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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 07, 2003, 09:17 AMOnesimus,
The only search capability this message board has is that which you may have already found by clicking on the search button near the top of the page. It allows one to search for posts older than and/or more recent than a specified number of days ago.
The only search capability this message board has is that which you may have already found by clicking on the search button near the top of the page. It allows one to search for posts older than and/or more recent than a specified number of days ago.
Posted by Onesimus
- Jul 06, 2003, 07:02 PMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Jul 05, 2003, 01:41 PMOnesimus,
What is the "next appropriate thing to do" that you had in mind? (I was thinking that the next step might be to contact your congressman and senators.)
Close, but not yet. Actually I have been procrastinating a little with my next step.
Saidme, could you refrain from posting your drivel on my thread? Even if the pro-polygraph crowd could demonstrate that George lied to a relevant question during his polygraph, were the anti-Christ, recipient of blow-jobs from other members of this forum, overly pudgy, an avid fisherman, scrabble aficionado, or any of the other labels the pro-polygraph community on this site has given him, the polygraph would not magically become a valid tool. Certainly it wouldn't justify the government asking about the bra sizes of girls, asking about hypothetical sexually-oriented situations with girls, claiming that 12-14 year old girls dress for sex with 19, 24, or 29 year-old men, suggesting that the opinions of their parents are irrelevant since they would not be privy to our conversation, making false accusations that my adjudicator and I both knew I was lying, my preference in breast size for women, etc. – WHICH LAST TIME I CHECKED WAS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS TRHEAD. Take you petty squabbles with George elsewhere. The polygraph community, or at least the portion of it that chooses to post on this site, appears to suffer from serious psychological problems.
So what is your take on my experience? I didn't pass my life-style in my two attempts and yet I got the ISSA clearance. Did the government just let a pedophile into their ranks? Did the polygraph process fail? Or will I soon find out that this was all some sick joke and I'm going to be on the Jamie Kennedy experiment or the next FOX Reality TV show?
George, putting the bumper sticker on my car could have plenty of positive and negative consequences. Its quite likely that the overall effect will be positive, but its also within the realm of possibilities that a rapist or killer could be enlightened on how to pass a polygraph, remain on the streets, and strike again. (I'm not claiming to know what the odds are, but that they are non-zero). Its also possible that in the long run forcing the police to do real detective work instead of relying on the polygraph will put more rapists and killers behind bars. But I don't know enough to make that call right now, and I do not take the potential downside of my actions lightly. I might still put the stickers on my car if I deem it appropriate, but not until I'm confident its the right thing to do. (which will probably take awhile since polygraph still ranks low on my priority list).
Do you have any advanced methods for searching for old posts on this website (i.e. based on text of message, date posted, etc.)?
Posted by anonymouse
- Jul 05, 2003, 09:10 PMQuote from: Saidme on Jul 05, 2003, 07:36 PMOnesimus
And make sure you tell them how George was wronged by the FBI when he went in and took his polygraph.
And that 'saidme' is a paid professional liar.
Posted by Saidme
- Jul 05, 2003, 07:36 PMOnesimus
And make sure you tell them how George was wronged by the FBI when he went in and took his polygraph.
And make sure you tell them how George was wronged by the FBI when he went in and took his polygraph.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 05, 2003, 01:41 PMOnesimus,
What is the "next appropriate thing to do" that you had in mind? (I was thinking that the next step might be to contact your congressman and senators.)
What is the "next appropriate thing to do" that you had in mind? (I was thinking that the next step might be to contact your congressman and senators.)
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 25, 2003, 04:40 AMOnesimus,
First, congratulations on receiving your clearance!
Regarding the bumper stickers, I didn't realize you had used the PDF I posted. If you had had a sticker produced using one of the on-line templates, I would have been interested in seeing how they came out.
What sort of "wrong hands" are you concerned would obtain information about the polygraph from a bumper sticker on your car? Any criminals interested in learning how to beat the polygraph will have no trouble finding out how -- it's the unsuspecting law-abiding population that never thinks twice about polygraphy that needs to be informed. I think the fact that polygraphy is a pseudoscientific fraud needs to become widespread public knowledge if polygraph screening is ultimately to be abolished.
