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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Burger
- Jun 14, 2001, 06:28 PMQuote from: Fred F. on May 16, 2001, 10:24 PM
The point I am making is that the "release of liability", in my opinion, gives the polygrapher "carte blanche" to do whatever their hearts desire because you have no way of directly seeking retribution against them.
Fred, in my experience having dealt with "release of liability" forms over the years, the things are not worth the paper they are written on. Polygraph examiners (maybe a few exceptions) are required to be bonded as part of their licensing procedure. The bond is for protection stemming from a lawsuit brought against the examiner, etc., the way I understand it. The release merely is another part of the mind game to convince the examinee that they must "submit" and regardless of the outcome can do nothing about it. America doesn't work that way... at least not all of it... yet. Polygraph needs to be in the museum, not in the tax funded police agencies.
Posted by BUSE1
- May 24, 2001, 02:32 AMWell, I just took my second poly today and I PASSED! Thank God. I'm finally back on the track towards my goal. I barely used counter-measures. I used the anal puck once or twice and it worked like a charm. 
Posted by Fred F.
- May 19, 2001, 12:00 AMBuse1
I certainly hope you have studied "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector" before you go to agency #2.
Being knowledgable and informed are key to passing your "exam".
Wheather or not you choose to employ countermeasures is up to you. Nate passed because the "examiner" wasn't able to employ any "extraction tactics" because Nate let him know that he was informed.
Be on top, knowledge is power.
Good Luck
Fred F.
I certainly hope you have studied "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector" before you go to agency #2.
Being knowledgable and informed are key to passing your "exam".
Wheather or not you choose to employ countermeasures is up to you. Nate passed because the "examiner" wasn't able to employ any "extraction tactics" because Nate let him know that he was informed.
Be on top, knowledge is power.
Good Luck
Fred F.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 18, 2001, 04:47 AMIt's good for you that the outcome of your first polygraph interrogation was "inconclusive" and not "deception indicated." You can expect to have a pre-test interview in your re-test. I have no way of knowing whether you will have to fill out a lengthy pre-test questionnaire a second time. You may well have to, but this should be the least of your concerns at this point.
Posted by BUSE1
- May 18, 2001, 04:11 AMI dont want to give too much info, but this gentlemen that I met today made a phone call and found out for me what the problem with my poly was. His buddy told him that it was inconclusive. Thats probably why they're sending me to another agency. Is that a good thing and will I most likely have to retake the whole thing again? 
Posted by 3232
- May 18, 2001, 01:39 AMHas anyone had to re-take their polygraph and at the same time have their background investigation going?
Posted by Fred F.
- May 16, 2001, 10:24 PMNate,
You are absolutely correct!
The point I am making is that the "release of liability", in my opinion, gives the polygrapher "carte blanche" to do whatever their hearts desire because you have no way of directly seeking retribution against them.
Theoretically, if the polygrapher finds soemthing in your jacket that he deems to be"unsuitable", he has "failed" you before you ever get strapped in. This might be far-fetched but you never know.
The whole idea of this "professional" making you sign a paper that basically gives someone that unconditional freedom makes me wonder.
Fred F.
You are absolutely correct!
The point I am making is that the "release of liability", in my opinion, gives the polygrapher "carte blanche" to do whatever their hearts desire because you have no way of directly seeking retribution against them.
Theoretically, if the polygrapher finds soemthing in your jacket that he deems to be"unsuitable", he has "failed" you before you ever get strapped in. This might be far-fetched but you never know.
The whole idea of this "professional" making you sign a paper that basically gives someone that unconditional freedom makes me wonder.
Fred F.
Posted by Nate
- May 16, 2001, 01:11 PM
FRED:"One question I want to ask is are you required to sign a "release of liability" that frees the "examiner" from any retribution?"
During my last polygraph test in which I passed, when presented with the "release of liability" I jokingly asked, "do I have to sign this" the examiner said no, but whispered "you and I both know what the police department will do if you don't so......". He was probably right. I know some say to refuse to sign this but I can see the examiner failing you anyhow or the Police Department not hiring you do to lack of cooperation problems/inability to follow orders. My advice (and my advice only) is to just play the game, but better than they do!
Posted by 3241
- May 16, 2001, 01:42 AMWhen I took the polygraph I was told I passed, but then it got kicked back by the person who does quality control. Polygrapher told me that my charts were "no comment" or something along those lines, but that I had to re-take it. Second time he said again that I passed. And I am now awating for the results. Any of you been in the same situation and what was the outcome?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 15, 2001, 03:57 AMTo view and print The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is free. You'll find a link to Adobe's download site at the bottom of the AntiPolygraph.org publications page.
Posted by BUSE1
- May 15, 2001, 01:21 AMDidn't log was me.
