- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by The Shadow
- Apr 19, 2003, 01:47 AMCode Select
George,
Just curious, since the NAS report was published have any Federal Agencies dropped their use of polygraph? Have any of the agencies even cut back on their use?
BatmanGlad to see your back posting Batman, we all missed your eloquent diatribes and profound use of vulgarities. Posted by orolan
- Apr 18, 2003, 08:40 PM"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." - Samuel Adams
Posted by beech trees
- Apr 18, 2003, 06:50 PMThis federal government still collects a telephone tax to help pay for the Spanish-American War. I think it would be foolish to think such a leviathian would work in any speed save sluggish torpor, even in the face of such damning evidence as the NAS Report.
Posted by Mark Mallah
- Apr 18, 2003, 06:23 PMNeither does the government intend to slash welfare benefits to the undeserving or taxes to those excessively taxed. The government also has no serious plans to reform or eliminate social security, a system that cannot sustain itself.
All of which means that just because the government continues a particular practice, it does not mean that its continuation is justified. Large bureacracies often have the political power to preserve and expand their influence without regard to the actual effects of that influence. Failure is often rewarded with more money and resources. These are the realities and shortcomings of government.
Incidentally, polygraphy is not doing so great on the political scoreboard anyway. The EPPA severely narrowed its use to a relatively tiny fiefdom.
All of which means that just because the government continues a particular practice, it does not mean that its continuation is justified. Large bureacracies often have the political power to preserve and expand their influence without regard to the actual effects of that influence. Failure is often rewarded with more money and resources. These are the realities and shortcomings of government.
Incidentally, polygraphy is not doing so great on the political scoreboard anyway. The EPPA severely narrowed its use to a relatively tiny fiefdom.
Posted by Drew Richardson
- Apr 18, 2003, 06:11 PMBatman/PDD-Fed,
Although I no longer have any direct input from those who would know the answer to Batman's questions, I suspect that the answer to both questions would be no. This is no particular surprise though. Those who expect change do not see it coming from the ranks of intransigent bureaucrats from these agencies who have staked their reputations and careers on the debunked technology of days gone by. Such change will occur as the public becomes enlightened and its representatives in Congress take the appropriate actions to bring this to be.
PDD-Fed, although I very much appreciate the wit of Mark Twain, I believe a more apt sentiment as it relates to the predicted response from the NAS report (and even DOE's apparent misstep) comes from Winston Churchill as he described the status of things following victories in North Africa in WWII.... "This is not the beginning of the end...but perhaps the end of the beginning." The degree of ignorance regarding polygraph screening that existed before the NAS report will never again exist and, on a day by day basis, it continually diminishes. Another appropriate quote for those who would seek to confuscate the weaknesses of polygraph screening by turning out the lights of close inspection comes from former heavyweight boxing champion Joe Lewis..."You can run, but you can't hide." The lights are on and this application's day is coming. No one posting on this message board site can predict the exact timing of that day, but it is coming...
Although I no longer have any direct input from those who would know the answer to Batman's questions, I suspect that the answer to both questions would be no. This is no particular surprise though. Those who expect change do not see it coming from the ranks of intransigent bureaucrats from these agencies who have staked their reputations and careers on the debunked technology of days gone by. Such change will occur as the public becomes enlightened and its representatives in Congress take the appropriate actions to bring this to be.
PDD-Fed, although I very much appreciate the wit of Mark Twain, I believe a more apt sentiment as it relates to the predicted response from the NAS report (and even DOE's apparent misstep) comes from Winston Churchill as he described the status of things following victories in North Africa in WWII.... "This is not the beginning of the end...but perhaps the end of the beginning." The degree of ignorance regarding polygraph screening that existed before the NAS report will never again exist and, on a day by day basis, it continually diminishes. Another appropriate quote for those who would seek to confuscate the weaknesses of polygraph screening by turning out the lights of close inspection comes from former heavyweight boxing champion Joe Lewis..."You can run, but you can't hide." The lights are on and this application's day is coming. No one posting on this message board site can predict the exact timing of that day, but it is coming...
Posted by PDD-Fed
- Apr 18, 2003, 03:21 PMQuote from: Batman on Apr 18, 2003, 02:20 PMGeorge,
Just curious, since the NAS report was published have any Federal Agencies dropped their use of polygraph? Have any of the agencies even cut back on their use?
Batman
Hey Batman, I can answer your last question. The answer is NO. Not a single government agency has cut back on the use of polygraph. Nor do I believe they intend to.
I admit it brings me some pleasure to recall that when the NAS came out, all the regulars on this site snickered in self- congratulatory satisifaction over the imminent "death" of the polygraph profession. To the contrary, polygraph testing in the government has increased significantly. Heck, for the first time in history, my agency can't even get all the seats we need in the DoDPI basic course, because every class has been FULL. This brings to mind something I posted recently on another string. I believe it was Mark Twain who said,
"The news of my death has been greatly exaggerated."
PDD-Fed
Posted by Batman
- Apr 18, 2003, 02:20 PMGeorge,
Just curious, since the NAS report was published have any Federal Agencies dropped their use of polygraph? Have any of the agencies even cut back on their use?
Batman
Just curious, since the NAS report was published have any Federal Agencies dropped their use of polygraph? Have any of the agencies even cut back on their use?
Batman
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 18, 2003, 01:24 PMA document at MIT includes a noteworth quote by Stephen Fienberg, who chaired the National Academy of Sciences' polygraph review committee:
"Polygraph testing has been the gold standard, but it's obviously fool's gold."
"Polygraph testing has been the gold standard, but it's obviously fool's gold."