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Posted by Anonymous
- Feb 22, 2003, 11:17 AMGuest,
I would surmise that you mean MGQT, modified general question test, just one of the many invalid control question test (CQT) formats (lie detection tests). This particular format is even more suspect than others inasmuch as it takes a shotgun approach to relevant issues (mixes several within the same test (polygraph chart)) as opposed to a more focused/narrow approach such as a ZCT (zone comparison test) that typically focuses on one relevant issue. Although better, the latter format is also seriously lacking in a fundamental theoretical basis for practice as well as any meaningful scientific control and validity.
I would surmise that you mean MGQT, modified general question test, just one of the many invalid control question test (CQT) formats (lie detection tests). This particular format is even more suspect than others inasmuch as it takes a shotgun approach to relevant issues (mixes several within the same test (polygraph chart)) as opposed to a more focused/narrow approach such as a ZCT (zone comparison test) that typically focuses on one relevant issue. Although better, the latter format is also seriously lacking in a fundamental theoretical basis for practice as well as any meaningful scientific control and validity.
Posted by Guest
- Feb 22, 2003, 10:20 AMThank you Skeptic and Beechtree for your rebuttal. While awaiting a response to my original post I had the opportunity to review other parts of this site and appreciate your valuable input.
Mr. Maschke, I appreciate the wealth of information you provided as well. i will prepare and study both the R/I and "probable lie" control question test in the time being. By the way, when I said "MQT" I think I meant MQCT - Modified Control Question Test?
I'm still pretty new to this and unfamiliar so I apologize for the misinformation.
THANKS!!
Mr. Maschke, I appreciate the wealth of information you provided as well. i will prepare and study both the R/I and "probable lie" control question test in the time being. By the way, when I said "MQT" I think I meant MQCT - Modified Control Question Test?
I'm still pretty new to this and unfamiliar so I apologize for the misinformation.THANKS!!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 22, 2003, 05:30 AMGuest,
You ask:
That is correct. The consensus in the polygraph community seems to be that a polygraph examination should not run longer than this, because it is believed that it would result in decreased in accuracy. I am not certain what the basis for this belief is, nor am I aware of any peer-reviewed research on the subject.
In early editions of his manual, "How to Sting the Polygraph," Doug Williams (www.polygraph.com) recommended augmenting physiological responses to only one "control" question. I asked him the reason for this, and he explained that it was to avoid the risk that an examinee might erroneously augment his/her reactions to a relevant question. I believe that Mr. Williams now recommends that examinees augment their physiological responses to all "control" questions that they clearly recognize as such.
I'm not sure what you mean by "MQT." Most municipal PDs seem to be using probable-lie "control" question "tests," though some use the relevant/irrelevant technique.
You ask:
Quote1) After what might be an intensive pre-interview I understand that the examiner will first review all of the questions he has "composed" from your interview prior to asking them on the machine. And from everything I have read, it indicates that there will only be between 8 - 12 questions. Is this accurate? and if so, why so limited?
That is correct. The consensus in the polygraph community seems to be that a polygraph examination should not run longer than this, because it is believed that it would result in decreased in accuracy. I am not certain what the basis for this belief is, nor am I aware of any peer-reviewed research on the subject.
Quote2) I have also seen a recent post regarding countermeasures on the poly and the fact that the individual stated you should limit your use to only one control question. If one were employing CMs, why would it be best to identify only one control question and respond with excitement versus several if you are definite about the difference between the relevant and control questions?
In early editions of his manual, "How to Sting the Polygraph," Doug Williams (www.polygraph.com) recommended augmenting physiological responses to only one "control" question. I asked him the reason for this, and he explained that it was to avoid the risk that an examinee might erroneously augment his/her reactions to a relevant question. I believe that Mr. Williams now recommends that examinees augment their physiological responses to all "control" questions that they clearly recognize as such.
Quote3) In municipal PDs, which type of test would you think is most common? CQT? or MQT? or ??
I'm not sure what you mean by "MQT." Most municipal PDs seem to be using probable-lie "control" question "tests," though some use the relevant/irrelevant technique.
Posted by beech trees
- Feb 22, 2003, 02:37 AMQuote from: PolyPeople on Feb 22, 2003, 01:33 AM
As much as I hate to say this.....CM's are difficult to recommmend because most people know they don't work
Um, no. Actually entire seminars are now taught focusing on the detection of countermeasures. If they didn't work, why would polygraphers attend seminars dedicated to detecting them? Countermeasures DO work, they CANNOT be detected.
Quoteand don't want to come back on here and admit their failure.
Why would that be? Your logic eludes me.