Posted by didn't log
- May 15, 2001, 12:00 AMFred, I did sign a release of liability. And their not just using a different polygrapher, their using a different agency. They must be using alot of the tax payers money for this bull.Its funny that I acually have to worry about some stupid machine which holds the fate of my career. I feel that I'm worrying like if I did something or like if I'm hiding something when in reality I haven't done anything wrong. Its ridiculous! I know that I will make a great police officer and will serve my community right. By the way, I've tried to download the book and all I get is exel with a bunch of codes. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks.
Posted by Fred F.
- May 14, 2001, 10:37 PMBUSE1,
You should heed Goerge's advice. Read "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector". You will gain a considerable amount of useful knowledge to what a polygrapher does and how to "counter" certain tactics they employ.
In my opinion, you will probably have a different examiner, What this examiner will focus on is anybody's guess. If you have to fill out the forms again, just do it. Being on top of the game is the key to success. One question I want to ask is are you required to sign a "release of liability" that frees the "examiner" from any retribution?
The bottom line is being prepared and having insight. Read the material on this site, it's free and will only cost you a few dollars if you want to have it bound. By using Mr. Williams material and this sites material, you increase your chances of passing.
Good Luck
Fred F.
You should heed Goerge's advice. Read "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector". You will gain a considerable amount of useful knowledge to what a polygrapher does and how to "counter" certain tactics they employ.
In my opinion, you will probably have a different examiner, What this examiner will focus on is anybody's guess. If you have to fill out the forms again, just do it. Being on top of the game is the key to success. One question I want to ask is are you required to sign a "release of liability" that frees the "examiner" from any retribution?
The bottom line is being prepared and having insight. Read the material on this site, it's free and will only cost you a few dollars if you want to have it bound. By using Mr. Williams material and this sites material, you increase your chances of passing.
Good Luck
Fred F.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 14, 2001, 01:45 PMBUSE1,
I don't know whether it is common for agencies that use contractors to administer polygraph examinations to have re-tests done by a different contractor. The fact that you've been told to report to a different polygrapher does not seem to me to be any cause for alarm.
Regarding the use of countermeasures, I highly recommend that in addition to Doug Williams' "How to Sting the Polygraph," you also download and read Chapters 3, 4, and 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. (It's free.) We discuss several countermeasures not mentioned in Doug Williams' manual which you may wish to consider (if you do decide to employ countermeasures). I also think we do a better job of explaining how to recognize "control" questions (which is key to the successful employment of countermeasures).
Regarding whether your polygrapher will be as pleasant as the first time, again, it's impossible to say. Be prepared.
When you cleared your throat and coughed during your first polygraph interrogation, you may have created physiological responses that in the polygraph trade are referred to as "artifacts." My understanding is that when artifacts such as might be caused by coughing or other movement occur, it is common for the polygrapher not to score the question on which the artifact occured. Instead, the polygrapher will ask an irrelevant question (to serve as a buffer), and then re-ask the question on which the artifact occured. Under these circumstances, the artifact(s) would not affect the scoring of the polygraph chart.
I don't know whether it is common for agencies that use contractors to administer polygraph examinations to have re-tests done by a different contractor. The fact that you've been told to report to a different polygrapher does not seem to me to be any cause for alarm.
Regarding the use of countermeasures, I highly recommend that in addition to Doug Williams' "How to Sting the Polygraph," you also download and read Chapters 3, 4, and 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. (It's free.) We discuss several countermeasures not mentioned in Doug Williams' manual which you may wish to consider (if you do decide to employ countermeasures). I also think we do a better job of explaining how to recognize "control" questions (which is key to the successful employment of countermeasures).
Regarding whether your polygrapher will be as pleasant as the first time, again, it's impossible to say. Be prepared.
When you cleared your throat and coughed during your first polygraph interrogation, you may have created physiological responses that in the polygraph trade are referred to as "artifacts." My understanding is that when artifacts such as might be caused by coughing or other movement occur, it is common for the polygrapher not to score the question on which the artifact occured. Instead, the polygrapher will ask an irrelevant question (to serve as a buffer), and then re-ask the question on which the artifact occured. Under these circumstances, the artifact(s) would not affect the scoring of the polygraph chart.
Posted by BUSE1
- May 14, 2001, 12:56 PMI've recieved a letter stating that I have to go in to clear up a problem area on my first poly. The weird thing is that the place I have to go to is on the opposite side of town from the first place I went. I figured that I would go to the same place. They seem to be two completely different companies. Is that usually what happens when you have to go in for a second time? Should I use the same counter measures I used the first time?(I've read the Sting Technique) Will they most likely not be as nice as they were the first time? Oh, I cleared my throat and coughed a few times during the test, could that have changed things on my poly exam? Thanks.