the Midwest invented them based on stuff he heard about while in the Army, and that they have no basis in truth. The poly sites are right, for once.
The CVSA sites will tell you polygaffes, er, polygraphs have too many factors to read and make a consistent, correct analysis of the subject's truthfulness. True. They also say the voice, or actually some inaudible part of it, never lies. Horsehockey... oh, CVSA also relies on post-test interrogation, thus demolishing their own claim to be correct without need of further techniques.
So they're both right in each other's failings and wrong in their own positive assertions about themselves. Whoda thunk it?
Posted by tycop
- Aug 28, 2008, 08:09 AMNYCCOP!!!
As a CVSA examiner and a 7 year NARC I have used the CVSA alot... I am in charge of hiring for my department and here is my input:
First of all: Every Dept. is different in exactly what they are looking for... but the number one thing they are looking for is honesty... trust me we have all f***ed up in the past... as long as you are willing to be honest about what you have done (if not a felony or recently) and you are honest about it... some bad things in the past show that you are human and that you have experienced a few things in life.
I would rather hire an officer who had some life experience with some pot or some underaged drinking or what not... than a cop who has never done anything wrong and doesn't know what it feels like to make a mistake.
Good luck and be confidant and HONEST! That is all they want... trust me they are all human too and have all done some bad things in the past... Some may even say good criminal - good cop!
As a CVSA examiner and a 7 year NARC I have used the CVSA alot... I am in charge of hiring for my department and here is my input:
First of all: Every Dept. is different in exactly what they are looking for... but the number one thing they are looking for is honesty... trust me we have all f***ed up in the past... as long as you are willing to be honest about what you have done (if not a felony or recently) and you are honest about it... some bad things in the past show that you are human and that you have experienced a few things in life.
I would rather hire an officer who had some life experience with some pot or some underaged drinking or what not... than a cop who has never done anything wrong and doesn't know what it feels like to make a mistake.
Good luck and be confidant and HONEST! That is all they want... trust me they are all human too and have all done some bad things in the past... Some may even say good criminal - good cop!
Posted by suethem
- Feb 09, 2004, 12:59 AMNYCOP,
CVSA is just like the polygraph- a hoax! Its a investigational tool designed to elicit confessions.
CVSA cannot determine whether you are telling the truth or not. People who lie pass CVSA exams- and people who tell the truth fail CVSA exams.
Somewhere here on this site I read about an independent study, funded by the justice department, that concludes that CVSA is an invalid form of lie detection (of course the government said that those conclusions were not the official justice department position on the matter- go figure if they decide to replace the polygraph with another scam).
I bet your Police union in NYC has stopped your department from using CVSA. Its too bad other police unions have not confronted this issue.
CVSA is just another scam- like spray on hair or penis enlargement pumps (both sold at CVSA conventions)!
CVSA is just like the polygraph- a hoax! Its a investigational tool designed to elicit confessions.
CVSA cannot determine whether you are telling the truth or not. People who lie pass CVSA exams- and people who tell the truth fail CVSA exams.
Somewhere here on this site I read about an independent study, funded by the justice department, that concludes that CVSA is an invalid form of lie detection (of course the government said that those conclusions were not the official justice department position on the matter- go figure if they decide to replace the polygraph with another scam).
I bet your Police union in NYC has stopped your department from using CVSA. Its too bad other police unions have not confronted this issue.
CVSA is just another scam- like spray on hair or penis enlargement pumps (both sold at CVSA conventions)!
Posted by Ruthless_freak
- Feb 08, 2004, 11:27 PMNYCCOP,
As a detective and CVSA examiner, I can tell you that it is preached that a truth verification tool is used to screen someone into a job, not out of the job. Officers are hired from the human race, so be honest, unless you have commited some sort of felony, or done something crazy recently, don't worry about your college days. We have all been there... Police departments are looking for honest people, so I tell you, if you did something, let them know up front at the pretest-interview... You'd be surprised where honesty gets you in this world. Just FYI
As a detective and CVSA examiner, I can tell you that it is preached that a truth verification tool is used to screen someone into a job, not out of the job. Officers are hired from the human race, so be honest, unless you have commited some sort of felony, or done something crazy recently, don't worry about your college days. We have all been there... Police departments are looking for honest people, so I tell you, if you did something, let them know up front at the pretest-interview... You'd be surprised where honesty gets you in this world. Just FYI
Posted by nyccop
- Sep 28, 2003, 05:20 AMi am a cop in NYC (where no agency that i know of uses polys or VSA's) and i am looking to get out of this city. seems like every LE agency outside of the NY/NJ area uses these techniques. in the past i have limited the positions i have applied for simply based on whether or not they have a poly in their selection process. recently i have decided to just go for it... what's the worst that can happen? no, really... what's the worst that can happen? when i was in college and for a year or so after i was as any other college kid... looking back i can call them mistakes, but i am a good guy and a good cop. it seems that they care more about me smoking a little bit in college more than they care about my ability to do the job well. any input? would like to hear about any experiences.
have a safe tour!
have a safe tour!
Posted by Poly-Killer
- Jun 20, 2003, 07:37 AMGirly,
If you plan on continuing to smoke MJ, I suggest you steer clear of LE work. You will only end up in trouble and giving LE another black eye that it certainly doesn't need. I'm no angel, but I have NEVER reverted back to my old ways. It had been a while (about 7 years) between my last use and the time I applied with the 1st agency I worked for and I knew I was done with it...for good. If you truly want to be in LE, you need to have a clear head, it's a tough job and being high ain't gonna cut it.
Please, take these things into consideration before you join. Either give the stuff up forever, or do something else. You'll only end up disgracing yourself, your family and your fellow officers.