First, congratulations on receiving your clearance!
Regarding the bumper stickers, I didn't realize you had used the PDF I posted. If you had had a sticker produced using one of the on-line templates, I would have been interested in seeing how they came out.
What sort of "wrong hands" are you concerned would obtain information about the polygraph from a bumper sticker on your car? Any criminals interested in learning how to beat the polygraph will have no trouble finding out how -- it's the unsuspecting law-abiding population that never thinks twice about polygraphy that needs to be informed. I think the fact that polygraphy is a pseudoscientific fraud needs to become widespread public knowledge if polygraph screening is ultimately to be abolished.
Posted by Onesimus
- Jun 25, 2003, 01:18 AMSome quick updates:
Received my clearance this week.
Still no response to my letter.
I don't have a scanner, but they look just like the .pdf file. I'm sure they're doing a lot of good sitting in my drawer too
I'm reluctant to provide free access advertising on my car since the information may fall into the wrong hands... I may just slap one of them on next to my desk.
I don't want to be hypocritical and drop the fight after I get both feet in the door, so any ideas on what I should do next? I think I know what the next appropriate thing to do is but I'd like to hear from the less fortunate victims.
Received my clearance this week.
Still no response to my letter.
Quote from: George W. Maschke on Jun 08, 2003, 03:51 AMHow did your bumper stickers turn out? If you'd care to scan them before you place them on your car and e-mail the images to me, I'd be happy to post them here.
I don't have a scanner, but they look just like the .pdf file. I'm sure they're doing a lot of good sitting in my drawer too
I'm reluctant to provide free access advertising on my car since the information may fall into the wrong hands... I may just slap one of them on next to my desk. I don't want to be hypocritical and drop the fight after I get both feet in the door, so any ideas on what I should do next? I think I know what the next appropriate thing to do is but I'd like to hear from the less fortunate victims.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 08, 2003, 03:51 AMThanks for sharing this, Onesimus. I hope you receive a timely and satisfactory response to your letter.
How did your bumper stickers turn out? If you'd care to scan them before you place them on your car and e-mail the images to me, I'd be happy to post them here.
How did your bumper stickers turn out? If you'd care to scan them before you place them on your car and e-mail the images to me, I'd be happy to post them here.
Posted by Onesimus
- Jun 08, 2003, 03:17 AMSome updates....
I got the bumper stickers in the mail awhile ago, but haven't put them on my car yet.
Someone from the government called me up to discuss the complaint I filed. I think he was a member of quality control in the clearance division. Basically, his strategy was to try and excuse what took place without actually acknowledging what took place. I sent a letter to my company two days later to be forwarded to the government as shown below.
---
I don't know the official title of the person I spoke to on the phone, so I will refer to him as the "misconduct investigator". It appeared that his goal in the conversation was to excuse the government's conduct without acknowledging any specifics of what happened. He also mentioned that he wasn't interested in getting into "he said, she said" arguments. The conversation was unproductive and he told me to get in contact with him through you if I had anything further to add. Below are my comments.
In order to discuss whether or not my adjudicator's conduct was appropriate, it is necessary to first establish what that conduct involved. Below is a list of a few things that happened during the interview. The government should acknowledge these. If the government believes anything I have written is inaccurate, it can provide its own version of what happened.
1) My adjudicator told me that we both knew I was lying and that my body was telling him that I was lying.
2) My adjudicator's use of slang included the terms "shaved tail" and "twat".
3) My adjudicator asked for the bra size (cup and number) of one of the children in my Youth Group. He persisted when I told him I didn't know until I gave him guesses for cup and number. My adjudicator asked for additional details about the child including but not limited to weight, eye color, and hair color.
4) My adjudicator portrayed Junior High girls as people who dress for sex with older men.
5) My adjudicator tried to convince me that one of the Junior High students was interested in me until I relented and stated that it was at least possible that she was interested in me. He then questioned me about what I would do if one of the Junior High students somehow let me know they were interested in me. He further went on to question me what I would do if one of them gave me a pat on the "cheek". After my response that I would probably ignore it, he asked me what I would do if they did it a second time.