QuoteTry a different approach - like honesty.
What a novel concept. Will I get the same honesty in return from my polygraph interrogator?
Posted by Skeptic
- Feb 22, 2003, 01:56 AMQuote
As much as I hate to say this.....CM's are difficult to recommmend because most people know they don't work and don't want to come back on here and admit their failure.
That must be why polygraphers claim this site helps criminals and terrorists by providing CM info.
QuoteTry a different approach - like honesty.
Hey, try both at the same time -- why limit yourself?
Skeptic
Note: This post has been edited to fix a formatting code problem. No text has been changed. -- AntiPolygraph.org Administrator.
Posted by PolyPeople
- Feb 22, 2003, 01:33 AMAs much as I hate to say this.....CM's are difficult to recommmend because most people know they don't work and don't want to come back on here and admit their failure. Try a different approach - like honesty. 
Posted by LawMan Hopeful
- Feb 22, 2003, 12:59 AMTo the first guest's credit, I have two of the same questions...this site talks much less about the municipal dept's poly and much more about the FBI's which I assume is much more intensive and damning, but similar nonetheless.
I have read that PDs often use the Relevant/Irrelevant test (Lykken's A Tremor in The Blood) but the Lie Behind the Lie Detector suggests that Lykken is mistaken and it is more likely a CQT. I'm not sure about the question about responding to only one control question, but I would probably heed Skeptic's advice on that one.
And as far as how many questions are on a PD type poly??? I would like to know that myself??? Anyone?
I have read that PDs often use the Relevant/Irrelevant test (Lykken's A Tremor in The Blood) but the Lie Behind the Lie Detector suggests that Lykken is mistaken and it is more likely a CQT. I'm not sure about the question about responding to only one control question, but I would probably heed Skeptic's advice on that one.
And as far as how many questions are on a PD type poly??? I would like to know that myself??? Anyone?
Posted by Skeptic
- Feb 21, 2003, 11:33 PMFrom all I've read on the subject, polygraph questions on a CQT are graded individually. In other words, you'll want to use countermeasures on every control question, not just one. Otherwise, you'd be in danger of being found "deception indicated" on a given relevant question if you show a higher "reaction" on it than an adjacent control.
Skeptic
Skeptic
Posted by Grown Up
- Feb 21, 2003, 11:21 PM1) Usually polygrafs for PDs are much longer like 2 hours or so.
2) The CMs - that's b/c if you react to all of them the examiner will know you are using countermeasures. So, choose one of your liking and really over reeact
3) I think they useually use a Relevent/Irrelevent type of test nowadays
I'm not sure but this from what i have read
2) The CMs - that's b/c if you react to all of them the examiner will know you are using countermeasures. So, choose one of your liking and really over reeact
3) I think they useually use a Relevent/Irrelevent type of test nowadays
I'm not sure but this from what i have read
Posted by Guest
- Feb 21, 2003, 10:14 PMSince some of the more experienced (and intelligent) posters appear to be caught on the previous thread, I thought I would add three quick questions - sorry to somewhat stray here. I will be taking a pre-employment poly in the next few weeks (city PD), and I was curious about the following:
1) After what might be an intensive pre-interview I understand that the examiner will first review all of the questions he has "composed" from your interview prior to asking them on the machine. And from everything I have read, it indicates that there will only be between 8 - 12 questions. Is this accurate? and if so, why so limited?
2) I have also seen a recent post regarding countermeasures on the poly and the fact that the individual stated you should limit your use to only one control question. If one were employing CMs, why would it be best to identify only one control question and respond with excitement versus several if you are definite about the difference between the relevant and control questions?
3) In municipal PDs, which type of test would you think is most common? CQT? or MQT? or ??
I tried to find info on this, but most of what is posted doesn't touch much on these areas and generally pertains to the FBI or CIA poly - I am interested in info on a city PD poly. Thanks all!
1) After what might be an intensive pre-interview I understand that the examiner will first review all of the questions he has "composed" from your interview prior to asking them on the machine. And from everything I have read, it indicates that there will only be between 8 - 12 questions. Is this accurate? and if so, why so limited?
2) I have also seen a recent post regarding countermeasures on the poly and the fact that the individual stated you should limit your use to only one control question. If one were employing CMs, why would it be best to identify only one control question and respond with excitement versus several if you are definite about the difference between the relevant and control questions?
3) In municipal PDs, which type of test would you think is most common? CQT? or MQT? or ??
I tried to find info on this, but most of what is posted doesn't touch much on these areas and generally pertains to the FBI or CIA poly - I am interested in info on a city PD poly. Thanks all!