Beech,
I would say that the vast majority of officers I know don't fool around with any of that stuff. Do I follow them home and watch them? Of course not (That's for I.A.), but I work with them daily and any "true" officer won't go down that road. Are there some that do? Yes, but I suspect very few. Given the way LEO's "live in a fishbowl" for all to see, it would be foolish to mess with drugs at all. Not to mention that if an officer is involved in a shooting, a motor vehicle accident or any other event the dept deems appropriate, the officer is subject to testing.
Best,
PK
If you plan on continuing to smoke MJ, I suggest you steer clear of LE work. You will only end up in trouble and giving LE another black eye that it certainly doesn't need. I'm no angel, but I have NEVER reverted back to my old ways. It had been a while (about 7 years) between my last use and the time I applied with the 1st agency I worked for and I knew I was done with it...for good. If you truly want to be in LE, you need to have a clear head, it's a tough job and being high ain't gonna cut it.
Please, take these things into consideration before you join. Either give the stuff up forever, or do something else. You'll only end up disgracing yourself, your family and your fellow officers.
Beech,
I would say that the vast majority of officers I know don't fool around with any of that stuff. Do I follow them home and watch them? Of course not (That's for I.A.), but I work with them daily and any "true" officer won't go down that road. Are there some that do? Yes, but I suspect very few. Given the way LEO's "live in a fishbowl" for all to see, it would be foolish to mess with drugs at all. Not to mention that if an officer is involved in a shooting, a motor vehicle accident or any other event the dept deems appropriate, the officer is subject to testing.
Best,
PK
Posted by GIRLYPIG
- Jun 20, 2003, 04:07 AMQuote from: girly on Jun 20, 2003, 04:04 AM::)THANKS FOR SOME OF THE ADVICE TO ALL WHO REPLIED. SO I FIGURED, WHY THE HELL SHOULD I SIT HERE AND STRESS, THE "POT" AND I WILL ALWAYS REMAIN FRIENDS AND THE POLYGRAPH TEST IS A LOAD OF CHEEZE WHIZ A.K.A. CRAP IN A CAN! I DOWNLOADED THE COPY, READ IT, AND AM READY TO SAY " YOU WANT THE TRUTH?, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
THANX GUYS!
Posted by girly
- Jun 20, 2003, 04:04 AM ::)THANKS FOR SOME OF THE ADVICE TO ALL WHO REPLIED. SO I FIGURED, WHY THE HELL SHOULD I SIT HERE AND STRESS, THE "POT" AND I WILL ALWAYS REMAIN FRIENDS AND THE POLYGRAPH TEST IS A LOAD OF CHEEZE WHIZ A.K.A. CRAP IN A CAN! I DOWNLOADED THE COPY, READ IT, AND AM READY TO SAY " YOU WANT THE TRUTH?, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
THANX GUYS!
THANX GUYS!
Posted by suethem
- Jun 18, 2003, 11:50 PMsaidme,
you wrote,"... join law enforcement..."
If she is taking a CVSA test to join a LE agency, then she is taking a pre-emplyment polygraph (CVSA is a type of polygraph).
Since you have said that you are only concerned with criminal investigation type polys, I wondered why you commented.
you wrote,"... join law enforcement..."
If she is taking a CVSA test to join a LE agency, then she is taking a pre-emplyment polygraph (CVSA is a type of polygraph).
Since you have said that you are only concerned with criminal investigation type polys, I wondered why you commented.
Posted by Saidme
- Jun 18, 2003, 11:40 PMOne at a time boys (and/or girls)
Beech
How did you infer that from my statement? I'm just curious why a drug user would want to get into law enforcement. Seems like a major conflict to me.
Dip*&^% (I mean Orolan)
Where do you see anything about pre-employment polygraph?
Beech
How did you infer that from my statement? I'm just curious why a drug user would want to get into law enforcement. Seems like a major conflict to me.
Dip*&^% (I mean Orolan)
Where do you see anything about pre-employment polygraph?
Posted by suethem
- Jun 18, 2003, 11:36 PMSaidme,
I thought you were not interested in pre- employment polys?
I thought you were not interested in pre- employment polys?
Posted by orolan
- Jun 18, 2003, 02:43 PMOh no 
You went and did it now beech. You know that saidme places LEO's right up at the top with Jesus Christ. They never would do illegal drugs. How can you think such a thing? Well, you have shown your true colors, you pot smokin' fiend 
You went and did it now beech. You know that saidme places LEO's right up at the top with Jesus Christ. They never would do illegal drugs. How can you think such a thing? Well, you have shown your true colors, you pot smokin' fiend Posted by beech trees
- Jun 18, 2003, 11:36 AMQuote from: Saidme on Jun 17, 2003, 09:17 PMgirlysheriff
If you've engaged in some "tokin" recently, why on earth would you want to join law enforcement? Why don'tyou just keep on tokin?
Are you actually asserting that police officers don't regularly abuse illegal drugs, saidme?
Posted by Saidme
- Jun 17, 2003, 09:17 PMgirlysheriff
If you've engaged in some "tokin" recently, why on earth would you want to join law enforcement? Why don'tyou just keep on tokin?
If you've engaged in some "tokin" recently, why on earth would you want to join law enforcement? Why don'tyou just keep on tokin?
Posted by orolan
- Jun 17, 2003, 02:01 PMgirlysheriff,
Download and read TLBTLD. I believe there is a section in it regarding CVSA examinations.
It is amazing that they even use these things. Even the American Polygraph Association, purveyors of voodoo science that they are, think the CVSA is junk.
Download and read TLBTLD. I believe there is a section in it regarding CVSA examinations.
It is amazing that they even use these things. Even the American Polygraph Association, purveyors of voodoo science that they are, think the CVSA is junk.