6) My adjudicator indicated that it did not matter what the parents of the Junior High kids would think about our conversation since they weren't going to find out.
7) My adjudicator purported to be confused about why I was uncomfortable during the interview.
This is far from a complete list of what happened during the interview and does not contain many specifics about what was said for each list item. List item number 5 in particular has many details left out concerning my protests and his responses to my protests.
After talking to the misconduct investigator on the phone, I am highly skeptical of his intentions. I have three simple questions listed below that may help to shed light on his intentions. I am not interested in speaking with him any further until he provides straight-forward responses.
1) Did you ask my adjudicator if the allegations I made concerning his questions about the bra size of a Junior High girl were true?
2) Did my adjudicator confirm or deny my allegations concerning his questions about the bra size of a Junior High girl?
3) Does your agency believe that it is appropriate to ask questions about the bra sizes of Junior High girls?
Hopefully the responses I get from the government will help to reveal their true intentions for this misconduct investigation.
-----
I also spoke to some of my coworkers after the phone call because it got me pretty worked up again. It was interesting to hear their responses, but I don't feel like mentioning them at the moment....
I also talked to my manager and he had me write up an account for some security people within my company. I won't include that write-up here even though it contains a number of details I haven't posted on this site because it also reveals information that might reveal the Junior High kid most affected.
The government still has not admitted to anything, but I'm told I have a new investigator and should have a decision on my clearance within a month.
-----
I must say I find the remarks by batman, Fed-up Fed, Amused, etc. very amusing. But then I remember that is was people like them who tormented me not too long ago. It's mind-boggling to think about who the government puts so much trust in.
I got the bumper stickers in the mail awhile ago, but haven't put them on my car yet.
Someone from the government called me up to discuss the complaint I filed. I think he was a member of quality control in the clearance division. Basically, his strategy was to try and excuse what took place without actually acknowledging what took place. I sent a letter to my company two days later to be forwarded to the government as shown below.
---
I don't know the official title of the person I spoke to on the phone, so I will refer to him as the "misconduct investigator". It appeared that his goal in the conversation was to excuse the government's conduct without acknowledging any specifics of what happened. He also mentioned that he wasn't interested in getting into "he said, she said" arguments. The conversation was unproductive and he told me to get in contact with him through you if I had anything further to add. Below are my comments.
In order to discuss whether or not my adjudicator's conduct was appropriate, it is necessary to first establish what that conduct involved. Below is a list of a few things that happened during the interview. The government should acknowledge these. If the government believes anything I have written is inaccurate, it can provide its own version of what happened.
1) My adjudicator told me that we both knew I was lying and that my body was telling him that I was lying.
2) My adjudicator's use of slang included the terms "shaved tail" and "twat".
3) My adjudicator asked for the bra size (cup and number) of one of the children in my Youth Group. He persisted when I told him I didn't know until I gave him guesses for cup and number. My adjudicator asked for additional details about the child including but not limited to weight, eye color, and hair color.
4) My adjudicator portrayed Junior High girls as people who dress for sex with older men.
5) My adjudicator tried to convince me that one of the Junior High students was interested in me until I relented and stated that it was at least possible that she was interested in me. He then questioned me about what I would do if one of the Junior High students somehow let me know they were interested in me. He further went on to question me what I would do if one of them gave me a pat on the "cheek". After my response that I would probably ignore it, he asked me what I would do if they did it a second time.
6) My adjudicator indicated that it did not matter what the parents of the Junior High kids would think about our conversation since they weren't going to find out.
7) My adjudicator purported to be confused about why I was uncomfortable during the interview.
This is far from a complete list of what happened during the interview and does not contain many specifics about what was said for each list item. List item number 5 in particular has many details left out concerning my protests and his responses to my protests.
After talking to the misconduct investigator on the phone, I am highly skeptical of his intentions. I have three simple questions listed below that may help to shed light on his intentions. I am not interested in speaking with him any further until he provides straight-forward responses.
1) Did you ask my adjudicator if the allegations I made concerning his questions about the bra size of a Junior High girl were true?
2) Did my adjudicator confirm or deny my allegations concerning his questions about the bra size of a Junior High girl?
3) Does your agency believe that it is appropriate to ask questions about the bra sizes of Junior High girls?
Hopefully the responses I get from the government will help to reveal their true intentions for this misconduct investigation.
-----
I also spoke to some of my coworkers after the phone call because it got me pretty worked up again. It was interesting to hear their responses, but I don't feel like mentioning them at the moment....
I also talked to my manager and he had me write up an account for some security people within my company. I won't include that write-up here even though it contains a number of details I haven't posted on this site because it also reveals information that might reveal the Junior High kid most affected.
The government still has not admitted to anything, but I'm told I have a new investigator and should have a decision on my clearance within a month.
-----
I must say I find the remarks by batman, Fed-up Fed, Amused, etc. very amusing. But then I remember that is was people like them who tormented me not too long ago. It's mind-boggling to think about who the government puts so much trust in.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 26, 2003, 06:18 AMOnesimus,
Here is another blurb that might be suitable for a bumper sticker (and is very likely to appear on a new AntiPolygraph.org poster):
Here is another blurb that might be suitable for a bumper sticker (and is very likely to appear on a new AntiPolygraph.org poster):
The National Academy of Sciences
doesn't believe in polygraphs...
Do you?
doesn't believe in polygraphs...
Do you?
Posted by Poly-Killer
- May 26, 2003, 05:48 AMQuote from: Amused on May 25, 2003, 11:00 PMBumper stickers!!! Great idea. Hey and you could also plater them all over the bathroom walls next to your stupid ass poster. George your does you ego need that much repair?
Amused,
As I stated in a different thread, please stop with the senseless dribble. Either present a valid point in at least a semi-coherent fashion, or save everyone the agony of trying to read through one of your posts. By the way, I noticed you didn't reply to the post where I addressed your comments, did I use too many big words? In case you don't remember which one...it was in "POST-CONVICTION POLYGRAPH PROGRAMS" In the "Passed the maintenance exam" thread, dated May 21st.
Just curious.
PK
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 26, 2003, 05:44 AMOnesimus,
The AntiPolygraph.org logo leaves room for more text when printed large enough to fit the width of a 10" x 3" bumper sticker. I've made a trial design that combines the logo with the text "Polygraph testing is junk science!":
http://antipolygraph.org/bumper-sticker-001.pdf
I think this fits Makestickers.com parameters for custom design submission. What do you think?
I'll think some more about other appropriate blurbs that could be used.
The AntiPolygraph.org logo leaves room for more text when printed large enough to fit the width of a 10" x 3" bumper sticker. I've made a trial design that combines the logo with the text "Polygraph testing is junk science!":
http://antipolygraph.org/bumper-sticker-001.pdf
I think this fits Makestickers.com parameters for custom design submission. What do you think?
I'll think some more about other appropriate blurbs that could be used.
Posted by mahal83
- May 26, 2003, 04:54 AMI guess Amused forgot to pay attention during english class when he was in school, or is he just a drop out?
Posted by Onesimus
- May 26, 2003, 04:34 AMwww.makestickers.com looks like a good choice since it doesn't have minimum order quantities. www.bumperstatements.com might work too.
I'm still looking for a left/right combo with the left side giving a short blurb on whats wrong with the polygraph.
Buying in bulk does cut down on the cost, but reshipping them to other people might negate that. They don't fit in envelopes (unless you cut them in half).
I'm still looking for a left/right combo with the left side giving a short blurb on whats wrong with the polygraph.
Buying in bulk does cut down on the cost, but reshipping them to other people might negate that. They don't fit in envelopes (unless you cut them in half).
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 26, 2003, 03:33 AMOnesimus,
A PDF file with the AntiPolygraph.org logo may be downloaded here:
http://antipolygraph.org/antipolygraph-dot-org.pdf
A PDF file with the AntiPolygraph.org logo may be downloaded here:
http://antipolygraph.org/antipolygraph-dot-org.pdf